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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: New monsters from the trailer
     
         
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Missing since: 22 Dec 2006
Notes left: 295
Last seen at: Leeds, UK
clips wrote:
This....the latest vids i've seen with Murphy fighting this creature looked extremely cheap. Like the bat creature was hitting Murphy with quick strikes then fly up into the ceiling, come down behind him, hit him then fly back up into ceiling...irritating combat gameplay.

Funny you should mention that fight, that's the fight that really put me off of the combat in Downpour when I played it at Eurogamer. It was that fight where I found out that if you don't equip a weapon and just flail your fists wildly at the monster it goes stuck in it's own 'hit' animation because you can hit with your fists faster than other weapons. So I just stood there for like a minute punching the thing until it was dead, laughing maniacally the entire time. I think I was actually meant to run away from it as well.
Also something of note about that fight was that if you swung an axe at the monster it just bounced off and made sparks against its skin. Maybe that was just for the demo I don't know.
Hopefully all that has been fixed now though.

Edit: Also at the time I didn't know the monsters name or anything and it was extremely hard not to facepalm when the creature just flew up to the roof like magic... It almost looked cartoony. It being called a Weeping Bat makes it feel like it makes more sense... until you actually look at the design and realise there doesn't seem to be any reason as to why it should be able to just jump around a room like that.
Once again, I hope the meaning behind the monster becomes more apparent than: "We're in a mine!.... Mines' have bats, right?"

In fact... I think I preferred it when we didn't have any names for anything and I was just oblivious to the monsters in each game and I didn't know anything to do with Silent Hill, but unfortunately I can't get that back. It would be amazing if they could just release a 'secret' Silent Hill game and catch us all off guard so we don't know anything about the game until we play it, but that's never going to happen.

I do realise that once again I sound ridiculously cynical about this game, but I am actually looking forward to it, just not for the same reasons as I used to look forward to Silent Hill games.

TL;DR
Weeping Bat combat was broken.
"We're in a mine!... Mines have bats, right?".
Knowing monster names/designs ruins the surprise.
I wish I didn't know anything about the game but I do.
Cynical for cynicals sake.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: New monsters from the trailer
     
         
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Missing since: 30 Mar 2010
Notes left: 129
I still don't understand why some of you people like Barbie. She has feathered platinum blond hair, bloody hands, and shimmery skin. She looks more like Lady Gaga than a Silent Hill monster.

Image

Seriously??

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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: New monsters from the trailer
     
         
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Missing since: 06 Nov 2011
Notes left: 405
^ You're a little late on the name thing, the "barbie" creature's official name is Doll, and you get a certain achievement for killing a certain amount of "Dolls".

Looks more like Lady Gaga than a Silent Hill monster? Haha, a little true. But compare Barbie to other creatures from Downpour. Barbie is simple, disturbing, obviously heavily symbolic and important to the story, and does a terrific job of making you say "Wait, what the hell is that? What does it represent? Why does it look like that in the first place? What the hell did Murphy do?!" Rather than just the other, alien and too-deformed creatures from Downpour.

The Doll creature manages to evoke a sense of disturbing mystery and fright with its simple, abstract, and actually well-thought out design. Perfectly in the spirit of the original Silent Hill monsters--a human being deformed/redesigned to some extent to make you feel like it is at least some part human, which makes sense because it is part of a human's mind.

And, also:

[Reveal] Spoiler:
That's not the final design of the Doll in the release game. :P I actually liked the original better.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: New monsters from the trailer

Missing since: 08 Oct 2009
Notes left: 88
Yeah, I don't care so much what the monsters look like (especially judging from still shots alone) as what they represent. What I'm hoping for is that they came up with the metaphor/symbolism for them beforehand, and then designed the monsters with that in mind, rather than designed some fucked up creature and then tacked on some contrived symbolism later. I have a feeling these monsters will have been designed the right way (as the developers have probably learned from past iterations mistakes) and that should make up for the limited variety hopefully.

Plus, I wouldn't have thought the grey children were that scary/interesting from a screenshot but they're my fav enemies in the series mostly due to the weird sounds they make and the way they move. I don't think we can judge the monsters that fairly till we've seen how they move, behave, sound, respond to attacks etc...


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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: New monsters from the trailer
     
         
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Missing since: 24 Nov 2011
Notes left: 398
I'm all for symbolism in monsters, but it shouldn't be the sole important factor to focus on when creating them. They should also have a distinct design that separates them from the rest of the monsters in the series for variety's sake. They should also present a challenge and make you rethink strategy with each monster having different attacks, weaknesses, methods of dealing with them, etc. That sort of thing.

You can have the most symbolic, deep, & thought provoking monsters yet it won't mean much of anything if they're incredibly derivative, used too often, and lacking in strategy when fighting them that the edge they bring eventually disappears. SH2 suffered from this problem with nothing but nurses, Lying Figures, and mannequins appearing for three-fourths of the game. Sure, there were roaches and mandarins but they made such little appearances and were so easy to dodge they barely count for anything.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: New monsters from the trailer
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Dec 2010
Notes left: 451
Augophthalmoses wrote:
I'm all for symbolism in monsters, but it shouldn't be the sole important factor to focus on when creating them. They should also have a distinct design that separates them from the rest of the monsters in the series for variety's sake. They should also present a challenge and make you rethink strategy with each monster having different attacks, weaknesses, methods of dealing with them, etc. That sort of thing.

You can have the most symbolic, deep, & thought provoking monsters yet it won't mean much of anything if they're incredibly derivative, used too often, and lacking in strategy when fighting them that the edge they bring eventually disappears. SH2 suffered from this problem with nothing but nurses, Lying Figures, and mannequins appearing for three-fourths of the game. Sure, there were roaches and mandarins but they made such little appearances and were so easy to dodge they barely count for anything.



i'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one. i dont really care how derivative they are, as long as they fit perfectly with the psyche of the protagonist. With that being said, i found SH2's monsters to be the most creative and thought-provoking in the entire series. I'm sure a lot of forum members would agree with me on this one.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: New monsters from the trailer
     
         
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Missing since: 24 Nov 2011
Notes left: 398
I'm just not one of those people who thinks story should be given more priority than the gameplay. Plus, you have take into account the fear factor and tension level. It's kinda hard to feel threatened by nurses, LFs, and mannequins in SH2 when they're all rather similar bipedal creatures with familiar attacks and weaknesses (save LF's gas attack).

Of course I want them to be creative and have some kind of imagery. But it's a video game at the end of the day and Silent Hill needs thought provoking imagery combined with innovation and new methods for attacking from monsters than just slapping at you.

It's completely possible to maintain a proper balance of them both. And don't you think not being derivative would greatly help monster design and as a result further benefit potential symbolism?


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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: New monsters from the trailer
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Jun 2004
Notes left: 867
Last seen at: Georgia, USA
LeriSuccubus wrote:
I still don't understand why some of you people like Barbie. She has feathered platinum blond hair, bloody hands, and shimmery skin. She looks more like Lady Gaga than a Silent Hill monster.
Yes, and you just described all the reasons why she creeps me the hell out. You answered your own question.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: New monsters from the trailer

Missing since: 01 Apr 2012
Notes left: 1
That "barbie" monster looks like Lady Gaga, im sure she inspired them. Anyway i think this mosnter is ridiculous, the other ones are boring too and i dont get any meaning of the monsters.
[Reveal] Spoiler:
The only creepy thing in the game is the wheelchair-guy. The wall attached thing reminds me the one from Dead Space. The boogeyman idea is so pathetic i think (like in a hollywood teen horror movie).


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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: New monsters from the trailer
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Apr 2009
Notes left: 1399
I love most of the designs in this, the only one I don't care for much is the prisoner. OK I love the prisoner's face, when you catch the things staring at you it's chilling, but otherwise it's just some dude in a pair of trousers who wants to punch you. I'm sure they could have been more abstract with their representation of an imprisoned person. Hell, I could do it right now. Give him chains, make him limp with a ball and chain on his ankle......


Do the Weeping Bats remind anybody else of Doom 3?

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: New monsters from the trailer

Missing since: 18 Mar 2012
Notes left: 15
I have to say the mines level made it a bit hard for me to take the Weeping Bats seriously...
[Reveal] Spoiler:
The very first one you meet (I think it was the first one...) kept jumping onto the ceiling whenever I blocked its attacks so I ended up throwing a magical respawning pickaxe at it from under the cover of the doorway until it dropped down like a stone... And then there was the Cave of Glitches... I mean Tears... where all the Bats acted as if I arrived too early and they hadn't rehearsed their roles yet - skittering in a panic all over the area while Murphy just strolled through.


On the plus side, I find the Screamers pretty creepy, and the, uh, 'kung-fu dudes' really like to pop up behind me... I'll be tiptoeing cautiously down the street, taking pains not to run headfirst into anyone, when suddenly my radio will go off, I hit L1, and sure enough there's one right by me, crap.

The other monsters I haven't even reached yet, kinda wish the game had come out in the winter as previously planned, I would have had many more hours of darkness to utilize :)


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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: New monsters from the trailer
     
         
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Missing since: 22 Apr 2010
Notes left: 328
Last seen at: Minnesota, US
In retrospect, I now think the monsters in this game are better than most of the monsters in SH: The Room, but they still aren't that great. However, I did notice that most of them have 2 types, with the second type being a little more 'Silent Hillish'. Type 2 weeping bats seem to be covered in blood or some other substance, type 2 dolls have black hair and a gaping hole where their mouth should be, and type 2 prisoner minions have a right arm that ends in a deformed club like appendage that's fused to a knife of some sort.

I'm still not keen on the juggernauts and the screamers. The juggernauts are even more human than the prisoners, and the screamers are severely overused. They seem to appear at least twice as often as any other monster in the game. They go down really easily too, so it got to a point where I was able to butcher a group of 4 to 5 of them with out taking a single hit.
[Reveal] Spoiler:
As for the bogeyman, the concept art was MUCH better and a lot creepier than the final product. One concept was an extremely tall slender man like thing wearing a long gas mask, and another was a floating creature with a cage on it's head. Vatra should have chose one of those designs.


Also, does anyone know if it's even possible to kill the wall corpse monsters? When melee weapons failed, I tried shooting one and nothing happened.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: New monsters from the trailer
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Apr 2009
Notes left: 1399
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Bogeyman is so cool when you know what he actually is after finishing the game. I love the design too. Sure it's not a surreal thing like PH but that's kinda what makes him cool. No matter what they did with him everybody would have screamed 'Pyramid Head ripoff!' like they did with the butcher if he had been more of a surreal executioner.

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Where we're from, the birds sing a pretty song, and there's always music in the air.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: New monsters from the trailer
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Mar 2011
Notes left: 52
DistantJ wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Bogeyman is so cool when you know what he actually is after finishing the game. I love the design too. Sure it's not a surreal thing like PH but that's kinda what makes him cool. No matter what they did with him everybody would have screamed 'Pyramid Head ripoff!' like they did with the butcher if he had been more of a surreal executioner.



This. I definitly don't really like the desing of
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Bogeyman, but, wow, it doesn't even matter once you know it's meaning.


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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: New monsters from the trailer
     
         
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Missing since: 09 Aug 2007
Notes left: 3634
Last seen at: Federative Republic of Butts
Guys, can we all just be a little more mindful about what we post. Even if it only seems like a minor spoiler, we are in the non spoiler section and some people want to be in the dark as much as possible.

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