No akira?

[Patman]

You have completely missed my point. Well done.

I didn' t miss your point, I just didn' t quite agree. Remember that ? :

I'm pretty sure it's blatantly obvious most of the time when people are sharing their opinions. I don't think anyone is under the impression their opinions are fact.

You can define SH2 the way you want, horror, romance, whatever you name it. My point was rather that the sound is at least as much important as the pictures, most directors agree that emotions and moods are mostly conveyed by the sound. The crappy Benny Hill video is all I could find on you tube to illustrate that point.
Yes, we could play SH2 without sound and still enjoy it, SH2 is pure genius for reasons that have nothing to do with it' s music, but it would still lessen the experience nonetheless, and not just a little. SH games are moody, spleeny, atmospheric game, we' re not talking about playing Tetris without sound.

I had to play SH2 without sound on some occasions because people around me were sleeping, but after a while I decided it was best not to play it at all, might as well wait daytime ans enjoy it fully the way it' s meant to be.

[NanayaShiki]

I never said the music wasn't important. I said it isn't the most important thing. Playing SH2 without the music is closer to the full SH2 experience than listening to the music without anything else. Neither will get you the full experience, but there are more important things in SH than the music, as good as it is.

I still don't see how you can respond to that with a video of a speedy cutscene from SH3 with goofy music as proof that I am wrong, so I still don't think you fully understand what I was trying to say.

[Dragonforce1080p]

Personally I think that the role of music is severely underrated in many types of visual media. Certain horror movies and games. This is just my own personal view, but if you were to ask me what is the most important element in making SH2 succeed as a game, I would say the soundtrack. Some people would probably say the story, and while certainly the story was the thing that made it stand out in people's minds even above other SH games, I think it's the soundtrack which makes everything gel. If you think about some of the most memorable scenes from SH2, like the scene right after James watches the video in the hotel, the music playing plays a tremendous part in selling the emotion of that scene. And that's not even mentioning how atmosphere is so heavily dependent on sound.

Anyway... unlike many people in this thread (apparently) I am NOT a music expert, so perhaps this is just my naivety. But why are some people complaining about Akira using samples? What does that have to do with how good of a composer he is? Samples are just, what, pre-recorded sounds, right? So what? Does he need to create all sound from instruments he has played himself? This is the digital age, and it seems to me like samples are just another type of instrument for a composer to use, in a sense. Or am I missing something?

^^^^ THIS, whats wrong with using samples? There IS such thing as sample based synths you know right? Kontakt from native instruments is one. I'll ask again, whats wrong with using a synth?... or a sample based synth in this case. Tillerman said it best, " Samples are just, what, pre-recorded sounds, right? So what? Does he need to create all sound from instruments he has played himself? " It's like saying people who play the piano are lesser musicians because they don't create their own instruments. It's not like he takes big chunks of other peoples music. So I just don't see what the problem is.

[Patman]

I still don't think you fully understand what I was trying to say.

You' ve said it thrice now, I think I got it.

The game is NOT mediocre without it.

there are more important things in SH than the music, as good as it is.

My point was that the story, atmosphere, symbolism, and characters are the main reason the game is good.

Which I translated as follows :

SH2 is pure genius for reasons that have nothing to do with it' s music

You' re not gonna say it a fifth time, are you ? If you can' t help the urge please just PM me.

I still don't see how you can respond to that with a video

I didn' t respond to you with my video I was trying to illustrate MY point. Even if the genius of SH games comes from the game mechanics and the scenario I still wouldn' t play them without music. I just give it more credit than you do, that' s MY point of view.
You think that atmosphere is one of SH strong points ? Well I think that atmosphere is mostly conveyed by the music. I just wanted to illustrate that. If I had found a non-speedy video I would have chosen it instead.

To get back on topic I don' t really care that Akira is gone, all I want is a soundtrack which conveys the right moods at the right time.

[NanayaShiki]

Which I translated as follows :

SH2 is pure genius for reasons that have nothing to do with it' s music

That's not what I was saying so, no, you DON'T get it. But trying to have this conversation with you is like pulling teeth, so go ahead and tell yourself that you've "won" if it makes you feel better.

You' re not gonna say it a fifth time, are you ? If you can' t help the urge please just PM me.

Dude, you are the one who replied to something I said months ago with some little rant and you have replied to every response I have made since. Don't try and push this all on me.

I didn' t respond to you with my video I was trying to illustrate MY point. Even if the genius of SH games comes from the game mechanics and the scenario I still wouldn' t play them without music.

Of course. Because, you know, I never said that you could or should play them without music.

But, yeah, let's drop this. It's ridiculous and it's from months ago and I haven't gave a crap since months ago.

[Ben Trovato]

Everybody uses samples these days. Even Lady Gaga, Taylor Swift, you name it. Music - like Hollywood - is going to run out of ideas. Which is why we have samples.

And how about REAL musicians and bands, like, say, Opeth, King Crimson, Porcupine Tree?

Geez...

Running out of ideas... that's why we have samples...

That's got to be one of the dumbest thing I've read here, and that says a lot...

[Tillerman]

Playing SH2 without the music is closer to the full SH2 experience than listening to the music without anything else.

I don't know. Personally I think that playing SH2 without sound is so far removed from the experience that it's basically equivalent to just listening to the music. But that's just my opinion.

[NanayaShiki]

Playing SH2 without the music is closer to the full SH2 experience than listening to the music without anything else.

I don't know. Personally I think that playing SH2 without sound is so far removed from the experience that it's basically equivalent to just listening to the music. But that's just my opinion.

That's fine. I was never trying to say that playing SH2 without the music is going to be enjoyable. The music is definitely important to the experience, I just don't agree that it is the number one most important thing, and you gotta give credit to the story writers and artists for crafting the game that the music compliments.

But this is really becoming ridiculous and annoying, both to me and (I am sure) everyone else reading it. As far as I am concerned, this conversation ended months ago so I will probably not reply to anything else about this.

[VIVIsect]

There IS such thing as sample based synths you know right? Kontakt from native instruments is one. I'll ask again, whats wrong with using a synth?... or a sample based synth in this case.

Did you bother reading my response to you on the previous page? First off, no one even mentioned synths in the first place. Secondly, there IS a difference between a synthesizer and a sampler, "you know right". One generates sound. One plays back .wav samples. Kontakt is a sampler. Not a synth.

Anyway. This conversation is pointless. If people wish to consider Yamaoka a "genius" for throwing a few samples into a sequencer and hitting "play", be my guest.

[Julius]

Anyway. This conversation is pointless. If people wish to consider Yamaoka a "genius" for throwing a few samples into a sequencer and hitting "play", be my guest.

I don't think you should speak for why people like anything, but yeah it's pointless to try and change peoples opinion on it and is also pretty selfish.
I guess on topic, I think Daniel will do a fine job so I'm not too concerned that Akira is gone.

[Tillerman]

As far as I am concerned, this conversation ended months ago so I will probably not reply to anything else about this.

Sorry.

Anyway. This conversation is pointless. If people wish to consider Yamaoka a "genius" for throwing a few samples into a sequencer and hitting "play", be my guest.

Well, you make it sound like he didn't do much of anything. Perhaps you have more knowledge about all the specifics but I do find that hard to believe. I do think the final product is "genius." If it was lifted wholesale from other sources, then I guess those other sources should get the credit and not Akira, but if it's a bunch of sounds from all over the place that was put together into a coherent soundtrack, then I think Akira deserves the "genius" label. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Dragonforce1080p]

There IS such thing as sample based synths you know right? Kontakt from native instruments is one. I'll ask again, whats wrong with using a synth?... or a sample based synth in this case.

Did you bother reading my response to you on the previous page? First off, no one even mentioned synths in the first place. Secondly, there IS a difference between a synthesizer and a sampler, "you know right". One generates sound. One plays back .wav samples. Kontakt is a sampler. Not a synth.

Anyway. This conversation is pointless. If people wish to consider Yamaoka a "genius" for throwing a few samples into a sequencer and hitting "play", be my guest.

Whats wrong with playing back wave files? As i said he didn't take chunks of music from someone else. I saw your forum post, downloaded, didn't see anything that makes Akira seem any less talented. he presses any key on the keyboard it will change the tone using a specific sample. So in essence hes using samples as playable instruments. Lets say he does just loop some samples, so what? Hes looping something he played. And hes shown he can create guitar tracks as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample-based_synthesis

There's other pages besides wikipedia but you get the point.

Point is, I'm not saying hes perfect, or THE BEST, but I do believe that saying hes bad is a stretch.

[Harrys_Girl]

The main gripe people have is that Silent Hill is not cookie cutter. Sampled music is. Akira was praised as a musical genius because he provided (what everyone thought was) atypical arrangements suited to the game, but it turns out he didn't. He used cookie cutters on an atypical game. It was kind of like loving grandma's homemade pies and finding out yr.s later that she bought all pre-made ingredients, threw it together in a bowl, baked at 375F for 45 min.s and served it for Christmas. You don't hate her you just feel a little lied to for having raved about your grandma's famous homemade pies then have to tell the friend you promised the recipe to, that your grandma was using Betty Crocker. It is kind of an embarrassing revelation.

I think that the new composer may still use some samples and that is fine, but I don't think he'll be using nothing but samples. I've watched the trailer a couple times and the music is not horrible or outstanding, but the real test will come in-game. As long as it isn't like Persona3 and play the same goddamn 3 songs for the first 40hr.s of game play, I'll be happy.

[SPRINGS02]

Hey quick question, Akira produced the songs for the silent hill 2 video fukuro and the silent hill 3 video robbie the rabbit right? Were those sampled from anything? Also wasn't the i want love remix and the promise(reprise) made from scratch?

[The Adversary]

>it turns out he didn't. He used cookie cutters on an atypical game.<
He also claimed to have made everything from scratch—an act even shittier than basing the majority of his career on someone else's samples.

[Tillerman]

The main gripe people have is that Silent Hill is not cookie cutter. Sampled music is. Akira was praised as a musical genius because he provided (what everyone thought was) atypical arrangements suited to the game, but it turns out he didn't. He used cookie cutters on an atypical game. It was kind of like loving grandma's homemade pies and finding out yr.s later that she bought all pre-made ingredients, threw it together in a bowl, baked at 375F for 45 min.s and served it for Christmas. You don't hate her you just feel a little lied to for having raved about your grandma's famous homemade pies then have to tell the friend you promised the recipe to, that your grandma was using Betty Crocker. It is kind of an embarrassing revelation.

I don't think your "grandma's pies" analogy is apt. The reason why you wouldn't want a pie baked out of pre-made ingedients is because freshness matters. Fresh things taste better. It has nothing to do with originality, so there's no correlation to music. Sampled sounds don't sound worse if you didn't create them yourself.

So you say sampled music is "cookie-cutter." So your point is that a composer should get less credit if he doesn't make all the sounds himself, is that correct? I find myself disagreeing because I feel that it is the arrangement of sounds which matters; the sounds he are using are just sounds. They aren't a soundtrack by themselves. Someone has to put it together and make a coherent soundtrack out of it. It seems to me that samples are like just another instrument to be used in the digital age.

[Soulless-Shadow]

So your point is that a composer should get less credit if he doesn't make all the sounds himself, is that correct?

I think the biggest problem some people have with it is what The Adversary said. Akira claimed to have made and composed everything from scratch. I recall hearing that elsewhere, but no mention from Akira about using samples. If he had been upfront before and said that he had used samples to create some of his work, then people might not have become so disillusioned with him. I know I was a little disappointed when I first learned he mostly used samples. Of course arranging samples into decent songs also requires talent.

[simeonalo]

So your point is that a composer should get less credit if he doesn't make all the sounds himself, is that correct?

Should a master chef be looked down upon because he buys flour at a store and doesn't make it himself?

Should a pianist be considered unoriginal because he doesn't make his own songs?

Should an artist be considered bad for taking inspiration from various other artists?

Should a musician be "cut and paste" automatically if he just used sampled drum beats?

Some people overreact and just state that Akira Yamaoka is now "bad" (like a rotten egg that was once painted with little pretty Easter colors). He has talent. It's not like EVERY-SINGLE-THING he makes is sampled.

[The Adversary]

>Should a musician be "cut and paste" automatically if he just used sampled drum beats?<
He didn't just use drum beats. He used entire tracks from public domain sample CDs, put on some reverb and filters, and called it his music.

That's not brilliant.

[Harrys_Girl]

Should a master chef be looked down upon because he buys flour at a store and doesn't make it himself?

If he slaps something like "Master Chef's Homemade Blueberry Pie" on the label and later admits that he bought it in a Betty Crocker 1-2-3 box set, then yes. He is to be looked down on because he is claiming that he made the pie, that it is something he created, he took raw ingredients, and put them together in a way that no one else has thought to put them together. He didn't. He took someone else's work and presented it as his own. There is a word for it. A couple words even. Fraud, perjury, etc.

I don't think your "grandma's pies" analogy is apt. The reason why you wouldn't want a pie baked out of pre-made ingedients is because freshness matters. Fresh things taste better. It has nothing to do with originality, so there's no correlation to music. Sampled sounds don't sound worse if you didn't create them yourself.

And you want the same old, stale music? Fresh music is exactly what we want and fresh music, like fresh pies, is best when made w/ hand chosen ingredients. Not boxed, dehydrated samples. People put time and effort into homemade pies, just as the put time into homemade music.