Search FAQ

Login | Register


All times are UTC [ DST ]


It is currently 22 Oct 2018




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 70 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message

Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: heres something, (spoilers)
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 21 May 2010
Notes left: 1241
Quote:
I don't understand why it bothers people so bad that there's fans that wanna think this.


I don't think it's really a problem..it just becomes an issue if this thing takes a life of it's own and folks want to push aspects of it as canon with the original universe,...it just doesn't work.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: heres something, (spoilers)
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 29 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2301
AuraTwilight wrote:
helldescent wrote:
Harry never mentions Dr. Kaufman.
Its not illegal at all for a therapist to deal with a patients parents. Whats illegal is sharing information about the patient to the parents.


A Therapist isn't supposed to counsel someone he has a personal connection to because it can get in the way of an unbiased therapy and cause the therapist to sympathize too much with the client..

Exactly. As a therapist, there would be no bias. If there were bias, then its illegal.
My mom is allowed to talk to my psychologist, just not about my issues. Thats not illegal.

_________________
[img]http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee419/silentfog/signature.jpg[/img]


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: heres something, (spoilers)
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 27 Aug 2010
Notes left: 2249
Last seen at: The Rabbit Hole
@clips *sage nod*

I don't really believe it myself, I'm just saying I can understand how somebody could. It was a little confusing beating SM for the first time, and I sort of thought it for a little bit.

*shrugs*
at least it's better than everyone bickering over fungo? Idk. As far as trying to fit SM into the canon, this is the ONLY way it possibly could....at all. As much of a long shot as it is, it's the only way to fit it in.

_________________
The above user visits this forum *very infrequently.* If you need any type of response or answer from her, she may or may not be able to provide it in a timely manner.

Thank you for understanding. <3

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21367&p=674128#p674128


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: heres something, (spoilers)
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11380
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
You're better than this-now you're just stretching. What does that have to with anything?


1) James never went psycho and killed Mary. SH2 is an entirely fictional account that Harry Mason from SM wrote about his friend James Sunderland. However, Mary read it and it caused a fight, causing them to need marriage counselling. :3

2) I'm obviously fucking around, dude. I'm trying to prove the point that trying to connect the two universes is stupid as hell.

Quote:
Ok, give me an example of how Dr. K mark 1 and Dr. K mark 2 are similar, other than they both have the same name. It doesn't require being psychic when they aren't the same person. It's a coincidence.


Alright, then Harry isn't Harry, Cheryl isn't Cheryl, Lisa isn't Lisa, Dahlia isn't Dahlia, and Cybil isn't Cybil. The car crash dying dream actually happened to a different Harry Mason with the same name with a daughter of the same name.

You can't pick and choose, dude.

Quote:
All the flashbacks at the beginning could've also been part of the fantasy.


Why in the HELL would Harry fantasize that Cheryl isn't his biological daughter? WHY? Why would he ever fucking do that?

Quote:
Exactly. As a therapist, there would be no bias. If there were bias, then its illegal.
My mom is allowed to talk to my psychologist, just not about my issues. Thats not illegal.


You have absolutely no grasp of what I'm trying to tell you. If Michael Kauffman has a personal connection to Harry Mason, any connection at all of any sort of weight, he is legally not allowed to counsel Cheryl because he does not have an unbiased perspective; he knew Harry and his own emotions towards the man, if any, might interfere in his counselling. Do you get it, now?

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: heres something, (spoilers)
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 27 Aug 2010
Notes left: 2249
Last seen at: The Rabbit Hole
AuraTwilight wrote:
Why in the HELL would Harry fantasize that Cheryl isn't his biological daughter? WHY? Why would he ever fucking do that?


I just about pissed myself laughing at that.
Seriously, if I never liked you before, I do now. :lol:
I had this whole thing planned about Cheryl representing the only peace in his life, and she therefor had to be "from somewhere else." Then I was going to get into the U.F.O. endings and everything....
Just, fuck it. Forget the whole thing. That was pure gold, and I don't want to ruin it by keeping up the charade. I just...seriously, I have no idea why that was so funny, but it so was. You get virtual cake for that one. *gives cake*

But back on topic:
Ok, helldescent. It doesn't look like we can change your mind on this matter. You get *props* for sticking it out. Can you at least tell us why it's so important to you that Shattered Memories fits into the first game? With Harry dieing and all, it's obvious that it's a different Cheryl/Heather than the first and third games. I'm pretty sure the whole thing is bust, when it comes to comparing to the other games.
I can somewhat understand where you're coming from, but I just don't understand the insistence. If it was confirmed that it's another universe, why bother? I'm sure it's a great game (I didn't play it much, myself) but I don't think they were trying to add to the 1-4 story line with it.

_________________
The above user visits this forum *very infrequently.* If you need any type of response or answer from her, she may or may not be able to provide it in a timely manner.

Thank you for understanding. <3

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21367&p=674128#p674128


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: heres something, (spoilers)
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11380
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Yay, cake. <3

I'd like to know the answer to that question, too. Why do people want to take such a strong, interesting character like Heather who had so much growth and overcame so much...and decide that she's actually a delusional, weak, and pathetic crybaby?

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: heres something, (spoilers)
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 27 Aug 2010
Notes left: 2249
Last seen at: The Rabbit Hole
^You gotta admit-depending on which ending you get, they kinda did the same to Harry as well. Not all at the same time, mind you, but we had this wonderful, loving father from the first game and they made him into possibly a drunk, pansy, or man whore.

Idunno...I don't get it either. I'm sure the game had it's own merits as a reimagining, but it seemed to insult the established "awesome" versions of said characters.

_________________
The above user visits this forum *very infrequently.* If you need any type of response or answer from her, she may or may not be able to provide it in a timely manner.

Thank you for understanding. <3

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21367&p=674128#p674128


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: heres something, (spoilers)
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 29 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2301
You have absolutely no grasp of what I'm trying to tell you. If Michael Kauffman has a personal connection to Harry Mason, any connection at all of any sort of weight, he is legally not allowed to counsel Cheryl because he does not have an unbiased perspective; he knew Harry and his own emotions towards the man, if any, might interfere in his counselling. Do you get it, now?[/quote]

Your saying that if kauffman has a connection with harry, he ( kauffman) cannot legally counsel cheryl becuase he will not have an unbiased perspective.

If this is true, then, again, as a therapist, it is his job to be unbiased. We can't assume that kauffman would be biased at all, no matter what, as its unprofessional, and illegal.

_________________
[img]http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee419/silentfog/signature.jpg[/img]


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: heres something, (spoilers)
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11380
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Just because it is unprofessional and illegal doesn't mean Kauffman can just shut off his feelings, thoughts, emotions, and opinions. He's a human being, and rather than run the risk, he'd simply just not be allowed to counsel her. It's just like how people aren't ever called to be on Jury duty for someone they know.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: heres something, (spoilers)
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 15 Jan 2005
Notes left: 7376
Last seen at: Couldn't tell you even if I tired
helldescent wrote:
You have absolutely no grasp of what I'm trying to tell you. If Michael Kauffman has a personal connection to Harry Mason, any connection at all of any sort of weight, he is legally not allowed to counsel Cheryl because he does not have an unbiased perspective; he knew Harry and his own emotions towards the man, if any, might interfere in his counselling. Do you get it, now?
Your saying that if kauffman has a connection with harry, he ( kauffman) cannot legally counsel cheryl becuase he will not have an unbiased perspective.

If this is true, then, again, as a therapist, it is his job to be unbiased. We can't assume that kauffman would be biased at all, no matter what, as its unprofessional, and illegal.


It isn't illegal. Let's play on the idea that Kaufmann and Harry were best buds, then Harry died and Dahlia went to Kaufmann and asked him to help her daughter out. Kaufmann would take the case in a heartbeat because he would feel that he owed it to his old friend. It has happened a lot, both fictionally and in the real world.

BUT, if Cheryl was sent to therapy because of a court mandated appointments, then she wouldn't be sent to Kaufmann because Kaufmann would admit that he was friends w/ her father while her father was still alive and would probably refer Cheryl and Dahlia to another colleague of his. But we know Cheryl was not court mandated to therapy, because of what Kaufmann says to her:

"Just showing up shows your commitment to the process."

Not, "Oh, you chose this instead of Jail time. That is a good sign." He points out that it is Cheryl's free will and want to get better that brought her into his office.

But all of this is moot, because Kaufmann didn't know Harry. That is the point. This game takes place in a completely different universe from SH1. Kaufmann and Harry never crossed paths outside Cheryl's mind in SH: SM.

_________________
Image
The war has begun:
Use your voice today before you no longer have one tomorrow.
World Toilet Organization
I'm like a circle, I'M TOO GOOD FOR CORNERS!!!


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: heres something, (spoilers)
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11380
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
^You gotta admit-depending on which ending you get, they kinda did the same to Harry as well. Not all at the same time, mind you, but we had this wonderful, loving father from the first game and they made him into possibly a drunk, pansy, or man whore.


Sorry, I overlooked this. Harry's treatment isn't at all comparable because it's not the same Harry Mason. There is no continuity between the two men.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: heres something, (spoilers)
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 15 Jan 2005
Notes left: 7376
Last seen at: Couldn't tell you even if I tired
^There is basically nothing other than their ethnicity and their names. : / Oh, and the fact that they are looking for their daughter, but even that doesn't really count.

_________________
Image
The war has begun:
Use your voice today before you no longer have one tomorrow.
World Toilet Organization
I'm like a circle, I'M TOO GOOD FOR CORNERS!!!


Top
   
 

Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: heres something, (spoilers)
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 05 Dec 2010
Notes left: 451
Climax could've made it easy for the fans by making it a sequel to silent hill 3...it could have been cheryl dealing with harry's death in silent hilll 3... shattered memories fits into the bad ending of Sh1...an alternate universe where Harry died and cheryl continues to be plagued by the memories of her father...

_________________
Now I Know, The Real Reason Why I Came To This Town....I Wonder....What Was I Afraid Of? Without You..I've Got Nothing...Now, We Can Be Together Again.....Mary.....


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: heres something, (spoilers)
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 26 Mar 2010
Notes left: 1879
Last seen at: Los Angeles
PoemOfTheLastMoment wrote:
Climax could've made it easy for the fans by making it a sequel to silent hill 3...

Oh man, that would be the complete opposite of easy. Can you imagine how many people would flat-out lose their minds if someone told them one of the new games was a direct sequel to one of the "holy trinity?"

The storm of fan rage would be unfathomable.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: heres something, (spoilers)
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11380
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Not to mention people completely flipping their shit over the badass, relatively stable Heather being reduced to a whiny, blubbering bitch with daddy issues.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Top
   
 

Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: heres something, (spoilers)

Missing since: 07 Mar 2007
Notes left: 541
Last seen at: South Carolina, USA
PoemOfTheLastMoment wrote:
shattered memories fits into the bad ending of Sh1


Not really. In both Bad endings
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Cheryl dies, and it's never really stated whether Harry dies or not in the Bad+ ending, but it's irrelevant because Cheryl's gone.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: heres something, (spoilers)
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
MariaRising wrote:
PoemOfTheLastMoment wrote:
shattered memories fits into the bad ending of Sh1


Not really. In both Bad endings
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Cheryl dies, and it's never really stated whether Harry dies or not in the Bad+ ending, but it's irrelevant because Cheryl's gone.


Plus,
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Cheryl is Harry's ADOPTED daughter in Silent Hill, and she's his biological daughter--with Dahlia as his wife--in Shattered Memories. Both of those are factual in-game, and thus contradict themselves.

_________________
Image
Beyond the Joystick - game reviews, plot recaps, and more
http://beyond-the-joystick.blogspot.com - Also on Tumblr!


Top
   
 

Gravedigger
 Post subject:

Missing since: 07 Mar 2007
Notes left: 541
Last seen at: South Carolina, USA
^Precisely :D
But at any rate, a direct sequel to SH3 would've been kind of like SH:SM (with some obvious factual and storyline differences).


Top
   
 

Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: heres something, (spoilers)
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 05 Dec 2010
Notes left: 451
The bad ending of silent hill 1 shows that harry had a dying hallucination...so everything up to that point was a construct of his imagination....that means cheryl could have been his daughter in real life...

_________________
Now I Know, The Real Reason Why I Came To This Town....I Wonder....What Was I Afraid Of? Without You..I've Got Nothing...Now, We Can Be Together Again.....Mary.....


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: heres something, (spoilers)
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
PoemOfTheLastMoment wrote:
The bad ending of silent hill 1 shows that harry had a dying hallucination...so everything up to that point was a construct of his imagination....that means cheryl could have been his daughter in real life...


No.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
We're shown a cutscene before the game begins (read: before Harry even thinks about going to Silent Hill) of Harry and his wife finding a baby (Cheryl). Even if you handwave that and say his wife could be Dahlia (despite the huge design differences), the fact is that this takes place BEFORE Harry enters Silent Hill.


Keep in mind, the stuff in that spoiler tag is referring to Silent Hill 1.

Also...

[Reveal] Spoiler:
It was said before, but it doesn't make much logical sense for Harry to suddenly see Cheryl as his adopted daughter if she was his biological one. One could argue that since it's a delusion he has no control over it, but it's a small bit more in favour of "Silent Hill and Shattered Memories are two different continuities" besides what I stated above.

_________________
Image
Beyond the Joystick - game reviews, plot recaps, and more
http://beyond-the-joystick.blogspot.com - Also on Tumblr!


Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 70 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: