Anyone ok with Vatra doing another Silent Hill?

[Hydra666]

Gore =/= horror

Manhunt is a stealth-infiltration game.There's no monsters, nothing paranormal, etc..

[Mephisto]

Would be interesting if the, now dead, Midway had another shot at a survival horror too.

The Suffering was quite nice.

[AuraTwilight]

Not all horror is paranormal. That's an incredibly stupid criteria for judging 'horror'. It's like saying Scream wasn't a horror movie. The only real criteria for a horror media is that it's supposed to make the player/viewer feel vulnerable and possibly scared.

[Augophthalmoses]

Manhunt was a horror game precisely BECAUSE it had stealth and snuff. It was literally a game about avoiding being murdered by psychopaths and being in a position of inferiority and weakness if you actually ran into them. That's horror by textbook definition.

That's an overgeneralization. With that logic you can twist anything into being "horror".

I can play MGS3 on Extreme while slitting people's throats, killing them by shooting them in the balls, tranquilizing them and strapping TNT on them to subsequently blow them up and I'll technically have that violence factor along with difficulty and a feeling of making the player helpless since you can't always Rambo your way through the game. Oh, and let's not forget the "creepy" walk down the river with the Sorrow in which you're confronted by the ghosts of those you've killed along your journey. Would all that make MGS3 a horror game? Hell no.

[Mephisto]

Definition by Wiktionary: Survival Horror is a video game genre that emphasizes scarcity of resources in a dangerous setting.

Of course, horror like many things, is subjective. And nobody gives a damn about opinions, unfortunately...

[Augophthalmoses]

Look, if people want to call Manhunt a horror game for lord knows what reason that's on them. But by the same token, it shouldn't surprise anybody that not many people think of it as an actual horror game. Dark subject material and helplessness doesn't inherently make something horror. You can find those same elements spread across multiple genres. You can find dark subject material and helplessness in a thriller movie (such as The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo) but it wouldn't automatically make it a horror film.

To me the primary focus of it should be scaring the player in some way and Manhunt doesn't really try to do that throughout the game. There are very few instances of stuff that seems to be intended as a jump scare (usually just a hunter jumping out from being hidden behind a wall or door. But the overwhelming focus just seems to be shock value akin to something like Saw (which I wouldn't really consider horror per se).

[Droo]

So I'm the only one who felt a crushing sense of dread and fear most of the entire game? Let's not forget Piggsy.

Just because you don't consider it horror doesn't mean your POV is sacrosanct. If Manhunt isn't horror, then what the fuck is it? It's certainly not your average adventure game. The game has so much in common with films like Hostel, which is classified a horror film.

Shock value has been a part of horror for a long time. American Psycho, Cannibal Holocaust, Last House On The Left, The Exorcist, Texas Chainsaw Massacre etc etc etc etc etc.

[Augophthalmoses]

Thing is shock value doesn't inherently make a film or game horror either. And I certainly didn't find Piggsy scary or intimidating because he came off more goofy than he did imposing. I found the guards armed with assault rifles more imposing because they can shred you to pieces. Piggsy can be easily outrun as long as you know what you're doing and there are plenty of dark corners to hide in.

But just because you find something in the game imposing or threatening doesn't mean it's scary. There's "WTF is going on here? Who is this?" type of fear then there's just basic fear of getting killed or attacked because you don't have to start over from scratch. The latter is more what I found. And I actually found the gangs not so much scary or intimidating as I found them funny as I often just sat around at times listening to what all they say. Plus, the game doesn't exactly maintain the whole stealth element throughout the entire game. While it does undoubtedly make up the majority, there are times when you're confronted with a situation in which you have to take cover and use firearms.

It's not just all serious snuff either because there is a sense of humor involved. But anyway, the bottom line is when you play the game you can tell Rockstar's focus was more on controversy and shock rather than actual fear and that's what ultimately prevents it from being a horror game to me. This isn't exactly a rare train of thought about the game either.

And what makes me classify The Suffering as a horror shooter is that unlike Manhunt that game actually makes attempts (whether or not they're successful is debatable) to scare the player through certain cutscenes, memos, the ancient history of the island, and monster encounters.

[Droo]

The entire game is you being stalked by psychotics, including one who is a naked man in a pig mask weilding a chainsaw, for the purpose of making a snuff film. Explain to me how this is not horror.

Oh shit there was humour involved. IMMEDIATE DISQUALIFICATION AS A HORROR FILM. I'll call Craven and Williamson and break it to them about Scream gently.

You're basing your entire argument against it being a horror film on your own reaction to the game. Specious reasoning. I didn't find Downpour scary in the slightest. I guess it's not survival horror either. Or any of the Resident Evil games. I'm so glad my opinion on the games can upset those game's own classifications of themselves as horror games.

[Silent Fantasy]

^ I was gonna say something along those same lines, but I didn't feel it'd accomplish anything. Opinions are assholes, and assholes have the opinion that bugs you. (not to be taken seriously.)

Anyone dissagreeing that it's not a horror game(even, yes, if it's differant than other types of horror and wasn't scary to you), just read the first line of the first paragraph here..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhunt_(video_game)
Yes it's wiki, but honestly this debate doesn't call for the voice of God either.
Back on topic now maybe?


*EDIT- Due to the weird address, you'll have to copy and past the link above. I'm not sure how to fix it due to the right hand parentheses not reading as part of the link.

[Augophthalmoses]

The entire game is you being stalked by psychotics, including one who is a naked man in a pig mask weilding a chainsaw, for the purpose of making a snuff film. Explain to me how this is not horror.

Oh shit there was humour involved. IMMEDIATE DISQUALIFICATION AS A HORROR FILM. I'll call Craven and Williamson and break it to them about Scream gently.

You're basing your entire argument against it being a horror film on your own reaction to the game. Specious reasoning. I didn't find Downpour scary in the slightest. I guess it's not survival horror either. Or any of the Resident Evil games. I'm so glad my opinion on the games can upset those game's own classifications of themselves as horror games.

You don't have good reading comprehension do you? The point of my previous post (and as I had already stated) isn't that it didn't scare = non horror. I made several points to show that when you analyze all aspects of the game it's clear Rockstar's focus was just on shock value not trying to actually scare the player.

Next time try actually reading what the other person says before giving a response. And don't get antsy about it either. Just because you're a moderator on a Silent Hill fan forum doesn't mean you're above getting your wrist slapped if you aren't paying attention. Clear?

[Typographenia]

Hey guys, what's going on in h- oh my.



I would be fine with Vatra taking another crack at it. I think they had some good ideas, and I wouldn't mind seeing them push concepts a little further. My main desire would be for them to nail down a solid/stable framerate and minimize other technical issues, but that would likely be much easier after they've gotten their toes wet on the tech they used.

[AuraTwilight]

The entire game is you being stalked by psychotics, including one who is a naked man in a pig mask weilding a chainsaw, for the purpose of making a snuff film. Explain to me how this is not horror.

Oh shit there was humour involved. IMMEDIATE DISQUALIFICATION AS A HORROR FILM. I'll call Craven and Williamson and break it to them about Scream gently.

You're basing your entire argument against it being a horror film on your own reaction to the game. Specious reasoning. I didn't find Downpour scary in the slightest. I guess it's not survival horror either. Or any of the Resident Evil games. I'm so glad my opinion on the games can upset those game's own classifications of themselves as horror games.

You don't have good reading comprehension do you? The point of my previous post (and as I had already stated) isn't that it didn't scare = non horror. I made several points to show that when you analyze all aspects of the game it's clear Rockstar's focus was just on shock value not trying to actually scare the player.

Next time try actually reading what the other person says before giving a response. And don't get antsy about it either. Just because you're a moderator on a Silent Hill fan forum doesn't mean you're above getting your wrist slapped if you aren't paying attention. Clear?

Shock value is as much a valid form of 'horror' as much as dread. Some people are scared by shock value. There's an entire horror subgenre for it. You're just going in circles, trying to base your conclusions on your unsupported assertions.

Also, way to completely disrespect the intelligence of the person you were arguing with, mod or otherwise.

[Droo]

It appears I struck a nerve. Interesting.

In any event, Manhunt was a nasty little game with an intensity that Downpour could have used.

[Augophthalmoses]

It appears I struck a nerve. Interesting.

Being firm with somebody =/= striking a nerve.

[The Chauffeur]

Droo strikes many nerves around here - none of them good and for most of us, the last one left where he's concerned.

Don't give a shit if Vatra do another Silent Hill game or not.

[Glenn]

I feel like people need to make a distinction from survival horror and other types of horror. Some people would consider Left 4 Dead as horror, but its definitely not survival horror (no lack of ammo, no running away).

[JuriDawn]

Totally in agreement with Aura and Droo on this one. Paranormal shenanigans are not a requirement for horror. If the intent of a game/film/book is to make the player/viewer/reader feel horrified, that's a pretty common sense reason to call something "horror."

Droo strikes many nerves around here - none of them good and for most of us, the last one left where he's concerned.

[Soulless-Shadow]

Totally in agreement with Aura and Droo on this one. Paranormal shenanigans are not a requirement for horror. If the intent of a game/film/book is to make the player/viewer/reader feel horrified, that's a pretty common sense reason to call something "horror."

While I prefer some paranormal/supernatural/whatever elements (and zombies) in my horror games/movies/books/whatever, I also agree. There are different kinds of RPGs, so why not different kinds of horror? (besides survival horror and action horror, that is)