Silent Hill Heaven
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Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."
http://silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=23222
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Author:  KiramidHead [ 02 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."

Tillerman wrote:
And there could still be autosaves for bosses, and other places where you are expected to die a lot.


This I would like. My frustration with Fatal Frame 2's ending sequence continues.

Author:  Yuki [ 02 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."

Tillerman wrote:
Yuki wrote:
I think it's just differing perspectives on horror gaming here. I'm more frightened by the atmosphere in the game than anything else. If I were to die and lose items and such, that would just frustrate me, because what if I make a dumb mistake?

Dying itself in a game is a risk; I'm scared of fighting the monsters and losing, regardless of penalty. Putting in unnecessary penalties for dying would frustrate me, not scare me.


You and I agree that atmosphere is incredibly important, and is what creates the majority of the fear. No question about it.

I just feel like a certain amount of penalties is necessary or that fear created by atmosphere is sabotaged. I'm not saying the games should be any harder than SH3. Did you feel like the penalties for dying in SH3 were unnecessary?


There were no penalties that I can recall in SH3 besides being pushed back to your save point. As far as I'm aware, that's how games usually work.

Author:  KiramidHead [ 03 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."

Okay, update. I completed Fatal Frame 2, and it was amazing. Almost worth the bullshit corridor.

Author:  CondescendingMan [ 03 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."

I must say i would love Silent hill more if it had a little bit more save points but not so few that I get my dick smashed by a hammer before I can save. I think having more frequent save points could do us well. A game can still be hard if you have a fair amount of save points. I don't want to have to reload my entire game just because I died. I really hope for boss fights you can skip the cut scene after the second go round or hades even the first. Now go ahead and stone the pariah if ye wish.

Author:  Tillerman [ 03 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."

CondescendingMan wrote:
I must say i would love Silent hill more if it had a little bit more save points but not so few that I get my dick smashed by a hammer before I can save. I think having more frequent save points could do us well. A game can still be hard if you have a fair amount of save points. I don't want to have to reload my entire game just because I died. I really hope for boss fights you can skip the cut scene after the second go round or hades even the first. Now go ahead and stone the pariah if ye wish.


No, that's okay. Would you be okay with number of save points being tied to difficulty?

Author:  clips [ 03 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."

CondescendingMan wrote:
I must say i would love Silent hill more if it had a little bit more save points but not so few that I get my dick smashed by a hammer before I can save. I think having more frequent save points could do us well. A game can still be hard if you have a fair amount of save points. I don't want to have to reload my entire game just because I died. I really hope for boss fights you can skip the cut scene after the second go round or hades even the first. Now go ahead and stone the pariah if ye wish.



I think if they programmed the game to the point to where you would just start from the spot where you died, would be better. I too hate it when games make you basically restart from your last checkpoint....games like uncharted and dead space don't do that...they simply place you in an area very close to the last place where you died.

Author:  stopped_clock [ 03 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."

But sometimes that can go horribly wrong. Bioshock for instance had those revitalisation chamber checkpoints that made the game so unbelievably easy it was ridiculous. That was literally my only issue with that game.

Author:  KiramidHead [ 03 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."

I still love SH2's save point cluster, which was pretty much code for "save here, for the love of God!"

Author:  Numb Body01 [ 03 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."

This may have already been mentioned but I'm sure difficulty levels for Downpour have already been confirmed (or was that just for the puzzles?).

Author:  stopped_clock [ 03 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."

I think it was for both combat and puzzles, which is definitely the way to go, 2 & 3 used that set up and it's a great way of tailoring the game to your preferences.

Author:  Numb Body01 [ 03 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."

A quick google search seems to suggest it's just difficulty levels for the puzzles which have been confirmed thus far.

Author:  Tillerman [ 03 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."

clips wrote:
I think if they programmed the game to the point to where you would just start from the spot where you died, would be better. I too hate it when games make you basically restart from your last checkpoint....games like uncharted and dead space don't do that...they simply place you in an area very close to the last place where you died.


Right, that's one of the reasons I hated Dead Space. I would be really depressed if the new Silent Hill did that. How could anyone possibly be scared playing it when you are literally unkillable? (And Bioshock seems to have the same problem although I haven't played very much of it.)

Author:  stopped_clock [ 03 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."

With Dead Space I was kinda glad for the overzealous autosave in the final chapters, the difficulty spike in that game was insane. (It was ok once I adjusted my play style but up to that point the game had been a walkover so I just wasn't expecting it!)

Metro 2033 completely screwed me a couple of times with autosaves, in the above-ground sections of the game if you run out of filters for your gas mask you die, and the game autosaved on me just as I ran out. That ought to teach me not to rely on autosaves really.

With Silent Hill I feel that the save points are really enough, and limiting them by difficulty level is a good idea (although would you limit the actual in game savepoints, or just limit the amount of saves you can make?) , maybe the odd autosave before bosses as a few people have mentioned.

Author:  Tillerman [ 03 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."

stopped_clock wrote:
With Silent Hill I feel that the save points are really enough, and limiting them by difficulty level is a good idea (although would you limit the actual in game savepoints, or just limit the amount of saves you can make?) , maybe the odd autosave before bosses as a few people have mentioned.


I would say the amount of save points, but you could save an unlimited number of times at each one. It's too easy to screw yourself if your amount of actual saves are limites, unless they are very generous like Resident Evil.

Another cool thing about this idea is that it makes each difficulty level a different playing experience. Too many games just make monsters do 150% damage on higher difficulty levels or whatever... that's such a shallow way of increasing difficulty. I think the more differences between the difficulty levels, the better. Make easy legitimately easy for anyone, make normal an experience most players would find fair, make hard tough but not too ridiculous, and then have an unlockable difficulty for the true hardcore.

Author:  KiramidHead [ 03 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."

There's one thing that I want: no matter the difficulty level, keep the save rooms and puzzle rooms enemy free. Also, make the enemy respawns either limited or nonexistent. If the monsters are going to be as tough as the previews indicate, I want the ability to at least make sure that they stay dead when I risk fighting them.

Author:  KageReneko [ 03 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."

Silent Hill 1 and 2 have 1 or 2 savepoints per building plus some savepoints scattered through the town, Silent Hill 3 has like 3 savepoints per building and Silent Hill 4 has just one general savepoint... 0rigins has like 2 or 3 per building and Homecoming has 1 savepoint per building (The seciond one is just before a boss)... Shattered memories allows you to save anywhere

I like how the franchise has used the savepoints, not too many, not so few... Also you always had the challenge of getting the 10 stars (In the original games) saving twice or less in all the game, ignoring the special armors, dying and using the continue option, etc... 0rigins brought the accolades instead the star ranking and Homecoming just did nothing...

I like to have freedom in my games and the idea of giving fewer savepoints in the hard modes is really stupid, would be very frustrating to reach one of the final levels in the hard mode and just waste all your efforts, tears and blood because you can't save there... That's the feature that we all hate in the classic NES and SNES games...

The savepoints were well used in the original games, if you want to save or not is up to you... Don't repeat the mistake that Climax made with Shattered Memories forcing all the players to run when some of us find the combat scarier...

Now I understand why the original games get better wioth every new game that is developed...

Author:  Tillerman [ 03 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."

KiramidHead wrote:
There's one thing that I want: no matter the difficulty level, keep the save rooms and puzzle rooms enemy free. Also, make the enemy respawns either limited or nonexistent. If the monsters are going to be as tough as the previews indicate, I want the ability to at least make sure that they stay dead when I risk fighting them.


I agree all that. Although I think it's okay for enemies to respawn if you completely leave the area and come back, just to prevent the phenomenon where you've cleared an area and now it's totally safe. Maybe even rare monsters that can spawn in certain rooms every time you enter it, so that you'll never know if an area is safe for sure.

KageReneko wrote:
I like to have freedom in my games and the idea of giving fewer savepoints in the hard modes is really stupid, would be very frustrating to reach one of the final levels in the hard mode and just waste all your efforts


Well, if you're playing hard mode, it is meant to be hard.

Author:  KiramidHead [ 04 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."

^I'm thinking more of a single room or hallway while I'm still exploring it.

Author:  Tillerman [ 04 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."

KiramidHead wrote:
^I'm thinking more of a single room or hallway while I'm still exploring it.


No kidding! I don't even like that in action games. Did you ever play the Evil Dead games? Most of them did that, and it was so incredibly annoying..

Author:  KiramidHead [ 04 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Worried that Downpour will be too "casual."

Evil Dead games. What'll they think of next?
[Reveal] Spoiler: "reveal''
Saw, of course!

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