Silent Hill Heaven

Downpour Cons ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
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Author:  JuriDawn [ 30 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Downpour Cons ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

So what did you hate about Downpour? What failed to impress? What was surprisingly disappointing?

This is the thread for everything Downpour did wrong. If you really disliked a particular monster, but don't have anything to say about it other than that you really disliked it, please don't make a new thread, just post it here. ;)

This is strictly for noting all the negative aspects of Downpour. If you want to show the game some love, do it here. If you want to share your overall impressions, post here.

And just a reminder: please mark all spoilers.

Author:  Soulless-Shadow [ 30 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downpour Cons (That was not so cool)

There wasn't much that I disliked about Downpour (give it a moment longer and I'm sure I'll remember some things), but seeing as Juri mentioned monsters, I'll go with that first. Let's face it, they were a bit bland and boring. Anyway, I'll put everything in spoilers (more major spoilers near the end of the spoiler tags). Also, minor spoilers for The Suffering. I guess people would have already played that by now, considering it's a last gen game.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
I'm sure everyone has already given their opinion or read all the criticism regarding the monsters being boring and unimaginative, and I agree. I know that the whole point was that they were human-like or fit in with the whole prison theme, etc, but they could have been much better. I can't help but compare them with the monsters from The Suffering, what with the whole prison thing going on with both games. While The Suffering is more action oriented (so naturally the monsters are much more aggressive and brutal), the meaning behind the monsters is still really interesting, with each monster being imaginatively portrayed. Each one is symbolic of different forms of execution, such has beheading, lethal injection, and even firing squad. Hell, there's even some for witch burning. Overall, each monster is interesting and scary while also fitting in with the history of Carnate Island. So, why couldn't the same effort have been made for Downpour? I would have expected more interesting monsters fitting in closely with Murphy, his son, and Napier, Frank, and even Sewell (sp?). That just seems like a lot of wasted opportunity, imo.

Author:  warfare315 [ 30 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downpour Cons ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

For the most part, this game was better than I expected. I liked everything about it, except for the lag when it would happen, and the less-insprired-than-usual monster design. That was most disappointing. I liked the music, but... there could have been more of it. After a while it felt like I just was hearing the same creepy effects. Don't get me wrong, I really did like it and didn't get sick of it or anything, I just missed Akira's music.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Also, the Bogeyman idea was OK,but I REALLY didn't like the design of it. And playing as it at the end was kind of...weird and not necesarry. I guess that's my opinion, but I was just sitting there thinking "Yeah, I get it. You don't have to make me do this."

Author:  lucifero [ 30 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downpour Cons ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

regarding to creature and world design, i guess what is ''off'' about it that make the art style ''disconnected'' from the series for me is:

-(nobrainer) uninspired, symbolism feels forced and level of abstact is shallow......whereas the things that invoke your emotions of fear/anxiety should not be something immediately recogniseable.....
(eg. dangers should not distictively look like blades or spikes that pop up, fly around- invoking of connection to cheesy horror films or platform gameing)
(eg. enemies look distictively human)
(eg. the detail/ texture of otherworld and enemies should be timeless instead of immediately recogniseable as modern, contemporary design, therfore lacking disconnection to reality - think of the prison monsters with cliche distorted faces, and the bogeyman with plastic gas mask and latex raincoat - now think of valtiel and P head made of flesh and steel)
(eg. the otherword design looks like a fantasy RPG setting or maybe even sci-fi, with the huge fancy mechanical gears and clockwork with blueish hue, then we have the wide angle camera pan showcasing the otherworld, the style of presentation is too extravagant instead of being moody)

regarding to emotional intensity and pacing

emotional depth comes from mixture of complex feelings, sometimes dubious and self contradicting, which the japanese are often better at crafting, especialy bittersweet emotions, self restraint, expectations and never getting there
(eg. lust + shame) (love + guilt) (fear+anxiety) (hope + despair)

action oriented scenes and feels like a fantasy adventure more than a brooding mystery story slowly unfolding (mine cart ride, monocle face, sliding down drains, clockwork world blade dodging) - the action is not so much the problem but the way it is presented

monster placing is meaningless and just exist to hurt you
(why is JP the monocle face??) (weeping bat does not have a reason to weep or look like a bat) wereas the old creature designs are also meant to creep you out by inducing fear that you may become as trapped, lost, frustrated and tormented as the monsters are themselves - WITH APPROPRIATE DESIGN AND CONNECTION TO PLOT AND LOCATION

Author:  Mephisto [ 30 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downpour Cons ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

The slowdowns. Definitely the damn lags.

Author:  fudgestix [ 30 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downpour Cons ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

Mephisto wrote:
The slowdowns. Definitely the damn lags.

I'm so glad I was lucky with this, I hardly had any problems. Strange how it affects some more than others.


I think my one main gripe about Downpour was Murphy's lack of interaction with his environment. Sometimes he'd just walked past a wtf moment, like it was something he saw everyday
[Reveal] Spoiler:
dead dog?!
, but he'd have a field day talking about a kettle? I would have been happy if it was simply a text interaction, but to say nothing really felt off.

Also, there is one puzzle that uses the dualshock. While it is very doable without, the mini tutorial makes it sound like it isn't, and I thought I was fucked. Scariest bit of the game lol.

Author:  EmilietheStrange [ 30 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downpour Cons ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

There isn't much I don't like about the game, but there are a few things.

Lag, especially during very wide open areas. Thankfully, I only experienced this during the Devil's Pit area, but it was still kind of annoying. My game did freeze once during the orphanage level, and I had to turn off and restart my PS3.

I was kind of disappointed that Murphy didn't comment on his surroundings like all the other protagonists have done. Perhaps it's a thing of the past? I hope not...

The monsters were very bland. While they all had potential, the finished product of each monster gets an F or a D- from me, the only exception being the dolls and the final boss. I didn't care for the prisoner minions, or the juggernauts, and the weeping bats were rather forgettable.

My least favorite creature in this game is the screamer. They weren't scary, were severely over used, and they go down too easily. At least the dolls, weeping bats, stabber minions and the juggernauts can mess you up if you decide to fight more than one at a time. During the orphanage, there would occasionally be a cut scene where I would hear a loud, earth shattering noise, like an earth quake. During one such scene, a rift in the wall opened up and I thought, "Oh yeah! It's time for a boss fight!" Nope. Not even close. ONE screamer crawled out of the rift. Seriously? Why did the developers think I'd be threatened with a confrontation by a lone member of the weakest monster in the game?

However, all of that pales in comparison of my dislike for the chase sequences. The first two aren't so bad, but the other world prison void chase? I ran around for about ten minutes trying to find the exit. It seemed like every intersection had five different routes you could take, each of which branched off into more options. I always hate being chased by something you can't kill (this is what is preventing me from ever playing Resident Evil 3, Nemesis would piss me off too much). At least during the PH hospital chase in SH2, it's obvious as to where you need to go.

Author:  thy_butcher [ 01 Jun 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downpour Cons ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

1. The lag and occasionally glitches. The lag was pretty prevalent for me, and some of the glitches & bugs really took away from my experience.
2. I hate how some of the characters were handled, especially when they seemingly had a lot of potential.
3. I overall liked the story, and I overall liked the sidequests, but I feel like the addition of sidequests was detrimental to the main narrative. I wish there were fewer sidequests with more of the ideas for sidequests implemented into the main story,.
4. There were certain design elements of the game that irked me greatly. Ex. monsters not following you through doors or specific areas. I guess it was a loading zone, but regardless, it made a lot of encounters less scary than they could've been.
5. The "Choice system." Press this, or that, to make a decision. I hated it. It think that it should've been removed entirely, or made to feel more organic/involving.
6. The music was lackluster; which surprised me :(
7. I GREATLY miss the "text interactions."

Author:  JuriDawn [ 01 Jun 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downpour Cons ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

The only really significant gripe I have with Downpour is Murphy's inability to label a map. "Alright, got all the paintings! Now, which one of these 15 question marks was the art gallery?" :P

The handwritten notes and symbols from previous games were so much more personal as well, and I really did miss that. At the same time, I loved so much about this game that nothing about it can bother me for long once I start playing.

Author:  Number 7 [ 01 Jun 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downpour Cons ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

The prisoner enemies are two of the worst designed baddies in the entire series, following the Demon boss from the end of Origins. The only time they were creepy was when they occasionally do the twitchy thing and when two of them are on dog leashes, though that last one is more likely to inspire laughter from people than fear. Also, the Bogeyman could have had a much creepier design than he currently does. Other than that, I like most of the enemies.

Author:  dr bones [ 03 Jun 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downpour Cons ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

I agree with pretty much everything already stated. Although I did enjoy the game, flaws like really lackluster monster design that is not up to snuff with the rest of the series, over-the-top action moments like the clock tower otherworld and dodging timed blades (Tomb Raider, anyone?), annoying as fuck map system, no contextual interactions with the environment besides what Murphy is programmed to say at specific times.... all really hurt the overall mostly great experience for me.

Another major disappointment for me was the way the third person perspective was used. When I first read about that in early previews, I was really excited and hoping it would be used often and effectively, but really all they did was piss me off. For one, there are not very many of these, and most of the time it's just used in random moments, like a room that is not very significant. Also you can't run, you are forced to slowly walk around, and sometimes it's in a room you have to backtrack and travel through a few different times. What the hell is the point of that? I was really hoping for more. One instance where I though it was used pretty well was
[Reveal] Spoiler:
the sidequest where you go into the three different film projector reels.
I admit, that was pretty cool.

Author:  leftshoe18 [ 03 Jun 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downpour Cons ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

The only thing that bothered me in Downpour was the frame-rate drops in certain areas. Other than that minor annoyance, the game was perfect.

Author:  Yuki [ 04 Jun 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downpour Cons ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

The occasional lag, but what really got to me was the lack of monster variety--moreover, the fact that most of them were a bit too humanoid rather than human/abstract--and the ridiculous ladder when you first get to the town itself. I spent a good two hours looking for the damn thing.

Author:  CandyLander [ 07 Jun 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downpour Cons ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

besides all these stuff about the monster, the puzzles were also kind of weak. i mean, some of them were hard (like the clock one at the centennial building and the theater one at the orphanage), but only when on hardmode. and even if those puzzles were a little bit hard, they're nothing when compared to puzzles from silent hill 1/2/3 (like the piano puzzle at silent hill 1). those made you think for several minutes, if you weren't using a guide, obviously. and also, the plot was really weak, i mean, all the games after silent hill 4 (except for SM, i think) are kind of like silent hill 2. someone always has to die so that you can go to silent hill. seriously, where's the originality???

AND one last thing. at silent hill one, the way the game told the plot to was just different. the game didn't tell you at one moment, it gave many hints and you had to put them together and solve the mistery. the first time i played SH1, i really didn't understand what was going on, i had to play it 3 times so I could fully understand it. on silent hill 2, if you wanted to completely understand the game you have to look at all the memos, so you would understand why some of the characters were there (like angela). on downpour (and almost all games after 1/2/3 i feel like the memos are kind of an extra thing, they're not really important. i mean, the only thing that the memos actually told me on downpour that no character had said during a cutscene or something was that there was a riot on the prison murphy was and also that Napier wasn't charged for killing charlie (nothing important).

I wish there was a memo telling me stuff like who the fuck are howard and DJ ricks!!!! I wish there was a dlc, kind of like born from a wish that would let you play as anne and maybe telling you WHAT THE FUCK IS HOWARD DOING DELIVERING LETTERS IN SILENT HLIL, AND WHY WAS DJ RICKS DOING THOSE STUFF FOR MURPHY ON THE RADIO. HOW ON EARTH DID HE KNOW THAT MURPHY WAS ON SILENT HILL?????????

Author:  Kompwars [ 07 Jun 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downpour Cons ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

1. The monster design
2. The puzzles weren't that hard.
3. The game didn't explain what happened to DJ Ricks
4. The game had barely any bosses. The Boogeyman was the worst boss in the series, I beat him with 4 pistol shots.

Author:  phantomess [ 07 Jun 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downpour Cons ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

JuriDawn wrote:
The only really significant gripe I have with Downpour is Murphy's inability to label a map. "Alright, got all the paintings! Now, which one of these 15 question marks was the art gallery?"
Yes, that bothered me, too!

I, like many, was not a fan of the monster design in Downpour. I liked the weeping bats, but that's about it.

I really could have done without Howard.

I was also displeased to discover that the two bonus weapons I got for preordering were breakable just like every other damned weapon. Oh yes, how special! :roll:

Those are the main cons to come to mind for an overall quite good game.

Author:  wonder's boy [ 07 Jun 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downpour Cons ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

I didn't even pre-order the game - just looked up the locker codes online. This gives you everything, and you get to pick up extra ammo in the other lockers which automatically unlock after you choose one code to use. Very, very shoddy bonus if you ask me.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
While I liked the radio feature and all the amazing songs, DJ Ricks' thread being untied by the end of the game was a letdown. It felt very unprofessional compared to how most notable characters in past games had their ends tied up just fine, even if they were (rarely) cliche or mundane. Howard felt appropriate, but he fizzed out and became forgotten far too quickly for it to be in good taste.

Enemies were another letdown. I loved the Doll, and the Weeping Bat was OK and functioned as frightening at best, but the rest were forgettable. And, as JuriDawn said, the map was whack. With so many side quests and little features, having a million ? on the map, none of which seemed to disappear after completing the quests, was extremely confusing and even led me to give up on a couple quests the first time around.

Still, the pros outweighed the cons for me, by far. The side quests being a more common and sought out aspect is a first for the franchise, and I believe they handled it well.

If the next main game is going to have these, though, I hope the team invents a more intuitive yet natural way of organizing them. I also hope the creatures and enemies are more diverse. The word diverse is what I mean to emphasize...humanoid doesn't really bother me. Like I said, I loved the Doll monster. It was really innovative while remaining true to some of the series' themes. I just got tired of encountering so many cloned Screamers. I was actually happy to see one of the less common Tough Guys in town now and again just to get a change of pace.

Author:  five5sixers [ 07 Jun 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downpour Cons ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

Now that I'm watching my friends play it instead of playing it through myself I'm getting the chance to look at it even more objectively and I was finally able to piece the last thing together that bothered me in regards to gameplay. I've said in other threads I really loved this game and that still holds true, but this is definitely something I hope Vatra doesn't do again if they're involved with another Silent Hill title and they let themselves experiment more on their own.

They've basically just included every mechanic used in every Silent Hill game, particularly from 0rigins, Homecoming and Shattered Memories. It feels really strange to me. I think I can sort of see why they might have done so, within their respective games they all had their merits (though I still can't forgive the weapons deg system in 0rigins, it was god awful), but mashed together in this one is a bit less stunning. The new team also really seems to like weapons deg in general since it's going to be in the Vita game and I've really gotta say... weapon's deg isn't scary. It's frustrating. Still, they've handled it the best of the Silent Hill games that've used it and it's honestly some of the best deg in general I've played with that doesn't allow for weapons upkeep to stop them from breaking.

I guess my main suggestion for Vatra is to hold onto the essence of Silent Hill like they have, but don't be afraid to break away from any of the pre-established mechanics and gameplay molds, particularly from the games that weren't as well liked as the rest of the series. Shattered Memories had running and no combat because it was an experiment in gameplay/fear and they made it have meaning within the context of the game. Homecoming's more involved combat system was similar, though it backfired slightly. Just try to find your own niche, give the game your own flavor, you've already done such a wonderful job of that with the story and atmosphere!

Author:  supperhater [ 12 Jun 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downpour Cons ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

I liked Downpour alot but here are some things I didn't like about it:

- Void chase sequences. Occasionally they bordered on being somewhat fun but after repeated playthroughs they really put me off the game in general, especially considering the framerate slows down to a crawl when the void gets near and other than that I have almost no framerate issues in the game. It's like adding insult to injury that the one major issue for me seemed to happen at the part of the game that I already could have gladly done without.

- Some of the monster designs were abysmal, such as the prisoner minion. That monster had potential with the cage on the face/forced smile thing but it ended up just being so fucking mundane. Not only were the appearances of the monsters (aside from the doll who I liked) boring but their movements and attacks, the noises they made etc. were all way too predictable and ordinary. And the screamer's scream "attack" was fucking irritating and in no way scary. The things on the walls didn't really suit SH either but whatever :roll:

- It's very atmospheric but rarely that scary, and it felt like it was intentionally made less scary so that casual players wouldn't be put off or something. Though admittedly it is a game where while I'm actually playing it, it feels adequately scary but then when I think about it after not playing for a while I feel differently, so I'm not saying it's a complete failure in the scare department.

- Score and sound design were great at times but felt borderline generic other times. More industrial noise (I know this probably sounds cliched) and just bizarre indeterminable sounds would have helped give it a more SH-like atmosphere. The sound design in the otherworld monastery where there were the vague warbled crying sounds or whatever was easily one of the most SH-like parts of the game almost entirely due to the sound.

- Exploring the town was cool and they nailed the feeling of isolation and made it feel like a ghost town, but it just lacked the mystical (for lack of a better term) feeling like there is something seriously wrong with the town itself. I liked that they went the understated route in a way but at times it felt like it was just a random empty town. And of course this will sound cliched but it needed more fog, the bland blue stuff that was everywhere doesn't really constitute actual fog, though if you look up towards the sky you can occasionally see some. And lastly it would have been great if you could explore the streets at night, like maybe the section between the monastery and prison was dark. I think the town as it was would have looked amazing at night lit up by the odd streetlight and without the bland blueness everywhere.

I'm usually way less negative about DP but last time I played it a week or two ago, I was playing on hard and died a couple of times during the first void sequence which just put me off continuing, despite previously finishing (and thoroughly enjoying) the game 4-5 times since it came out. I will post in the pros thread when I'm in a more YAY DOWNPOUR type of mood.

Author:  CandyLander [ 12 Jun 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downpour Cons ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

I think that the rain should be more constant, and also, it should be more random. If you get in anywhere (even a subway), when you come out the rain will have stopped. That's not scary! We shouldn't be able to control the rain. in fact, the rainy world (i'm gonna call it like that) should show up more than the foggy/normal one.

And i also miss the dark town (like in SH 1 when you get into that alley and you find your first monsters). That was scareh!

last thing: the monster design. Looking back at the way the monsters could have been, i see that they had some pretty creative and scary monsters, but they changed it for some reason! Look at this: ... geyman.jpg ... _flirt.jpg ... reamer.jpg ... soners.jpg

as you can see, the Prisioner minion really looked like a clown, and they had even a song called "clowning around with monsters" that was probably supposed to be used when, in some point of the game, fighting with a prisioner minion. I HAVE NO IDEA WHY VATRA CHANGED THE MONSTERS, BUT THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE IT. WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU MAKE A PERFECTLY SCARY GAME AND THEN YOU CHANGE IT SO THAT THE MONSTERS LOOK CHEESY, SERIOUSLY!

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