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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Question About One Of The Endings
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
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swedish wrote:
Has anyone else noticed how Ending B ends up with both Anne and Murphy repeating their mistakes? Not only is it hinted that Anne seeks revenge for her father at worst, but it's implied that Murphy decides to end his own life. "There's someplace I gotta be," is what Murph says when Anne asks where he's going, as Murphy wades into the water behind the truck. Sater says the exact same lines before we see him jumping off into the falls. The contrast between the sunshine and rain in Ending A and B alludes to this even more, as if both Anne and Murphy are never able to fully "escape" Silent Hill because they both didn't quite "get it," despite being returned to the real world.

What does this have to do with Murphy not learning his lesson? I suppose it's because he never is able to cope with losing his son; after acknowledging that killing Napier wouldn't bring his son back and involving two innocent lives in his quest for revenge, perhaps he wants to connect with his deceased son the best way he can: by being dead himself.


Except we know that behind the vehicle isn't solely water; it's more foresty areas, and Murphy's put up enough with his guilt that he's obviously not going to just go and kill himself. Anne goes to get justice for someone that's been abusing his power for far too long.

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 Post subject: Re: Question About One Of The Endings
     
         
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Missing since: 10 May 2006
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Yuki wrote:
Except we know that behind the vehicle isn't solely water; it's more foresty areas, and Murphy's put up enough with his guilt that he's obviously not going to just go and kill himself. Anne goes to get justice for someone that's been abusing his power for far too long.

I'm not saying Murphy drowns himself immediately in the lake nearby, but that there is a likelihood that he is contemplating suicide. I'm positive Tom Waltz just didn't randomly decide Murphy's parting words for Ending B to be the same as JP's. Where does Murphy exactly have to go?

What evidence is there that Murphy overcomes his guilt for the death of his son? For murdering Napier? For being partially responsible for Frank and Anne's situation? When Murphy comes to terms with his son's killer in the Orphanage, I saw it as Murphy acknowledging that killing Napier wouldn't do anything for his son, not accepting that his son was gone or that he forgave himself for what he did to Napier. In Ending B, we do see Anne forgiving Murphy and Murphy accepting her forgiveness. But that doesn't mean Murphy necessarily forgives himself.

Anne isn't so much interested in justice as she is interested in revenge. Considering the entire Downpour game where she tries to kill Murphy three times, Cunningham doesn't want Sewell in jail, she wants to put a bullet in his head.

Now, I'm not saying Murphy commits suicide for sure. All I really have are two things that hint to it (Murphy's lines, the rain still pouring when they leave Silent Hill) and a lack of evidence (which can be brought up) that Murphy actually moves past the tragedies in this life. Would be really nice if I could ask Tom Waltz about this next time when he posts

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Question About One Of The Endings
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Jul 2010
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^If he were guilty he would still be in Silent Hill. That's why he was there in the first place.

How do you know she's interested in getting revenge? She even says something along the lines of, "We need to have a little talk." Sure, it shows her pulling out her pistol, but she could be just threatening him to fess up or something. People often threaten people for information and what not.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Question About One Of The Endings
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
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swedish wrote:
Yuki wrote:
Except we know that behind the vehicle isn't solely water; it's more foresty areas, and Murphy's put up enough with his guilt that he's obviously not going to just go and kill himself. Anne goes to get justice for someone that's been abusing his power for far too long.

I'm not saying Murphy drowns himself immediately in the lake nearby, but that there is a likelihood that he is contemplating suicide. I'm positive Tom Waltz just didn't randomly decide Murphy's parting words for Ending B to be the same as JP's. Where does Murphy exactly have to go?

What evidence is there that Murphy overcomes his guilt for the death of his son? For murdering Napier? For being partially responsible for Frank and Anne's situation? When Murphy comes to terms with his son's killer in the Orphanage, I saw it as Murphy acknowledging that killing Napier wouldn't do anything for his son, not accepting that his son was gone or that he forgave himself for what he did to Napier. In Ending B, we do see Anne forgiving Murphy and Murphy accepting her forgiveness. But that doesn't mean Murphy necessarily forgives himself.

Anne isn't so much interested in justice as she is interested in revenge. Considering the entire Downpour game where she tries to kill Murphy three times, Cunningham doesn't want Sewell in jail, she wants to put a bullet in his head.

Now, I'm not saying Murphy commits suicide for sure. All I really have are two things that hint to it (Murphy's lines, the rain still pouring when they leave Silent Hill) and a lack of evidence (which can be brought up) that Murphy actually moves past the tragedies in this life. Would be really nice if I could ask Tom Waltz about this next time when he posts


See what Aerith said. Also, re: remaining in Silent Hill - it's not as sunny, but neither is the Leave ending in Silent Hill 2. Anne and Murphy escape Silent Hill in the B ending; that much is clear because Anne was able to go to Sewell.

I think she's more in it for justice than revenge, because she realized at that point that trying to take revenge on someone that there is only circumstantial evidence against is bad reasoning.

Also, Murphy could be leaving to remain on the run, or perhaps to go try to rekindle things with his wife.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Question About One Of The Endings

Missing since: 07 Apr 2009
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So, did we agree that Murphy killed Napier in Ending B? I thought he did until I read this thread, now I'm confused :/


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 Post subject: Re: Question About One Of The Endings

Missing since: 26 Apr 2009
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I got Ending B, and it's specifically stated that Murphy didn't kill Napier. I don't recall anything going against this, either.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Question About One Of The Endings
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Jul 2010
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^I got Ending B first time, but I thought it stated that in every ending. I didn't really acknowledge that he didn't kill Napier. When Sewell says, "I served him to you like a fucking Christmas goose, and now I have to finish the job", I thought he meant that he left Murphy kill Napier, but since Murphy isn't going along with the deal, now Sewell has to seal the deal.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Question About One Of The Endings

Missing since: 07 Apr 2009
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Ah I see, I think it was just wishful thinking in my part for Murphy to have killed Napier.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Question About One Of The Endings
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
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RedPrismHead wrote:
Ah I see, I think it was just wishful thinking in my part for Murphy to have killed Napier.


I think in ending C it's never actually stated whether he did or not, but I've only seen it once, so I'm not sure. The majority of the endings say he didn't go through with it, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Question About One Of The Endings
     
         
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Missing since: 10 May 2006
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My bad, I should've clarified before that Murphy tried but did not explicitly murder Napier.

Aerith Gainsborough wrote:
^If he were guilty he would still be in Silent Hill. That's why he was there in the first place.

I don't believe Silent Hill trapped Murphy because he's guilty, but that the town is making it a point to show Murphy and Anne that seeking revenge is wrong and in the words of the nun, "a long and treacherous path".

Quote:
How do you know she's interested in getting revenge? She even says something along the lines of, "We need to have a little talk." Sure, it shows her pulling out her pistol, but she could be just threatening him to fess up or something. People often threaten people for information and what not.

Like I mentioned earlier, Anne makes repeated attempts to murder Murphy in revenge in several times in the game. Although she couldn't bring herself to do it the first time, she has no qualms about shooting Murphy the next two times on the boat and while transformed as the Bogeyman. Do you believe Anne has any reason to change her attitude towards her father's killer just because it happens to be Sewell now?

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See what Aerith said. Also, re: remaining in Silent Hill - it's not as sunny, but neither is the Leave ending in Silent Hill 2. Anne and Murphy escape Silent Hill in the B ending; that much is clear because Anne was able to go to Sewell.

I'm not saying Murphy and Anne do not fully escape Silent Hill in Ending B, but that the contrast between Ending A's sunshine and B's rainfall alludes to Murphy and Anne still struggling to full understand the lesson Silent Hill is handing out to them. I don't see a connection to SH2's foggy ending, since they're totally different games: on top of that, it's foggy in every SH2 ending IIRC.

Yuki wrote:
Also, Murphy could be leaving to remain on the run, or perhaps to go try to rekindle things with his wife.

The first choice is plausible, but I think Murphy realizes that his wife absolutely wants nothing to do him since she blames him for Charlie's death. That much is made clear in the notes of the prison level.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Question About One Of The Endings
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
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swedish wrote:
I'm not saying Murphy and Anne do not fully escape Silent Hill in Ending B, but that the contrast between Ending A's sunshine and B's rainfall alludes to Murphy and Anne still struggling to full understand the lesson Silent Hill is handing out to them. I don't see a connection to SH2's foggy ending, since they're totally different games: on top of that, it's foggy in every SH2 ending IIRC.

Yuki wrote:
Also, Murphy could be leaving to remain on the run, or perhaps to go try to rekindle things with his wife.

The first choice is plausible, but I think Murphy realizes that his wife absolutely wants nothing to do him since she blames him for Charlie's death. That much is made clear in the notes of the prison level.


My point with the fog is that James escapes Silent Hill in the "Leave" ending, yet it's still foggy. That has nothing to do, necessarily, with still being in Silent Hill itself.

Murphy's begun to forgive himself for what happens. I think it's totally possible he could try to go win his wife back.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: Question About One Of The Endings
     
         
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Missing since: 26 Mar 2008
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i was under the impression that the reason murphy goes through the endless cycle is because it played out wrong and until it was right he would have to go through the cycle endlessly

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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: Question About One Of The Endings
     
         
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Missing since: 16 Oct 2010
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While it's possible he could've gone to his wife to try and rekindle their relationship, I honestly believe he wouldn't really do this. What I got from his, "I have somewhere to be," statement, or whatever it was, is that he's got a life to start again, and that he'll start focusing on himself versus his history, which he's faced through Silent Hill.

Never once did I think he'd go back to his wife, but the idea is still possible and legit. With how she reacted to their child's death and all, though, I doubt she'd be all that happy to see him suddenly come knocking at her door when he's supposed to be in prison. In my play through, I didn't really learn all that much about her, so it's possible that she'd be forgiving enough, who knows?

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Question About One Of The Endings
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
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wonder's boy wrote:
While it's possible he could've gone to his wife to try and rekindle their relationship, I honestly believe he wouldn't really do this. What I got from his, "I have somewhere to be," statement, or whatever it was, is that he's got a life to start again, and that he'll start focusing on himself versus his history, which he's faced through Silent Hill.

Never once did I think he'd go back to his wife, but the idea is still possible and legit. With how she reacted to their child's death and all, though, I doubt she'd be all that happy to see him suddenly come knocking at her door when he's supposed to be in prison. In my play through, I didn't really learn all that much about her, so it's possible that she'd be forgiving enough, who knows?


This could be it too. I just don't think "I have somewhere to be" necessarily means anything bad; he could even be making up a reason to not stay with Anne (and thus get caught by the police). Hell, JP doesn't say "I have somewhere to be" before he commits suicide; he commits it in the scene before.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Question About One Of The Endings
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Jul 2010
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@Swedish: The town is showing him that revenge is wrong, but he's there for the sole reason that he feels actually feels guilt for seeking revenge. If you look in the extras menu, you'll actually see that he feels guilt for even beating the shit out of Napier and having him killed. He also feels guilt for Frank getting killed because his revenge led to it.

I think Anne killing Murphy wouldn't be made out to be as big of a deal as Sewell's. Murphy was a prisoner and they were in the middle of no where. She could easily play off that he tried to attack her. What can she say about Sewell, especially in a place that is heavily guarded and full of cameras? She could get revenge, but I think it would just be poorly planned on her part. She would just be rotting in a prison cell and going against her father's wishes. Also, she could only shoot at Murphy when he appeared to her as the Bogeyman. I don't think Sewell is going to appear in that form to her when they're not in Silent Hill.

I agree with Yuki. I don't think he just went off to kill himself. He could very well be starting a new life for himself, or could be trying to rekindle things with his wife. He couldn't save Charlie, but maybe he could save his relationship.

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Question About One Of The Endings
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Dec 2010
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The Adversary wrote:
>instead of one story, we now have 5-6 different continuties that are almost completely different from the other.<
That's really not the case at all, and you should probably reserve your unwarranted judgment until playing the game.



Unfortunately, i'm not the only one that finds this annoying....
He said exactly what i had in mind when it came to the integrity of the story...and was right when he said it made the symbolism ("of half the game")pointless....


http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... l-Downpour

Yahtzee considers it his favourite Western Silent Hill game.'nuff said...

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Question About One Of The Endings
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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The thing is, I can say the exact same thing of Silent Hill 2. "Oh, this and this represents the In Water ending...so it's meaningless in my Leave ending walthrough!" and vice versa.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... dingersGun

Sometimes great stories have to use Shroedinger's Gun plot hooks, symbols, and dialog when the outcome of the story is open-ended due to reader participation. Once you let your audience control the flow of the story, you can't control absolutely everything, and the same goes for when you have endings that can retroactively effect a character's development, such as Downpour and Silent Hill 2.

And there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing inherently wrong with that sort of thing as far as the "integrity of the story" goes, because such an integrity only exists when you go from the beginning of the story to it's end in one sitting, and then look at your reading/playing experience as one continuum. Trying to compare different endings or play-paths to each other isn't 'the story', it's some weird meta-construct thing that has no bearing whatsoever to the in-universe continuity of your character's journey and experiences.

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Question About One Of The Endings
     
         
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Missing since: 23 Dec 2009
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AuraTwilight wrote:
He says throughout the game that he doesn't kill people who don't deserve it, and he doesn't have James-esque amnesia.

Eddie in Silent Hill 2 said that the guy he shot deserved it, even though he probably didn't.

Yuki wrote:
Murphy's put up enough with his guilt that he's obviously not going to just go and kill himself.

Isn't that one of the endings of Silent Hill 2? James strapped himself into his car and drove it into a lake, despite putting up enough with his guilt?


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Question About One Of The Endings
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Quote:
Eddie in Silent Hill 2 said that the guy he shot deserved it, even though he probably didn't.


Eddie also enjoys murder; Murphy doesn't enjoy the act in of itself even in his worst depictions.

Quote:
Isn't that one of the endings of Silent Hill 2? James strapped himself into his car and drove it into a lake, despite putting up enough with his guilt?


James gives into it. In every ending where Murphy escapes Silent Hill, he's absolved of his guilt, and he doesn't show any suicidal tendencies and struggles throughout the game to escape the town with his life. Unlike James, who is pursuing an insane quest and feels there's no point in living if he doesn't succeed in it.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Question About One Of The Endings
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
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Aura's answer adequately states my feelings on that ending.

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