Did Alessa Really Believe...?

[Burning Man]

In Silent Hill 3, Claudia makes mention in the oratory that Alessa once said that "the world must first be cleansed with fire." This gives an impression that Alessa once believed in the creation of paradise.

Claudia: But you said it yourself. The world must first be cleansed with fire.

The information sounds contradictory given the implication from SH1 that Alessa could care less about the creation of paradise, and less so the birth of god, which is necessary for its creation.

I took the liberty to check on the Japanese script, and interestingly it says something different:

Translated, it says:

Claudia: You told me yourself, didn't you, that you wished for this kind of world to disappear.

In my opinion, there in lies a difference. The English script strongly suggests that Alessa once believed in the conventional method of the creation of paradise, where as the Japanese script suggests that Alessa couldn't bare the anguish that she was going through to wish that the world she lives in would be better off not existing anymore. I have to admit that the Japanese script makes for a more consistent Alessa.

It's something to think about.

[Mis Krist.]

It's definitely something to think about--like why we get these shit, out of line translations. >:O I wish I knew Japanese. Thank you very much for taking the time to look that up, by the way. It's much appreciated.

And let's just stick a big ol' I Agree With This Post remark in this reply box because Claudia's statement about Alessa's statement really does fall in line with the sad, morose little girl we've all come to know.

[AlmostHam]

Well another thing the Jap's are keeping under wraps for themselves. Yeah Silent Hill 3 was kinda confusing to me because of the mixed elements between SH1 and 3 were a little jumbled.

SH 1 she was running away from the cult and her mother Dahlia so she wouldn't have to birth the god butterfly type demon thing.

SH 3 oh lets happily go along with this cult side by side with Claudia.

I don't know i could be wrong, since i really didn't pay that much attention when i was playing through it. So i believe that yes, in this installment she did believe.

[Mis Krist.]

>I don't know i could be wrong, since i really didn't pay that much attention when i was playing through it. So i believe that yes, in this installment she did believe.

Unfortunately you are quite wrong, should have paid attention, and neither Heather nor Alessa believed a goddamn thing that came out of Claudia's mouth.

I believe that we, as an English audience, are to believe that Claudia was simply told that Alessa wanted this, was brought up with it in her faith. That it never came straight from her mouth. Clearly the English take on the Japanese script is a different spin on something similar: the world's end.

[amphreded]

That Japanese script definitely makes much more sense.

>Claudia: You told me yourself, didn't you, that you wished for this kind of world to disappear.

Alessa wanted her life to end, but she couldn't kill herself--she struggled to live, that was probably why she told Claudia she "wished for this kind of world to disappear," but Claudia, being a lunatic as she is, twisted Alessa's morbid words into destructive ones. The question is whether Claudia really misunderstood Alessa or she intentionally exploited Alessa's weakness to doubt herself, to finally succumb into agreeing that a new paradise should be created?

[Burning Man]

Alessa wanted her life to end, but she couldn't kill herself--she struggled to live, that was probably why she told Claudia she "wished for this kind of world to disappear," but Claudia, being a lunatic as she is, twisted Alessa's morbid words into destructive ones. The question is whether Claudia really misunderstood Alessa or she intentionally exploited Alessa's weakness to doubt herself, to finally succumb into agreeing that a new paradise should be created?

I don't think that Alessa wanted her life to end at that point in time. I think she was extremely miserable of how life was treating her, such as her classmates calling her a witch, and even her mother abusing her to no end. In SH1, during a flashback sequence in Nowhere, we see a younger Alessa cuddled up and crying.
It's something that a tortured individual would say when she thinks that the world is nothing but a miserable place.

Claudia, at that point, is only six-years old at maximum, so we may assume that she is quite innocent, naive as a matter of fact. I think this is where Dahlia and her brainwashing comes in. If Dahlia somehow planted the idea that Alessa's misery is necessary, and perhaps that Alessa wished for Paradise, then with the Order's teachings, Claudia may have believed the god's birth to be the ultimate method to achieve Alessa's wishes. Also Claudia may have believed that Alessa herself was coming back to make this world non-existent once and for all, just like the Promise painting indicates.

I think Claudia understood Alessa's misery, as she herself may have been going through a similar anguish, but it was her extreme beliefs that led her to do what she thought she had to do grant Alessa's wish.

This discussion reminded me: Through numerous interviews, the 0rigins team have stated that the characters of SH1 will be coming back, but I'm wondering if anyone from SH3 will make a come back as well or even a reference.

[Scarlet]

Alessa may have wanted the so called Paradise to come when she was younger. Under the influence of Dahlia, she could have been a believer (if we can call her that) when she was too young to really understand what Paradise meant.
Alessa really loved her mother, which leads me to believe that almost anything Dahlia would say to her was considered the truth.

And why the Japanese script is not translated correctly goes beyond my imagination. Like Krist said, I wish I knew Japanese.

[Droo]

Alessa wanted a world abounding with suffering and injustice to disappear, just like the other "pure" members of The Order. Dahlia and Kaufmann had their own selfish motivations that warped their cause, but I believe that much of The Order did want a paradise like Claudia did. Their methods may have been atrocious, but few religions haven't had periods in which they did really dark things in the name of their faith.

I think that Alessa started turning to Christianity as an alternative to The Order's teachings. Note that every single location in SH1 has personal meaning for Alessa. We first meet Dahlia at Balkan Church. What does the Church have to do with Alessa, then? Why is Dahlia even there? Is she there just to ring the bells and summon Harry to the Church? Or perhaps was she also looking for Alessa there? Perhaps Alessa wanted to find a different way to paradise, one that didn't involve such overt acts of cruelty. Just an idea.

Either way, I think Alessa hates this world. It's why she retreated into Foggy Silent Hill, and subsequently tried to seal herself into Alternate Silent Hill. She wanted to prevent her mother's plot from coming to fruition, yes, but I also think Alessa just wanted to be alone (save, perhaps, for Harry and Lisa). She has no great desire to kill the rest of humanity, just a desire to no longer be with it.

[AuraTwilight]

I think that Alessa started turning to Christianity as an alternative to The Order's teachings. Note that every single location in SH1 has personal meaning for Alessa. We first meet Dahlia at Balkan Church. What does the Church have to do with Alessa, then? Why is Dahlia even there? Is she there just to ring the bells and summon Harry to the Church? Or perhaps was she also looking for Alessa there? Perhaps Alessa wanted to find a different way to paradise, one that didn't involve such overt acts of cruelty. Just an idea.

I figured it was obvious that Dahlia was there to gain Harry's trust, since there's "no way" an evil person who meet in a church. lulz.

[simeonalo]

In Silent Hill 3, Claudia makes mention in the oratory that Alessa once said that "the world must first be cleansed with fire." This gives an impression that Alessa once believed in the creation of paradise.

Of course she believed in that, she was raised by a mother who only knew The Order and, like most parents, passed the religion down to her daughter.

And I'm positive that The Order used Christianity as a cover up for what they were really doing.[/quote]

[Yuki]

In Silent Hill 3, Claudia makes mention in the oratory that Alessa once said that "the world must first be cleansed with fire." This gives an impression that Alessa once believed in the creation of paradise.

Of course she believed in that, she was raised by a mother who only knew The Order and, like most parents, passed the religion down to her daughter.

And I'm positive that The Order used Christianity as a cover up for what they were really doing.

[/quote]

Er, we never see anything Christian in the Order's mythology. Yeah, they don't outwardly sacrifice people, but they're seen as a strange cult, if I remember correctly.

[The Adversary]

>we never see anything Christian in the Order's mythology
God, angels, sacrifice, &c. . . . .

[AuraTwilight]

Yea, because Christianity invented the concepts of God, angels, and sacrifice.

[The Adversary]

Did anyone write anything about "inventing" the concepts? No. He said, "We never see anything Christian in the Order's mythology." The ideas of God, angels and sacrifice are all Christian concepts.

Dur.

[AuraTwilight]

Yea, but they're not exclusively Christian anymore than the concept of a heaven. The presence of "God, Angels, and Sacrifice" could've been present entirely on their own without a Christian influence being necessary.

[The Adversary]

Yet we know for a fact The Order was influenced by Christianity. So. . . .

[alone in the town]

Samael and Metatron are Judaic creatures. There is a definite Puritanical streak to certain members of the Order that is most closely associated with Christianity. The preoccupation with earthly sin, God's forgiveness, and reverence of saints is also a distinctly Christian flavor.

Plus, the church seen at the end of Silent Hill 3 is obviously designed in the fashion of an average American Catholic church, complete with confessional booth.

[AuraTwilight]

Yet we know for a fact The Order was influenced by Christianity. So. . . .

Yes, but to what degree is ambiguous. The presence of God and Angels could've been present and then given Christian names later, for example.

[Yuki]

Yea, but they're not exclusively Christian anymore than the concept of a heaven. The presence of "God, Angels, and Sacrifice" could've been present entirely on their own without a Christian influence being necessary.

This is what I meant.

[The Adversary]

. . . ugh.

Hiroyuki Owaku in Lost Memories: Silent Hill Chronicle writes, "The religion of Silent Hill references various elements of different religions such as the origins of Christianity, Japanese folklore, and Aztec rituals."

So, as I said, The Order is officially influenced by Christianity. And, yes, The Order does sacrifice people.