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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Weird question about Dahlia
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2015
Notes left: 118
Last seen at: Pennsylvania
So I haven't played this game in about 2 years, but..

Did Young Dahlia live on the boat ( think it's called the Orpheus?)
We know that Cheryl lives above the Green Lion Pawn Shop ( I believe where the older dahlia lives now with her), and Lisa lives (or lived) at the Nightingale Apartments, but where did Young Dahlia live?

I know at one point, Dahlia, Harry and Cheryl all lived on Levin Street in a house I believe, but maybe moved above the pawn shop after harry, ya know...not trying to spoil anything here...

Anyone else thought about this?

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Weird question about Dahlia
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Young Dahlia jacked the boat like a punk. She lived at the Green Lion Pawn Shop because the two Dahlias are the same.

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I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Weird question about Dahlia
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2015
Notes left: 118
Last seen at: Pennsylvania
I must of missed the part where she does that.

So Dahlia has always lived above the pawn shop the whole time?
I mean, I know the young Dahlia maybe just a figment of Cheryl's mind, but it's kinda confusing...

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Weird question about Dahlia
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2007
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Not sure where the actual young Dahlia lived, myself. I guess I never thought of it as terribly important, given young Dahlia's role in the story.

Even the presumption that the younger Dahlia looked like that, which is based mostly on Harry's not complaining (what with his scrambled brains, and all) might be presuming too much.

But, yeah, Dahlia took the boat for her Hot 'n' Steamy Harry Cruise. Did such a thing actually happen? I doubt it. Is it something the younger Dahlia would've done? Maybe. By that point in the story, her role's already shifted, so the logic or historicity of it never really bothered me.

Punk girls were poor in the 70s (as opposed to now, where they're rich and idle), so she could've lived on the bad side of town. On the other hand, she idolizes the retarded romance of Sid and Nancy, so she could also be a latecomer, after punk began to gentrify (much like rap has). So, she could've also been a rebellious girl from the better side of town. Considering her thematic confluence as a character, I might be more inclined to bet on that.

But that same confluence also keeps me from being too sure of that,
[Reveal] Spoiler:
because a modern girl like Heather would only know of the Sid/Nancy legend, thanks to the Gary Oldman movie, unless she were specifically a Johnny Rotten fan, or put in a lot of research into the subject. In any case, young Dahlia and Heather are so intertwined that it's very difficult to separate them by individual characteristics.

Though, I think we can conclude that Harry and Dahlia were into punk rock as opposed to, I dunno, Kansas. Being into the same music (and each other's bodies) is the sort of thing young love is made of. The manner in which they encountered punk, especially since they're not British and therefore couldn't have come to the Pistols at the beginning, is an important detail that's completely omitted, because it plays into which side of the tracks they were on.

There's probably a fair amount of information that can be gleaned indirectly from details like these. Nothing too conclusive, but interesting, nonetheless.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Weird question about Dahlia
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2015
Notes left: 118
Last seen at: Pennsylvania
^
Dahlia did seem to be a "true punk" rather than just going through a phase. Her personality fully matched the punk lifestyle.

The fact that she even knew who Sid&Nancy were, tells me that she had indeed listened to the Sex Pistols...Most "punks" nowadays are just fashionists (if that is even a word) rather than living the real punk lifestyle, and have no clue who the Sex Pistols, The Ramones, Misfits, or L7 are.
And these same "fashionists" don't even really listen to Nirvana (aside from knowing Smells Like Teen Spirit), a band who were HEAVILY inspired by punk music.

Basically, I'm saying that Dahlia is a badass punk chick through and through.


As far as whether Dahlia actually looked and acted like that in real life ( in her younger life I mean)?

I would say yeah I think she did. Cheryl could've seen pictures of her mother when she was younger, dressed like that, which would of explained why we see the Young Dahlia as we do ( all of the variations are spunky, flirty and have short hair).

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Weird question about Dahlia
     
         
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Missing since: 26 Dec 2004
Notes left: 2560
Last seen at: Insomnia land, where I am Queen!
I could be way off, but I just assumed that the young Dahlia we see in the game didn't exist. Harry is looking for his daughter at a high school, and then encounters 2 young women in Michelle and Dahlia. Due to your choices changing how other characters appear in the game, I figured that Dahlia was always her proper adult age, but since Harry wasn't quite ready to see her that way because she would be so much older, he saw her as young.

Since young Dahlia is really old Dahlia, she lives above the pawn shop. Maybe in their younger years, she and Harry did steal a boat for sexy fun times, or maybe even lived on the boat before they became parents.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Weird question about Dahlia
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2015
Notes left: 118
Last seen at: Pennsylvania
^

Everything in the game is manifested by Cheryl, and the reason why we see Dahlia as a younger woman comes from some source in which Cheryl used to manifest her with (whether this source was a photo of Dahlia when she was younger, or something Cheryl had overheard growing up, etc).

It's kind of like how Alessa conjured up the creatures in the first Silent Hill game from her books, stories, and other mementos. ( an example being the Pteradactyl monsters, that originated from her book of The Lost World by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle)

There has to be a real source in order for something to be manifested. But that is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

But I hope that helps :)

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Weird question about Dahlia
     
         
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Missing since: 26 Dec 2004
Notes left: 2560
Last seen at: Insomnia land, where I am Queen!
Cheryl had an ideal hero version of Harry in her mind, and saw her mom as the villain. Harry doesn't even seem to remember who his wife was to begin with, so maybe seeing her as she should be would make him remember everything and cease to exist?

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Gaming For Honor, playing video games to raise money for Wounded Warriors Project.
The Anime Cauldron is taking a nap.
Peachy's Predictions on Tumblr
Peachy's Predictions. on LiveJournal


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Weird question about Dahlia
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2015
Notes left: 118
Last seen at: Pennsylvania
PeachySakura24 wrote:
Cheryl had an ideal hero version of Harry in her mind, and saw her mom as the villain. Harry doesn't even seem to remember who his wife was to begin with, so maybe seeing her as she should be would make him remember everything and cease to exist?

^

I don't think he would remember anything at all, it would be Cheryl who would need to remember.

The Harry we see in the game is created by Cheryl's mind, her memories, and how she wants her dad to appear.... like you said, Cheryl saw her Dad as a hero, so we see Harry in the game being heroic, persistently searching for his lost little daughter..

As far as why he doesn't remember who Dahlia is, that could be because, since Cheryl is estranged with her mother, which is emulated through Harry, who doesn't know who Dahlia is at all. (to put it simply, since Cheryl resents her Mother, she creates Harry to not even bother knowing/recognizing her at all in the game).

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Weird question about Dahlia
     
         
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Missing since: 26 Dec 2004
Notes left: 2560
Last seen at: Insomnia land, where I am Queen!
Just to make the game more fun for me, I like to link this game with the original by pretending that our version of Harry is the aftermath of the Jeep ending. His spirit will keep travelling Silent Hill until he finds his daughter, and then he will have peace at last. If you have ever watched Ghost Whisperer, it is like that for me. Harry has been in a state of limbo until Cheryl's therapy sessions "woke" him, and now her suffering is guiding him to her, and once he sees she is ok(or will be), he can move on. They had to remove the scene with Jennifer Love Hewitt due to copyright issues. :D

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Gaming For Honor, playing video games to raise money for Wounded Warriors Project.
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Peachy's Predictions on Tumblr
Peachy's Predictions. on LiveJournal


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Weird question about Dahlia
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2015
Notes left: 118
Last seen at: Pennsylvania
That actually makes sense, I never saw it seen that way before...
Now I will have to replay the game with this in mind :)

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Weird question about Dahlia
     
         
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Missing since: 12 May 2009
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PeachySakura24 wrote:
Just to make the game more fun for me, I like to link this game with the original by pretending that our version of Harry is the aftermath of the Jeep ending. His spirit will keep travelling Silent Hill until he finds his daughter, and then he will have peace at last. If you have ever watched Ghost Whisperer, it is like that for me. Harry has been in a state of limbo until Cheryl's therapy sessions "woke" him, and now her suffering is guiding him to her, and once he sees she is ok(or will be), he can move on.


This is what I always did too. I found it made the game way more interesting and for my friends who were familiar with the original game, made it so much cooler. Plus way more emotional since almost all of my friends felt like they were punched in the gut by the end of Shattered Memories.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Weird question about Dahlia
     
         
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Missing since: 26 Dec 2004
Notes left: 2560
Last seen at: Insomnia land, where I am Queen!
That train of thought made secondary playthroughs more fun for me. The first time I played the game, I was so frustrated by the Raw Shocks that I quit and didn't play again for 5 years. Once you hit the end, they make sense both in the context of this game and the original. Harry can't use weapons to save himself this time because he simply can't be saved. The only thing he can do now is find Cheryl and try to help her to heal so that he can finally find peace, and the monsters are Cheryl's way of keeping him from leaving her for good because she isn't ready.

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Gaming For Honor, playing video games to raise money for Wounded Warriors Project.
The Anime Cauldron is taking a nap.
Peachy's Predictions on Tumblr
Peachy's Predictions. on LiveJournal


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Weird question about Dahlia
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2015
Notes left: 118
Last seen at: Pennsylvania
^

An interesting observation I made that points towards this, is if you listen closely to the raw shocks, they say "don't run!" in that weird reverb sound..as if to say "Don't leave me", like how you are saying.

I can't seem to find a clip of it, but I noticed it whenever I played the game.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Weird question about Dahlia
     
         
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Missing since: 26 Dec 2004
Notes left: 2560
Last seen at: Insomnia land, where I am Queen!
I am replaying all of the games with my son, so when we hit Shattered Memories, I will keep an ear out for that. I never heard them say anything, but it makes sense to me that they would.

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Gaming For Honor, playing video games to raise money for Wounded Warriors Project.
The Anime Cauldron is taking a nap.
Peachy's Predictions on Tumblr
Peachy's Predictions. on LiveJournal


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Weird question about Dahlia
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2015
Notes left: 118
Last seen at: Pennsylvania
^

Hey Peachy! Long time, did you ever get around to hearing that audio?

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