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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: Vatra closing?
     
         
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Missing since: 16 Oct 2010
Notes left: 1129
Honestly, before Downpour, I wasn't expecting a lot of the Shattered Memories-like gameplay to return. Yet was pleasantly surprised, of course, when footage started coming out. I assumed early on that, after Shattered Memories, they'd try and return to the same forumuler they had tried with Homecoming and Origins. Thank goodness they made some different, riskier choices... It's just, somehow SM initially felt like an experiment or a spinoff, though it proved to be so much more than that.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: Vatra closing?
     
         
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Missing since: 02 Oct 2009
Notes left: 321
Last seen at: Silent Hill
I want Climax back.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Vatra closing?
     
         
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Missing since: 06 Nov 2009
Notes left: 43
That's sad, the guys had potential....¬¬

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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: Vatra closing?
     
         
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2008
Notes left: 1060
Last seen at: In your fridge
Hydra666 wrote:
I want Climax back.


This. If Vatra closes, I want them to hand the next game back to Climax. Shattered Memories is one of my favorites in the series and I'd be crazy to not want another game from the dev team responsible for it.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Vatra closing?

Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
Notes left: 8042
Yeah, but they should just do a different story. I don't want SH1 re-visited for the third time...


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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: Vatra closing?

Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 12089
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
Mephisto wrote:
Yeah, but they should just do a different story. I don't want SH1 re-visited for the third time...


What reason could you possibly have for thinking this is what they'd do?

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Vatra closing?
     
         
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Missing since: 20 Jul 2004
Notes left: 1539
Last seen at: VA
Im guessing he meant he hopes they do something different? im in the same boat. i mean, they've done 2 games and both had an association to the first game. I'm not a fan of Climax at all, but who else is Konami going to hand the series off to? i just hope 3rd times a charm, and i enjoy whatever it is they create.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: Vatra closing?
     
         
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Missing since: 16 Oct 2010
Notes left: 1129
After playing Shattered Memories, which was original in many ways even "completely new" games, such as Homecoming and Origins, failed to be, I have faith that the team could come up with an awesome original Silent Hill game.

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Vatra closing?
     
         
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Missing since: 19 May 2009
Notes left: 1543
Last seen at: Some random piece of land enclosed by imaginary lines drawn on a map based on past conflict results.
Droo wrote:
Mephisto wrote:
Yeah, but they should just do a different story. I don't want SH1 re-visited for the third time...


What reason could you possibly have for thinking this is what they'd do?


Everything they've done so far revolves around Silent Hill 1.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Vatra closing?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11386
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Yea, the whole TWO things they've done, one of which (Origins) was passed to them instead of being 100% their own creation.

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Vatra closing?
     
         
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Missing since: 19 May 2009
Notes left: 1543
Last seen at: Some random piece of land enclosed by imaginary lines drawn on a map based on past conflict results.
Doesn't change the fact that everything they've done revolves around SH1.
I liked both 0rigins and Shattered Memories, therefore I like Climax. They haven't actually contributed to the story, though. Still waiting for that.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Vatra closing?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11386
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
I can't blame them for Origins though when they weren't the ones who wrote the script for it. When your boss tells you to "Do X", you've gotta do X. And Shattered Memories was basically almost entirely original, commentating on the whole franchise using SH1/SH3 as a metaphor for it.

"They haven't contributed to the story" is dumb. What story? They've created a prequel and they've created an entirely new universe that's richer than half the games that came before it.

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I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Vatra closing?
     
         
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Missing since: 19 May 2009
Notes left: 1543
Last seen at: Some random piece of land enclosed by imaginary lines drawn on a map based on past conflict results.
" And Shattered Memories was basically almost entirely original, commentating on the whole franchise using SH1/SH3 as a metaphor for it.

It used the SH2 formula, only backwards. The resulting scenario involved a reimagined SH1 cast. What was "almost entirely original" was the gameplay.

"They've created an entirely new universe that's richer than half the games that came before it."

How in the name of Jesus can you describe SHSM as having a rich universe. Richer than half the games that came before it? It was a standalone story that was so character based that, when you compare it to the mythology of the canon games, you're left with nothing. Abso-fucking-lutely nothing.
That said, I loved the game for what it was. Still not a contribution to the main series storyline.

Climax is a good team, they deserve to take the series on their hands. What remains to be seen is if they have potential in originality (story-wise).

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Vatra closing?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11386
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
It used the SH2 formula, only backwards. The resulting scenario involved a reimagined SH1 cast. What was "almost entirely original" was the gameplay.


What is "The SH2 formula?" Because that sort of terminology is completely useless. It's presentation that matters in storytelling, not the content. In that context, Shattered Memories stands completely unique in the series.

Quote:
How in the name of Jesus can you describe SHSM as having a rich universe. Richer than half the games that came before it? It was a standalone story that was so character based that, when you compare it to the mythology of the canon games, you're left with nothing.


The mythology doesn't matter. Silent Hill has always been character-based at it's core. The mythology is just window dressing to stylize the environments and give certain characters their religious motivations. On the basis of character study, Cheryl is the deepest character since James, possibly moreso.

Quote:
That said, I loved the game for what it was. Still not a contribution to the main series storyline.


Who cares about the main series storyline? Most people are getting tired of it. Most of the biggest complaints about the series I've been seeing is "i'm tired of the cult" or "Silent Hill's history is stuffed too full now" or "Homecoming was a good game, but it's not a good Silent Hill game; it contradicted the canon so it doesn't fit, booo!"

Frankly, the series would probably be better off if everything was a separate universe like Shattered Memories was. The writers will have complete freedom to write the best possible product they can give us without having to worry about stepping on Team Silent's toes.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Vatra closing?

Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
Notes left: 8042
Quote:
Who cares about the main series storyline? Most people are getting tired of it. Most of the biggest complaints about the series I've been seeing is "i'm tired of the cult" or "Silent Hill's history is stuffed too full now" or "Homecoming was a good game, but it's not a good Silent Hill game; it contradicted the canon so it doesn't fit, booo!"

I do. And I'm damn sure others do, too.

Just because some are more vocal about "OHMIGOD!!1 GET RID OF DA F@UKIN CULT ALREADYZ" does not make it the absolute truth. The religion aspect is one of the main reasons of why I enjoy the series and I'd definitely like it if it comes back in a, hopefully, near future.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Vatra closing?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2922
And Homecoming hardly contradicts the canon, but I digress.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Vatra closing?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11386
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Mephisto wrote:
Quote:
Who cares about the main series storyline? Most people are getting tired of it. Most of the biggest complaints about the series I've been seeing is "i'm tired of the cult" or "Silent Hill's history is stuffed too full now" or "Homecoming was a good game, but it's not a good Silent Hill game; it contradicted the canon so it doesn't fit, booo!"

I do. And I'm damn sure others do, too.

Just because some are more vocal about "OHMIGOD!!1 GET RID OF DA F@UKIN CULT ALREADYZ" does not make it the absolute truth. The religion aspect is one of the main reasons of why I enjoy the series and I'd definitely like it if it comes back in a, hopefully, near future.


And yet, the cult isn't the focus of the story at best, and is explicitly throttling the story at worst. Look at Origins, which is generally agreed would've been better served if the Alessa plotline was cut out of it so it could focus on Travis.

The cult might be one of your favorite aspects to the series, but it's becoming bloated and becoming unrealistic. All of it's ground as Team Silent intended was covered, and even then, to make new content for it, they have to get more and more zany and over the top evil.

Quote:
And Homecoming hardly contradicts the canon, but I digress.


Not saying it does per se, I just used it as an example of common complaints. Some people feel it contradicts some of what came before it, making it's good ideas impossible to utilize. Another example would be Downpour, and how it seems to insist that the Otherworld in it's current form predated Alessa, and retconned Silent Hill to have this Mystical Negro stereotype that acts as the town's spokesperson.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Vatra closing?
     
         
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Missing since: 19 May 2009
Notes left: 1543
Last seen at: Some random piece of land enclosed by imaginary lines drawn on a map based on past conflict results.
Quote:
The writers will have complete freedom to write the best possible product they can give us without having to worry about stepping on Team Silent's toes.

That would basically mean: ''We're out of ideas, so we're making original concepts and marketing them as Silent Hill''.
If that's all you think is left of Silent Hill, then why not make a new series?
Want "complete freedom"? Make your own original IP.

When I'm playing a game called Silent Hill, I want it to feature the town called Silent Hill. That's not something you can reimagine with each game that comes out. And it's mythology is something that can exist with or without the cult (SH2 and SH4).

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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: Vatra closing?
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Feb 2008
Notes left: 311
Last seen at: A physiatric ward
"mystical negro stereotype".....well that's the pepsimax I was drinking all over the screen.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Vatra closing?

Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
Notes left: 8042
Quote:
And yet, the cult isn't the focus of the story at best, and is explicitly throttling the story at worst. Look at Origins, which is generally agreed would've been better served if the Alessa plotline was cut out of it so it could focus on Travis.

The cult might be one of your favorite aspects to the series, but it's becoming bloated and becoming unrealistic. All of it's ground as Team Silent intended was covered, and even then, to make new content for it, they have to get more and more zany and over the top evil.

When I say "Cult" and religion I'm technically adressing to everything related to it's mythos and hierarchy within the Order itself. Not about only Alessa and the God.

The way I see it, some aspects of it became obsolete when Silent Hill 3 happened. Though perhaps (and more than likely) people are upset about the Order because Homecoming made them bloodthirsty nutheads that created another religion that shamed the previous. I don't really know.

But Silent Hill 4 is the only game that made it right. And that's what I'd like to see happening again. If it wasn't for Walter's story we wouldn't even know anything about the inside.

And I can agree with Agent. Silent Hill can perfectly survive without the Order. We just have to take a look at Silent Hill 2. Even Downpour made it right. But c'mon... I can't give any better reason apart from my opinion.


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