Search FAQ

Login | Register


All times are UTC [ DST ]


It is currently 13 Dec 2018




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 42 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Crows
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 05 Jul 2010
Notes left: 3339
Last seen at: Kentucky
^I don't know. I was in an emotional state when I posted that. I had just got finished emailing Gackt about how much he inspires me.

_________________
I'm rarely on the forums anymore. Click here for ways to reach me.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Crows
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2890
Crows are kind of creepy, but I once saw a crow getting chased away by a blue bird a quarter of it's size, so they don't exactly bother me. It all depends on context.

_________________
Screenplay Archaeology Podcast - DOCTOR WHO EPISODE IS UP!


Top
   
 

Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Crows

Missing since: 25 Jul 2010
Notes left: 41
Last seen at: The badlands
Kafka's novel, the Trial, is about a man named Joseph k who for no apparent reason is arrested for crimes unknown. Rather than being taken into custody he is allowed to roam about his daily business without much interference. However, and I think this is what could connect Kafka to silent hill: Joseph puts himself on trial and torments himself until he Proves his innocence to powers unknown.

I wouldn't connect Kafka to silent hill just because of crows, but there are probably some other interesting similarities between the environments Kafka created in literature and what we may learn of murphys sh.

_________________
The only thing I know is nothing


Top
   
 

Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Crows

Missing since: 07 Jun 2011
Notes left: 3
I get the feeling that they were thrown in because of their appearance in the movie. Personally I hope they are not symbolic. Anything that makes the game more Alan Wakey turns me off. (this isn't a "zOMG ALAN WAKE RIPOFF!!" comment)


Top
   
 

Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Crows
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 23 Apr 2011
Notes left: 252
Last seen at: The bottom of a bottle
Shoggoth wrote:
I get the feeling that they were thrown in because of their appearance in the movie. Personally I hope they are not symbolic. Anything that makes the game more Alan Wakey turns me off. (this isn't a "zOMG ALAN WAKE RIPOFF!!" comment)

I thought the film had canaries?

_________________
country matters


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Crows
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 May 2006
Notes left: 1881
Last seen at: in the branches that blow
^ it was both.
I like crows but I agree that it would be better without wildlife in SH apart from the monsters. Much scarier that way. Even seeing snakes would be comforting to me. That photo reminds me of the movie though and if all the graphics are taking after the movie, it just may be that.

-Kafka means crow in Czech

That I didnt know.

_________________
Image


Top
   
 

Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: Crows
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 30 Mar 2009
Notes left: 1081
Last seen at: North of The Wall
Xev wrote:
^ it was both.
I like crows but I agree that it would be better without wildlife in SH apart from the monsters. Much scarier that way. Even seeing snakes would be comforting to me.



I agree with this. With the exception of the ill-fated locker cat Silent Hill has always been devoid of any normal signs of life, part of what makes it's atmosphere for me is the stillness and emptiness of the foggy world. I do worry that Vatra are going the other way, with the crows and the weather and everything (I even turn the complex fog off when playing SH2 because I prefer the stillness.)

However, if the crows do have some symbolic meaning, a reason to be there that is more than for generic horror ambience then I'll be ok with it.

_________________
Too cold to start a fire
I'm burning diesel, burning dinosaur bones
I'll take the river down to still water
And ride a pack of dogs


Top
   
 

Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Crows

Missing since: 07 Jun 2011
Notes left: 3
What worries me is that they may place too much emphasis on making everything symbolic. If you begin to focus on that too much, the symbolism feels forced whereas it should flow naturally.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Crows
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
Shoggoth wrote:
What worries me is that they may place too much emphasis on making everything symbolic. If you begin to focus on that too much, the symbolism feels forced whereas it should flow naturally.


How would that be forced? All the monsters in the previous SH games were symbolic, and especially in SH2, the random holes we encounter are too.

_________________
Image
Beyond the Joystick - game reviews, plot recaps, and more
http://beyond-the-joystick.blogspot.com - Also on Tumblr!


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Crows
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 27 Jul 2009
Notes left: 3535
I think he means symbolism is great, but it can be bad if symbolism is OMGHERETHEREVERYWHERE where it's "forced" upon and every. little. thing. is supposed to have some sort of meaning. I agree, if that's what he's saying.

however, symbolism is good and I love it <3 especially if a whole bunch of it is in a SIlent Hill game.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Crows
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 19 Jul 2007
Notes left: 5077
The problem, which I've said many times before, is that game developers often aren't good storytellers (good storytelling is actually very, very difficult). So, they'll decide they need to sprinkle symbolism and hints all over the place, and they'll do it in the most obvious, mallet-to-face fashion while thinking they're being really subtle.

A good example (for hinting at plot twists, not symbolism) is FFX: I think the developers actually thought they were keeping Yuna's martyrdom a secret. I say that because of the way the "money shot" is handled (sad, dramatic music swells, Tidus wails with motion blur). However, with all of the "subtle hints" they dropped all over the story, it was obvious to anyone by the Luca chapter. The revelation was not only killed, it has been decomposing for several dozen hours of playtime.

The best symbolism in literature was probably emergent. That is to say, the author wasn't going out of his/her way to stick it in the story, but it was discovered and interpreted by generations of scholars. Eventually, the symbolic interpretation becomes fact, despite having nothing to do with the author's original intentions.

_________________
Image


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Crows
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
Kenji wrote:
The best symbolism in literature was probably emergent. That is to say, the author wasn't going out of his/her way to stick it in the story, but it was discovered and interpreted by generations of scholars. Eventually, the symbolic interpretation becomes fact, despite having nothing to do with the author's original intentions.


I don't mean to be argumentative, but this is one of my strongest pet peeves: I feel like we should always take into account author's intention. Thinking HEY THIS DEFINITELY SYMBOLIZES THIS when it could have literally just been a bird is ludicrous, in my mind.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

_________________
Image
Beyond the Joystick - game reviews, plot recaps, and more
http://beyond-the-joystick.blogspot.com - Also on Tumblr!


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Crows
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 19 Jul 2007
Notes left: 5077
No, wait, this is actually rather important...

One problem with authorial intent is that, at some point, the author is gonna die and will be unable to defend his own interpretation of the work. For example, Nabokov dislikes allegory and, in his own words, has never written an allegorical work. Despite that, there is a persistent scholarly interpretation of Lolita as an allegory of the relationship between decadent Europe and barbaric, nubile America. In a hundred years, guess which one will become "the truth" and be taught in literature classes as the true genius of Nabokov.

Let's go a little closer to home: Many of the staff interviews seem to indicate that many of Team Silent's artistic choices for Silent Hill 2 were made on the basis of whatever was creepy or shocking, not in following some grand plan of tying every last detail to the James-Mary narrative. If that's the case, then the rich, super-relevant version of SH2 in the hearts and minds of this forum's members was created by those selfsame members. Yeah, that's right, I just blasphemed. :wink:

The ancestral form of storytelling took place around a campfire, not from a pulpit: Art is, whether the artist likes it or not, inherently participatory. Whether the artist accepts it or not, their work will be reinterpreted via the experiences and imaginations of each and every observer.

Many artists dislike this and will do their utmost to control the interpretations of their work. This is about as impossible as a parent trying to keep their teenage child from having sex, and it only serves to make the parent (or artist) that much more ridiculous and undignified. It's Sisyphean at best, a massacre at worst.

I consider it far better, instead, to embrace the participatory nature of art. After all, to each individual, whatever they imagine will always be the richest experience. No amount of telling them that they're wrong will change that. The biggest gift an artist could give to the audience is, when finished, to never speak of the work again.

_________________
Image


Top
   
 

Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Crows
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 03 Jan 2011
Notes left: 166
Last seen at: Cloud 9
^Totally agree with that third paragraph there. To cite some, the “making of SH2” showed the devs talking about the flash light scene and the James in the chair scene as neat yet subtle tricks to induce fear amongst the players. Could be wrong, but at the same time I don't believe TS were as "genious" as some make 'em out to be when it comes to symbolism, or what some interpret as symbolism. To me they were just "spooky" things sprinkled on top of good storytelling.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Crows
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
I have no problem with people interpreting it different ways, though. My beef with literary interpretation goes mainly in how it's done, because I've seen authors say "No, you're getting that wrong" (and being deadly serious while saying it), and readers will say the author is wrong.

_________________
Image
Beyond the Joystick - game reviews, plot recaps, and more
http://beyond-the-joystick.blogspot.com - Also on Tumblr!


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Crows
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2890
^A good example would be Ray Bradbury and Fahrenheit 451. He does tend to get real dickish about it, though.

_________________
Screenplay Archaeology Podcast - DOCTOR WHO EPISODE IS UP!


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Crows
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
KiramidHead wrote:
^A good example would be Ray Bradbury and Fahrenheit 451. He does tend to get real dickish about it, though.


I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to. I take umbrage with Bradbury, though, because if I remember correctly, he's "changed" the meaning of 451 multiple times. I want to say at first he said it was about book censorship--and it CLEARLY is--but now he's trying to claim it's about how evil technology is.

_________________
Image
Beyond the Joystick - game reviews, plot recaps, and more
http://beyond-the-joystick.blogspot.com - Also on Tumblr!


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Crows
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2890
He's pretty much gone off on multiple rants that start with people saying the book is about censorship, and ends with him spouting on about how evil TV and the internet are. He won't even allow Kindle versions of his works.

_________________
Screenplay Archaeology Podcast - DOCTOR WHO EPISODE IS UP!


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Crows
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 05 Jul 2010
Notes left: 3339
Last seen at: Kentucky
^I always through Fahrenheit 451's burning of books was a metaphor of how the government has control over people by controlling what they read, kind of like a 1984-esque situation. Also, the banned books list....yeah, most (probably all) of the books I've ever read are on that list.

_________________
I'm rarely on the forums anymore. Click here for ways to reach me.


Top
   
 

RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: Crows
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
While I never had a theory regarding Kafka to be considered "spot on," the inclusion of a scholarly book discussing interpretations of Kafka's The Metamorphosis and In the Penal Colony does suggest a certain amount of influence as I suspected.

_________________
This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 42 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: