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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Monster / Character / Location Symbolism
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Jul 2010
Notes left: 3339
Last seen at: Kentucky
^It is, according to the map.

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Monster / Character / Location Symbolism
     
         
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Missing since: 02 Jan 2010
Notes left: 1725
Last seen at: Canadiania
CandyLander wrote:
Does it says anywhere (in some memo) that the prison is in the middle of toluca lake?

And also, what are the references to homecoming in downpour? I can only think of that painting in the library
There were two paintings--one of the Shepherd house and one of the "Welcome to Shepherd's Glenn" sign, plus the memo that specifically mentioned the Holloways. Why have these three overt references present in the game if the events in Homecoming are non-canon? Wouldn't make sense.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Monster / Character / Location Symbolism
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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For the same reason Shattered Memories references pretty much every Silent Hill game except the 4th one.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Monster / Character / Location Symbolism
     
         
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Missing since: 02 Jan 2010
Notes left: 1725
Last seen at: Canadiania
Maybe. But these were just so obvious. It honestly sounds like wishful thinking to discount all of these clear Homecoming references, as you alluded to in a previous post. Differences in landscape don't really override such blatant links between the two games, in my opinion. As I said before, Silent Hill, as a place, is malleable and prone to change.

Besides, Shattered Memories is different. It is obviously non-canon. In contrast, Downpour is generally regarded as a canon entry into the series, so references to Homecoming aren't merely fun (but ultimately pointless) Easter Eggs for the fans to pick up on, but a clear link between a canon game and a game which is in dispute--thereby pulling Homecoming into the SH canon as well. One can simply pretend that the Homecoming references aren't there or aren't meant to be interpreted as canon within Downpour itself, but I don't think that's fair, as there is nothing to suggest this is the case.

That said, the Homecoming references only really prove that Shepherd's Glenn, the Holloways, and the Shepherds themselves exist... It doesn't really prove that the events present in Homecoming actually happened. So my claims certainly aren't perfect. Still, I think what I've said above is fair.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Monster / Character / Location Symbolism
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Room 302 EXISTS, and it's a plainly obvious, blatant link to another Silent Hill game. But the room doesn't actually exist where Murphy finds it. Your argument's kind of inherently relying on special pleading.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Monster / Character / Location Symbolism
     
         
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Missing since: 02 Jan 2010
Notes left: 1725
Last seen at: Canadiania
Fair point, I hadn't thought of that. Although I like to think that Downpour's Room 304 actually exists as it appears in-game--that it is a physical manifestation of a "memory" within the Otherworld/fog world. But I have nothing to back that up and it's wishful thinking on my part, and it relies on the idea that the Otherworld can retain memories in the first place and blah blah blah. Basically, I'm full of it.

I still don't buy the idea that Homecoming's environmental plot holes render it non-canon, but I suppose that's a difference of opinion on the importance of environmental consistency in a series like this. Plus there's the whole notion of a simple retcon, as someone mentioned before. I hate retcons, though, so I hope that's not what went down.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Monster / Character / Location Symbolism
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
The thing is, Walter's World was a separate world from Silent Hill's Otherworld. Even the "memory" idea doesn't really work.

Anyway, Homecoming has plenty of other plot holes that make it non-canon. :P This is just the nail in the coffin for me.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Monster / Character / Location Symbolism

Missing since: 15 Feb 2010
Notes left: 33
Last seen at: Silent Hill, I hope.
Aura and Catch, I am so with you on both of your points, but I don't know, I really take Homecoming's references more seriously because it was in a memo about the history of the town in a library, a place where you would take information more seriously than say randomly finding Room 302.

Downpour is a canon game while Shattered Memories is a parallel game . . . So I do take what Downpour does in reference to other entries more seriously. Room 302 is definitely an easter egg, but I feel like creating a whole new story around the Holloways in a document is not. Do you see why I feel this way?

Is there any way that we can contact Tomm about this?


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SHH Cult Subscriber
SHH Cult Subscriber
 Post subject: Re: Monster / Character / Location Symbolism
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Jan 2006
Notes left: 4060
Last seen at: Carrollton, TX
I'm perfectly willing to believe that the Holloways were real people and the Shepherd house was a real place. I'll also believe that Alex's map was inaccurate because he never went to Silent Hill.
[Reveal] Spoiler:
He only imagined he did while getting electroshock'd as a delusional patient in the nuthouse. All the cult stuff? Deranged imaginings.

See how easily that works out? :)


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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: Monster / Character / Location Symbolism
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Jun 2004
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Last seen at: Georgia, USA
Oh dear God, not this again. It's quite simple.

The developers obviously view Homecoming as canon. Therefore it is canon. Simple. Any inconsistencies are just retcons.

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"He's underground now. His new name is Number Seven."


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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 Post subject: Re: Monster / Character / Location Symbolism
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Jan 2006
Notes left: 4060
Last seen at: Carrollton, TX
^Or any inconsistencies are evidence that the Hospital ending is canon. ;)


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Monster / Character / Location Symbolism
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
The developers obviously view Homecoming as canon. Therefore it is canon. Simple. Any inconsistencies are just retcons.


The same developers who've gone on record as saying that Shattered Memories and Book of Memories and the movies and the cellphone games are all canon because "canon" means "official."

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: Monster / Character / Location Symbolism
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Jun 2004
Notes left: 867
Last seen at: Georgia, USA
AuraTwilight wrote:
The same developers who've gone on record as saying that Shattered Memories and Book of Memories and the movies and the cellphone games are all canon because "canon" means "official."


Regardless of what the developers think canon is supposed to mean, you know what I mean when I say the developers see Homecoming as canon (since I know what the word normally means): That they see it as something that actually took place in the main series (as opposed to Shattered Memories which took place in separate canon that isn't related to the main series).

_________________
"He's underground now. His new name is Number Seven."


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Monster / Character / Location Symbolism
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
And the point I was making is that you don't actually KNOW that. Unless you can grab a direct statement that contradicts the notion of Downpour being a retcon. Anything before Downpour's creation isn't viable; especially since fan reactions made the developers admit that a lot of Homecoming's decisions were mistakes.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Monster / Character / Location Symbolism

Missing since: 23 Jun 2011
Notes left: 161
Last seen at: Silent Hill
Homecoming was a mistake. The producers did not do their homework when they did Homecoming.

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"The Fear of Blood tends to create fear for the flesh."
-Silent Hill


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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: Monster / Character / Location Symbolism
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Jun 2004
Notes left: 867
Last seen at: Georgia, USA
The devs who put a lot of work into making Homecoming would not be so quick to dismiss or disown the game as you guys would, despite a few perceived mistakes.

_________________
"He's underground now. His new name is Number Seven."


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Monster / Character / Location Symbolism
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Well, of course they would, they're the ones who made it. A writer on Fanfiction.net is going to defend her shitty Mary Sue character and shitty hackneyed plotline no matter how bad it is because she wants to protect her own ego and sense of accomplishment.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: Monster / Character / Location Symbolism
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Jun 2004
Notes left: 867
Last seen at: Georgia, USA
Yes, but going back to my earlier point, the developers aren't going to make the game non-canon as a result of said ego even if mistakes were made. So they don't really have to make an official statement that it's canon when you pretty much know that they're going to view it as such. Anything else is wishful thinking based on you're own personal hope that the game isn't canon because you personally don't like the game. That's asinine. The devs couldn't care less if you specifically don't like the game. That is egotistical on your part.

_________________
"He's underground now. His new name is Number Seven."


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Monster / Character / Location Symbolism
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
I seriously don't give a shit. Not to be rude, but you're being even more biased, defensive, and asinine than I am, here. Most of what I was saying were facetious statements, not hard opinions.

Also, like I said before, the developers consider everything canon. Including alternate universe stuff like the movie. They are using "canon" to mean "official", so there's no way to meet the criteria you're asking me for because the developers are planning a completely different game.

Frankly, the fact that they regard Homecoming as being full of mistakes that should've never been made, and that Downpour contradicts it on atleast a few counts, is enough for me to judge as there having been a change in Developer Intent.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: Monster / Character / Location Symbolism
     
         
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Missing since: 24 Nov 2011
Notes left: 398
Just let it go Number 7. Aura is highly reputable for being a person you cannot reason with half the time. Which kinda makes his bias comment ironic especially given how defensive he was over that Brookhaven theory. I know you didn't actually come up with that theory, but you get the connection I'm making.


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