let's talk about the graphics

[Fevered Dream]

I'm with those who don't put much care in graphics when it comes to a SH game. Other games, yeah, but not this series. People say Origins had bad graphics, where I strongly disagreed (even looks better or at least on par with SH2's). Apparently HC at poor graphics, but they looked fine to me. And from what I 've seen so far the visuals look just fine. Besides, I'd rather they focus more on other aspects than to make the game look state of the art.

[Doctor Eggnog]

Well for me it's not the games looking state of the art, but artful. There's a lot of interesting imagry in the series, and I personally tend to care more about what characters are saying in scenes that have good graphical quality and "cinementography" (if that word can be applied to games, I mean people are always talking about the camera in games, let's pretend it's a real one, we already kinda do). I think that good graphics can add to the interest and emotional value of a game, so there's nothing shallow about wishing for it. I care more about the graphics in a SH game than the combat. The best thing you can say about the combat in any SH game is that it doesn't get in the way of the atmosphere and storytelling. Any SH game where you can't say that generally isn't as good.

Edit: Oh, and on the subject of masturbating, I believe there was a study that said 70% do. But the others could've been lying. :p

[alone in the town]

Caring about graphics is like masturbating, 95% do and the other 5% lie.

Visuals are a very important part of immersion. If the game is going to look like shit, why not just turn the damn thing into a book?

Of all the recently released games, I would say that the scariest is Minecraft. A game with absolutely primitive visuals. And it's much scarier than Dead Space or Amnesia or any of these other recent horror games with fancy graphics. Apparently visuals aren't that important.

Because scariness = immersion?

[Tillerman]

Because scariness = immersion?

"Immersion" is a vague concept that I don't care about. I only care if the new game is scary. Thus graphics are low on the priority list. Make sense?

[SilverWolfPet]

More like immersion => scariness

[alone in the town]

Because scariness = immersion?

"Immersion" is a vague concept that I don't care about. I only care if the new game is scary. Thus graphics are low on the priority list. Make sense?

If it makes sense that "scariness" is highly subjective and is, to me, just an ingredient rather than the entire meal?

[Doctor Eggnog]

Immersion creates a higher degree of scariness. Realism creates immersion. That's why I find more realistic things more scary. SH2 is actually the scariest in the series for me because it's the most toned down. Toned down doesn't necessarily mean more realistic but oftentimes does.

[Lahkesis]

I think they look good. Nothing to really complain about.

[Tillerman]

If it makes sense that "scariness" is highly subjective and is, to me, just an ingredient rather than the entire meal?

It does. But for me, scariness ought to be the main ingredient for a horror game.

Immersion creates a higher degree of scariness. Realism creates immersion. That's why I find more realistic things more scary. SH2 is actually the scariest in the series for me because it's the most toned down. Toned down doesn't necessarily mean more realistic but oftentimes does.

"Immersion" is a confusing word... I know that some people use it to mean realism, and some don't. If immersion means "feeling involved" I know that realism doesn't necessarily make that happen. Personally I don't really have a good grasp on what "immersion" is so I try not to focus on it... I just focus on the thing I care about, is the game scary. And it feels like there is no correlation between scariness and realism, since I find very few of the modern horror games scary.

[five5sixers]

–noun
1.
an act or instance of immersing.
2.
state of being immersed.
3.
state of being deeply engaged or involved; absorption.

–verb (used with object), -mersed, -mers·ing.
1.
to plunge into or place under a liquid; dip; sink.
2.
to involve deeply; absorb: She is totally immersed in her law practice.
3.
to baptize by immersion.


Essentially, to be immersed in a game or movie is to temporarily 'forget' that you're watching or playing something. You become engrossed and directly involved and there are many factors that contribute to a person's immersion into anything. If you aren't properly immersed into the game, movie or story then you won't really be affected by it because "pff it's fake" but when immersed it being fake doesn't matter.

Sorry if this came off as condescending, Tillerman, it was not my intention I just wanted to help a brother out~

[Tillerman]

^Yeah, I'm aware of that... I even said "being involved," which I guess would be the most standard definition. However, I just find it strange the way people use it when referring to video games... it's so overused and can sometimes have these weird connotations. For example, where does realism come into "being involved" in something? Yet "immersion" for some people is synonymous with realism. Other people will say "the most important thing for a game is immersion." Well if immersion just means "being involved/engrossed," isn't that redundant? It's like saying "the most important quality in a game is that I like it."

I'm just not a big fan of that word... it feels like a buzz word that doesn't really mean anything. Like this generation's version of "blast processing."

[alone in the town]

I would define it as "making me forget that I'm playing a game", in the same sense that a good book makes you unaware that you're sitting in a chair with a slab of bound paper in your hand. Just as poor writing shatters the illusion of the latter for me, a game that fails in its presentation ruins the effect. Admittedly, my standards on that have evolved over time, in that a game like the original Silent Hill was once able to grip me in such a manner, but it shows its age now, and I can never go back to it and lose myself in it completely because the aesthetics are so obviously dated that it's difficult to ignore them. I can still enjoy the game, but never like I did at first.

[Tillerman]

^That makes sense, but if you boil that down essentially "immersion" just means "I like it." Whether it's a book or a movie or a game, if you like it you feel involved. If you don't like it, you don't feel involved. So saying something is "immersive" is just a fancy way of saying it's "good." I guess that's why I feel like it's kind of a meaningless word.

But I do hope the game is scary. That's all I ask for of any horror game, and yet it's not very easily accomplished. Nice graphics would be great, but if they are PS2 quality I am not gonna complain because in the end that's not gonna make much difference as to how scary the game is.

[alone in the town]

At risk of mincing words, it's not the same for me. I can play a Mario game, and have loads of fun, but it's the sort of game that never lets you forget it's a game. It's not quite the same thing for me. Super Mario 64, for example, is good, but it's not what I'd call 'immersive'.

Alternatively, a good Silent Hill game is one that makes me forget I'm playing a game, as much as it can. It's why I find it unnecessary to go through the tired old rituals of "play in the dark, with headphones, lit candle, small animal sacrifice, etc.". If it's immersive, I can play in broad daylight and not be aware. The game's aesthetics aren't the entire illusion, but they are an important component. For instance, when I'm playing Shattered Memories on PS2, and I come across one of its many graphical glitches or low-quality textures on a sign I'm supposed to read, it kills the effect a little, like a poorly-tuned instrument in an orchestra.

It's also part of why I'm skeptical of adding sandbox elements to the series. Basically, anything that is obviously gameplay makes you remember you're playing a game, but when it's subtle, it's easy to overlook. It's why I liked the simpler, less-involved combat of the earlier games. Inventory management and complex combat can be a real buzzkill.

[Tillerman]

To be honest, I've never had this experience of "forgetting I'm playing a game." I mean, if a game is really good, I might get into it... but that also goes for more "game-like" games, like Mario. It's sort of like watching a movie... I never feel like I'm inside a movie, but if I like the movie I will feel really interested and involved.

I totally agree with you about the simpler combat of the earlier games, though. And I'm skeptical of sandbox elements as well... unless that just means more exploration, which I think is always welcome.

[Xev]

simpler, less-involved combat of the earlier games. Inventory management and complex combat can be a real buzzkill.

Yes Im a fan of this - subtle things make the atmosphere. Graphics do matter to feel more involved and Downpour looks amazing to me so far.

[Doctor Eggnog]

Hmm, yeah I wouldn't call liking a game immersion. I mean, I have so much fun playing Ratchet and Clank sometimes that I zone out and forget I'm holding a controller (I think that comes from the controls in those games being so perfect for me) and I don't think about anything else, but I wouldn't call fun immersion. It's more like I'm enjoying it more than I feel like I'd enjoy anything else at the moment, so I focus mainly on it. RandC is great BTW.

Also, I wasn't saying that realism and immersion go hand in hand for most people. I was just saying they do for me. Many of my friends say they're much more scared by supernatural stuff. When I said, "Yeah, but can you actually imagine THAT thing coming at you out of the dark!?" they said sure. I think some people are just able to stretch they're imaginations more than others. SH3 stopped being scary more quickly because the monsters and enviroments were more out there and it was harder to connect the game to reality.

In the Wood Side Apartments, I walked instead of ran because I was scared of what might happen my first time. I think that's a good sign of immersion. I think has something to do with the game connecting with you in some way, connecting with the way your mind works in a correct way. The way SH2 was done was the most correct way to scare me in a game. But that's not how it is for most people. Most would say SH1 or SH3 is scariest. So I guess immersion is different for everyone.

[Tillerman]

Hmm, yeah I wouldn't call liking a game immersion. I mean, I have so much fun playing Ratchet and Clank sometimes that I zone out and forget I'm holding a controller (I think that comes from the controls in those games being so perfect for me) and I don't think about anything else, but I wouldn't call fun immersion.

Well, that's about as close as I get to ever feeling like I am "immersed" in a game. But maybe that's just me. I don't know about you, but I never feel like I am running around inside the game room wearing VR goggles.

Also, I wasn't saying that realism and immersion go hand in hand for most people. I was just saying they do for me.

I've heard other people say that as well, though. "Immersion" is kind of a fuzzy concept so I think different people have different ideas of what it is... for some people I think it's just realism. For other people, maybe it's waving around a wii-mote.

In the Wood Side Apartments, I walked instead of ran because I was scared of what might happen my first time. I think that's a good sign of immersion.

I know what you mean, I did the same thing... it was sort of a choice to behave how my character would behave, and also just because horror games tend to be more suspenseful when you walk rather than run. I guess "immersion" is one word you could use to describe that, but it was kind of voluntary immersion on my part. I was digging the game, so I choose to try to be more involved in it. But I think I tend to do that with any game I like, so if a game has "immersive" qualities I don't know what they are other than just being a good game.

[KiramidHead]

Honestly people, I put graphics about 6 or 7 notches below story and gameplay, and a lot of those notches have nothing in them. With that frame of mind, it really pisses me off when I see some asshat comment on the latest Downpour article calling the graphics "five generations behind" or when I hear some douche complain about every single brick on every single wall in MGS 4 not being ultra high resolution. It's like going to a bookstore and bitching about the window display not being pretty, while ignoring whatever may be between the covers. </rant>

P.S. @Tillerman: I think you're confusing music with overall sound design. The use of general sound can make or break a horror experience, I agree. But music, not as much.

[Yuki]

Honestly people, I put graphics about 6 or 7 notches below story and gameplay, and a lot of those notches have nothing in them. With that frame of mind, it really pisses me off when I see some asshat comment on the latest Downpour article calling the graphics "five generations behind" or when I hear some douche complain about every single brick on every single wall in MGS 4 not being ultra high resolution. It's like going to a bookstore and bitching about the window display not being pretty, while ignoring whatever may be between the covers. </rant>

P.S. @Tillerman: I think you're confusing music with overall sound design. The use of general sound can make or break a horror experience, I agree. But music, not as much.

I agree. It would be one thing if the game looked like, say, Shattered Memories but was supposed to be HD. But Downpour, to me, looks fantastic. Photorealistic? No. Graphics could quite literally always be better-polished. But I don't particularly think these ones need to be. I'm quite satisfied with what I've been seeing.