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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Got Downpour? Want to share impressions? Post them here!
     
         
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2008
Notes left: 586
Last seen at: Lake Tahoe, U.S.A.
Thanks Juri, my thoughts exactly..

You know what things like side quests, really unorthodox otherworld designs and some creepy, albeit questionable new gameplay mechanics say to me?

That Vatra is at least trying to breathe new life into a franchise that has long been in danger of growing stale.. whether they succeeded to everyone's satisfaction? who's to say..

But I can tell you that, for me, this game had more jaw drop moments than almost any of the other SH games, and believe me when I say, I am one of those "diehard fans" I was poking fun at in the last post.

I feel like they took so many of the elements I loved about the original games and put their own creepy central euopean twist on them..

Granted thats my opinion, but I feel like this is the best effort on a SH game in YEARS!

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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Got Downpour? Want to share impressions? Post them here!
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Apr 2009
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Well, Downpour is my new favourite game, so...

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Got Downpour? Want to share impressions? Post them here!
     
         
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Missing since: 20 Jul 2004
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Shackled and Juri, are you skipping over the parts where Transient says "It's a pretty fun game overall, but all of it's shortcomings really bring it down." I don't think he once said the game was horrible, just certain things about the game were, so there's no contradiction there at all.

Anyhow, all of his complaints are points i've seen brought up by others as well. the monster designs are atrocious, the combat is bad, and the story is average at best.. plus, people either love or hate the sidequests. I still think this game is pretty bad, and I can't get my head around why folks enjoy it so much, but you don't see me questioning people's opinions.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Got Downpour? Want to share impressions? Post them here!
     
         
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2008
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>Shackled and Juri, are you skipping over the parts where Transient says "It's a pretty fun game overall, but all of it's shortcomings really bring it down." I don't think he once said the game was horrible, just certain things about the game were, so there's no contradiction there at all.


Of course, liking loving or hating this game is a very objective thing..

To answer your question, no, I wasn't "skipping" over anything he said.. I just thought it was a touch hypocritical that his post was 99.9% gripes and then he goes on to say he enjoys it.. I mean if there are THAT MANY things "wrong" with this game, I don't see how he could have enjoyed it at all...

I know if I had that negative of a perception of the game, I certainly wouldn't call it "enjoyment"

> Anyhow, all of his complaints are points i've seen brought up by others as well. the monster designs are atrocious, the combat is bad, and the story is average at best.. plus, people either love or hate the sidequests. I still think this game is pretty bad, and I can't get my head around why folks enjoy it so much, but you don't see me questioning people's opinions.

Like Juri said, there's voicing your opinion, and then there's flat out blasting.. If you ask me, it's not hard to tell the difference.. Sounds like preconceptions about this game are ruining it for a lot of people..

1. The combat is not THAT bad, for the love of god..

2. The monster designs, admittedly aren't the best in the series by a long shot, but I thought they reflected Murphy's personality quite well.

3. It seems to me (just my opinion) that a lot of the people complaining about Downpour just wanted to hate this game from the get go, and don't see how hard the dev team really worked on trying to please evereyone, regardless of whether they were 100% successful or not..

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Got Downpour? Want to share impressions? Post them here!
     
         
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Missing since: 20 Jul 2004
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I don't know. I complain about the game quite a bit, and i initially thought i'd love Downpour. I wasn't overly hyped for it, but throughout development i expected to really enjoy it upon release, and unfortunately things didn't turn out that way.

anyhow, his thoughts reminds me of how i feel/felt about Silent Hill 4. There were so many things wrong with that game, and so many things i either hated, or really disliked, but in the end i still enjoyed the overall experience. i mean, i ended up beating the game about 5 times before i put it away for good... i don't do that with games i don't like.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Got Downpour? Want to share impressions? Post them here!
     
         
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Missing since: 03 Apr 2006
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Jeez guys, hop off the dick, lol.

I really did enjoy this game, just because I found a lot of faults with it doesn't make me a hypocrite. I could have listed all the things I enjoyed as well, but my post would have been at least twice as long, and it was already pretty much a tl;dr.

But here it is, I enjoyed the rain thing, the caves at the beginning were sweet, I'm pretty sure I mentioned this in my post, but you must have missed it, the centennial building otherworld was AWESOME, the whole time I was just like "what...the...fuck...." over and over, my girlfriend walked in at this part and was all "babe, this is pretty fucked..." loved it.

And whoever said they think I haven't seen the ring? First of all, I have seen it and its awful sequel (deer anyone? lol), second of all, what does that have to do with anything? lol

Bogeyman is a shit name. It just is. It's like calling him "the monster" or something, you know? And he has a GAS MASK! OH SCARY! I remember watching on the making of silent hill 2 when they said they didn't want to have pyramid head just be a guy in a mask, because that isn't scary, so they gave him the big helmet. A GUY IN A MASK ISN'T SCARY. I'm sorry, it just isnt. Especially a gasmask, like I said, it just looks like a rip off of Clocktower 3 or something. I don't think they should have had something like that in the game in the first place, the whole thing felt shoe-horned in.

Why do you think I'm bashing the game just to bash it? I logged in to this site for the first time in 6 years to share my opinion, as I've seen some people that work on this game read these forums, maybe they will see my post and rethink their generic approach to such a great franchise.

So if you're listening guys, get rid of KORN. That shit doesn't belong here. It makes me cringe everytime I leave the start screen up for too long. "close my eyes I go to sleep he's always there I start to weep." Realy? I could have written better lyrics when I was 10.

Also, ditch the sidequests, just make them part of the main game. There were some great moments, but a lot of fetch quests, and as I've seen mentioned, things like the mirror quest and stuff could have easily been put into other places in the game. And the combat took away from a lot of this too, like the shadow play quest, I was actually kind of having fun trying to mess with the shadow to get it to stick, but then I'd get ambushed by an enemy, and think "ugh, here we go, fighting the sweatpants guy again" it just took me out of the moment so much.

Quit trying to re-invent combat. Maybe a dodge move or something, but other than that, r1 to auto aim, square to shoot, same for melee. I don't need to get into a block, attack, block, attack fest with a monster, I want to swing at it until it's dead, if I take a few hits so what? That's what health drinks are for. Combat in this game was AWFUL. Just straight up fucking terrible. It wasn't such a big deal simply because there wasn't too much combat at first, but by the end, that whole last section they just throw a ton of enemies at you. You can't take the most broken aspect of your game and make it the focal point of the last part of the game, just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

They nailed a lot of the atmosphere in this game, and I'd give it a 6, maybe a 7 out of 10, but they really need to either let this series die or go back to the drawing board.

Edit: Also, while I'm at it. I really thought the story was pretty forgettable, but there were parts in the game where I thought they were gonna go the SH2 amnesia route, which I'm glad they didn't. I also will give them props that they didn't explain everything and left some mystery to it, I'm just hoping the next game won't be about "judgement" or whatever, it's way over done.


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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 Post subject: Re: Got Downpour? Want to share impressions? Post them here!
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Jan 2006
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Skele wrote:
Shackled and Juri, are you skipping over the parts where Transient says "It's a pretty fun game overall, but all of it's shortcomings really bring it down." I don't think he once said the game was horrible. . .

TransientJetlag wrote:
It's cool that Tom or whatever posts here and stuff, but honestly his comics were garbage, and this is garbage.

This is like stating that you like my hair overall, but it looks like it was vomited onto my head by a dying cat. I'd still take offense because it's blatantly insulting, as this statement is a blatant insult directed at Tom Waltz's work, which many of us actually appreciate.

TransientJetlag wrote:
And whoever said they think I haven't seen the ring?

you previously wrote:
And GOD the enemies. . . . Girl from the ring but with claws?

Since the two look nothing alike (they're female with dark hair, that's about it) I had to assume that you either hadn't seen The Ring or hadn't played Downpour and had only heard of Screamers by rough description.
Screamers are grown women with short hair, inhuman eyes, stretched-looking skin, and mouths wide enough to split their faces. They wear dark dresses that look like bloody patchwork animal hides. Samara is a child with a human face (that may or may not appear decayed), very long hair, and a simple white dress. I don't recall her screaming a whole lot, either. If I wanted to be similarly dismissive of the Screamer's design, I could say "Pfft. Kristin Stewart with claws? Really? Lame." It would be an equally accurate criticism.

>Bogeyman is a shit name. It just is.
I have to ask: What would you call him?

>A GUY IN A MASK ISN'T SCARY. I'm sorry, it just isnt. Especially a gasmask
I respectfully disagree. The purpose of the mask is the same as Pyramid Head's helmet: it hides the face and dehumanizes the creature. It's not a tremendously original method of making the baddies scary, but it's been used so often throughout games and movies because it works. There's no reasoning with a person when you can't look them in the eye and that makes them seem emotionless and unstoppable.

>Also, ditch the sidequests, just make them part of the main game.
Um, you know those are two mutually exclusive options, right? Do you want the side quests gone or do you just not want them to be called side quests. I mean, you could think of them as part of the main quest if that somehow makes them more enjoyable, or you could just skip them entirely if you don't like them. That's what "side quest" means.

>. . .things like the mirror quest and stuff could have easily been put into other places in the game.
Statements like this are what make me think you're just looking for stuff to nitpick. Where else should it have been put? Why does it matter where it is?

>Quit trying to re-invent combat.
I'm pretty sure the majority of fans appreciate innovation. A lot of people like being able to block in Downpour, just like a lot of people liked being able to dodge in Homecoming. If the developers are afraid to try new things because someone's going to whine about it (and someone always will) they would never try anything new and then we'd have that to complain about. By general consensus (if that thread I linked earlier is any indication) Downpour's combat was very well received. You don't have to block to get through fights; I almost never do. If you want the combat simple, you can choose to fight simply.


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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Got Downpour? Want to share impressions? Post them here!
     
         
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Missing since: 20 Jul 2004
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^Juri, we had Boogeyman in Homecoming, so is this "Boogeyman" in Downpour the same guy? i only ask cos i never finished the game.

Anyway I'll only reply about the combat.. yes, we fans like innovation, but there there was nothing innovative about Downpour's combat. You bring up good points about developers being afraid to try new things, and Vatra pretty much took a big step backwards imo in regard to combat. They didn't do anything to improve upon Homecoming's combat, they just ignored it completely and gave us SH4's combat with the ability to block, and threw in breakable weapons from Origins. And again, this is the only site where i see more positive criticism, than negative. There's a reason why Downpour is the lowest ranked game in the series on metacritic.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Got Downpour? Want to share impressions? Post them here!
     
         
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Missing since: 03 Apr 2006
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Juri, it feels to me like you are "needlessly nitpicking" my post because you don't agree with me. The ring comparison, I'm getting it from the way her hair covers her eyes, it's very similar, and as I am not the only one to have brought this up it's not like I'm grasping at straws here.

Also, is this the only SH forum you read? Because aside from the thread you posted, the combat has not been "well received," it's one of the major gripes people have with the game.

And I'm not saying to just "not call them sidequests." I'm saying incorporate them in a way that they don't feel so tacked on, like if the mirror quest was in st. maria's instead of a random house. I'd rather them ditch the fetch quests all together, but if they're gonna do something like that, at least give a reason. Why is murphy freeing these birds? Does he love birds a lot? Did charlie? It just seems silly that a man who is trying to get the hell away from town would waste his time running around collecting paintings and freeing birds from cages.

As for what I would call the bogeyman? I would prefer that they didn't even include that in the game. First of all, trenchcoat?(mr x from RE2) Gas mask?(corroder or whatever from CT3) hammer?(that other boss from CT3) It just feels like a Pyramid Head rehash with a lamer completely unoriginal design. As far as the mask thing goes, that guy from team silent explicitly said the reason they gave PH a helmet was because "a guy in a mask isn't scary." And I agree with him. Maybe when the first texas chainsaw massacre came out it was, but nowadays? no way. All I can think is other times people have used the gas mask gimmick, (like the guy in slipknot or something, LOL) and it's just way overdone. Maybe make him an actual monster? It feels shoe-horned in, like they thought to themselves "oh man! We gotta bring in da Pyramid head! yeayayuh!" and somebody was like "oh no dude, we can't do that, fans will bitch because pyramid head represents James' guilt." So somebody interjected, "oh i know! He'll be the same as PH, but we'll just like, give him a gas mask, or something. BROOTAL DOODS!"

Also, I don't see you defending shirtless sweatpants man, and bigger shirtless sweatpants man? Maybe you agree with me here that this enemy design is completely retarded? He literally chases you and goes "raaahr!!" lol.

It's like you're jumping down my throat because I found many faults with a game that I really did enjoy. The only reason I'm so critical is because I'm a HUGE Silent Hill nerd, and would love nothing more than for this game to have reached it's full potential. I'm not the only one complaining, like I said, maybe stray from this site occasionally and check out other opinions, it's like happy fairytale land where every SH game is the best here. People seem almost offended that anybody would have gripes with the game, didn't mean to diss your best friend Tom so bad. I just saw SO much potential in it, they nailed the whole SH vibe of "what..the..fuck" for a lot of it, they really could have made this game a 10/10 and it's sad to see it falter so much.


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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 Post subject: Re: Got Downpour? Want to share impressions? Post them here!
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Jan 2006
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Skele wrote:
Juri, we had Boogeyman in Homecoming, so is this "Boogeyman" in Downpour the same guy?

There's not really a definitive answer given. The mechanics of monster manifestation are vague enough that it could go either way, but I'm inclined to believe it's just a name, and it's not like the monsters name themselves. They look nothing alike, for what it's worth.

As I mentioned earlier, "bogeyman" is just a general term for monster; there's nothing specific about it. Really, the only reason Bogeyman can't have a super special creative name is because it's the only monster important enough for characters to talk about. Since the first of those characters is a child, it's perfectly natural for him to refer to it as the Bogeyman. He calls it that because he's scared of it, not because he read its monster description somewhere. "Red Pyramid Thing" (as it's officially called) is called that because it was referred to as such by James Sunderland, not because the developers thought it would be a badass name.

In summation: complaints about the bogeyman's name are trivial to the point of being absolutely ludicrous.

>. . .there was nothing innovative about Downpour's combat.
I was responding to Transient's insistence that developers "quit trying to reinvent combat." Blocking may be the only new thing Downpour brought to combat, but it's still an attempt at something new, which a lot of people appreciate. I don't even use the blocking feature most of the time, but I like that the developers wanted to try something new and I hate to see people discourage it. Developers listen to fan complaints, and since people bitched loudly enough about Homecoming's combat, Downpour's was simpler. Is that what you're referring to by a "step back"?

This is the only SH forum I visit (I'm a mod here and I have a life that includes a full-time job) so I see this place as a reasonably diverse cross-section of the fan base. Based on what I've read here and my own personal experience, I'd say Downpour's combat is as good as it needs to be.

TransientJetlag wrote:
Juri, it feels to me like you are "needlessly nitpicking" my post because you don't agree with me.

Sorry you feel that way, but your feelings are wrong. Statements like "I respectfully disagree" and "you have a right to your opinion" should have made that clear. My responses to you are aimed at the faulty reasoning (or lack thereof) behind most of your complaints. If you were a fan of, say Assassin's Creed, and I walked into a discussion to spout off a tirade about how "this is garbage! Altair is just a ripoff of Neo in a white coat! Jumping into haybales is a shit mechanic, I got so frustrated after missing 15 times that I sold the game. IT SUCKS! I COULD MAKE A BETTER GAME IN MY SLEEP!" I imagine you would call me on my bullshit statements.

>The ring comparison, I'm getting it from the way her hair covers her eyes. . .
It covers her eyes? Really? Are you sure?

>And I'm not saying to just "not call them sidequests." I'm saying incorporate them in a way that they don't feel so tacked on, like if the mirror quest was in st. maria's instead of a random house.
So instead of having the option to do these quests if we feel like it, we should have a game that incorporates about 30 puzzles? Oh yeah. I bet that would go over great.

>Why is murphy freeing these birds?
From the "Downpour FAQ" thread:
NanayaShiki wrote:
AuraTwilight wrote:
The blue birds represent the Bluebird of Happiness, which represents a joy just out of reach, like a lover out at sea because he's fighting in the military. 'Freeing the bluebird of happiness" is an euphenism for finding joy and inner peace.
Considering the cutscenes that play when you let them out, I'm sure this is what was intended. It should also be mentioned, though, that letting a trapped bird out of it's cage is not without symbolism in and of itself for a prisoner.

You're always welcome to ask these questions and search for the meaning of certain aspects of the game before ripping it a new one and calling it garbage.

>. . .bogeyman? I would prefer that they didn't even include that in the game.
Yeah, that would totally work! Remove the vehicle that allows the protagonists to project and confront their external demons. Good idea! [/sarcasm] The reason Bogeyman isn't a super special unique snowflake of a monster is that we (Murphy and the audience) have to imagine that this is
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Napier.
At the same time, it has to be able to fit Anne's own personal bogeyman,
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Murphy.
Bogeyman is a menacing blank canvas; calling it "generic" is really missing the point.

>. . .Also, I don't see you defending shirtless sweatpants man, and bigger shirtless sweatpants man? Maybe you agree with me here that this enemy design is completely retarded?
I wouldn't be such a knob about it, but yeah, I was not impressed with those monster designs. They make sense given their context, but they don't strike me as being particularly creative. Again, I'm not here to defend the game from all criticism, just that which makes no sense.

>. . .it's like happy fairytale land where every SH game is the best here.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! No, this is just a forum where trolling and spamming is disallowed, so most of the people who show a complete lack of respect (and you can criticize a game respectfully) have already gotten themselves banned for one reason or another.

>. . .they really could have made this game a 10/10 and it's sad to see it falter so much.
So if a new Silent Hill game isn't perfect by your standards (which may completely defy the internal logic of the game), it's "garbage." What I find really funny is that you say you would rate this game a 6 or 7 out of 10, yet you rage like Vatra personally came to your house and took a shit on your table.

You're allowed to be disappointed. Every developer knows they can't please everyone. But please try to think rationally about the game's faults and whether or not you're just dismissing the entire game because it didn't fit your expectations. And if you still find gripes that aren't baseless, please try to at least be mature and respectful when addressing said gripes. Then you won't come off like an unpleasable fanboy and maybe the developers of the next game will actually care what you have to say.


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Just Passing Through
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LOL I love the internet. It's cool man, i feel like you're not getting what I'm trying to say, but it's all gravy, cuz Silent Hill is awesome, and this game could have been a lot worse.


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Gravedigger
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>Also, is this the only SH forum you read? Because aside from the thread you posted, the combat has not been "well received," it's one of the major gripes people have with the game.

Here we go.. Let's not start a whole "well THIS forum is leaning towards.." This debate was going along just fine without that BS.. guess what? I have been to other forums, and you know what I've seen? Pretty much the same thing across the board.. some love it, some hate it, some are on the fence..there goes your theory on SHF members "living in a fairytale"

>Sorry you feel that way, but your feelings are wrong. Statements like "I respectfully disagree" and "you have a right to your opinion" should have made that clear. My responses to you are aimed at the faulty reasoning (or lack thereof) behind most of your complaints. If you were a fan of, say Assassin's Creed, and I walked into a discussion to spout off a tirade about how "this is garbage! Altair is just a ripoff of Neo in a white coat! Jumping into haybales is a shit mechanic, I got so frustrated after missing 15 times that I sold the game. IT SUCKS! I COULD MAKE A BETTER GAME IN MY SLEEP!" I imagine you would call me on my bullshit statements.

>The ring comparison, I'm getting it from the way her hair covers her eyes. . .
It covers her eyes? Really? Are you sure?

...epic win lol

I have to agree with Juri again.. It almost sounds to me as if your saying you could have done a better job than Vatra, and are kind of shitting on their efforts because you are, as you put it, such a "Silent Hill Nerd" and it didn't live up to your expectations...

and you know, I'm an insanely big SH fan too.. and even I know that the original games had a lot of faults in their own right, faults I was able to overlook because of how great the atmosphere was, and, well, just the whole Silent Hill lore that drew you in..

I feel like with ANY of these games, you have to suspend disbelief to enjoy them, and it just kinda cheeses me off when games like Downpour aren't given a fair shake because they are held to unrealistically high standards.. Hate it or love it, a SHIT TON of effort went into this game so that it could appeal to as many of us as possible, and any game in this series, including the almighty original 3.. or 4 haha, can be picked apart the way you did with Downpour when you you get too critical about things in the game that are really quite trivial..

nuff said :)

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Just Passing Through
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LOL

You're missing the point man. I never said the game sucks, or that I sold it. I even said I plan on getting the platinum trophy, which will be my first platinum. Just because I think some of this game is a generic piece of crap doesn't mean I hate it. A lot of this game is fucking sweet, it is just MY PERSONAL OPINION that the enemies are crap, the story is forgettable, and the bogeyman is super LOL. If you have a problem with that, I'm sorry.


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Historical Society Historian
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Guys, I just want to say this now, please don't let this thread turn hostile and off-topic. It seems like this is starting to happen a bit. Two, TransientJetLag, your post above is spammy! Read the guidelines and learn that we do not tolerate one word posts here period.

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Gravedigger
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@ Aerith

Agreed, my apologies!

@ Transient

I don't think it was an issue that you had a less than favorable opinion about the game, it was more the way you went about expressing it.. which, I'm sorry to say, came off as a tad ignorant and insulting... Honestly, I think you missed Juri's point.. which was that you can criticize the game without being rude or offensive..

About Downpour, let's face it.. Silent Hill games have always, let's say "borrowed" much of their concepts of horror from other sources, and have used a sh*tload of traditional scare tactics in addition to some very original idea's to make a series that many of us have come to obsess over..

So it seems a bit unfair to berate the devs for using a proven formula to make (in my opinion) a great, (if only a bit flawed) new link in the SH chain..

mmmkay?!? lol

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Just Passing Through
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TransientJetlag wrote:
Why is murphy freeing these birds? Does he love birds a lot? Did charlie? It just seems silly that a man who is trying to get the hell away from town would waste his time running around collecting paintings and freeing birds from cages.

There's a moment when you're at the orphanage and it's written on the wall (you can only see it with UV light) "I always dream with birds" or something like that >_<. Maybe charlie liked birds, and also, there's some symbolism in freeing some birds from some cages, maybe Murphy could idenfify himself with the birds, because he was "locked" in prison just like a bird is locked in a cage.
TransientJetlag wrote:
As for what I would call the bogeyman? I would prefer that they didn't even include that in the game.

True, the boogeyman is REALLY lame, and the worst part, is that they already used the name boogeyman for a monster, so I just assume they ran out of criativity and decided to create a monster trying to imitate (and failing) the PyramidHead (their symbolisms are almost the same).About the hammer, it could symbolise justice. They could have made a monster that looked like a guard or a police officer, they could have made some child monsters, and many other monsters would fit perfectly in the story of downpour, but they decided to make these lame and not original ones
/b]

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Last edited by CandyLander on 05 May 2012, edited 1 time in total.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Got Downpour? Want to share impressions? Post them here!
     
         
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I mean, if you're going to try and do another pyramid head type enemy, it just doesn't cut it, it felt way too familiar.

http://mycheats.1up.com/view/imageraw/63508/corroder.jpg

+

http://mycheats.1up.com/view/imageraw/63511/sledgehammer.jpg

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http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110519022444/residentevil/images/1/1e/Re2_tyrant.jpg

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Got Downpour? Want to share impressions? Post them here!
     
         
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TransientJetlag wrote:



uhh.. ahem. That's kinda what JuriDawn tried telling you, it's an archetypal image... It's supposed to feel familar. It's supposed to be something that can be universally recognized as a malevolant being... Is that a new idea? Of coure not, but it's an effective one.

I really don't think Pyramid Head has much, if anything to do with the Boogyman in Downpour.. I mean Pyramid Head resembles an old school executioner, The Boogeyman is more a symbol of a deep psychological chilhood fear of the dark unknown..

Why you keep getting hung up on that is beyond me.. You sound really tough to please.

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SHH Cult Subscriber
SHH Cult Subscriber
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Which is why can all just move along now. ;)

We've stated our opinions, there's no point in rehashing them. Let's let somebody else have a turn, maybe?


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Just Passing Through
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there's a difference between the familiarity of the idea and the copycat visual design they used, but I'll leave it at that.

:D


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