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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: valtiel ?
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Jul 2011
Notes left: 52
Last seen at: The fireplace
Quote:
He "recycles" living beings, monsters, or whatever that dies in the Otherworld. He resurrects even Heather.

Could Valtiel be responsible for ALL monster manifestations?

Sure, Samael/God is a powerfull being that lives in the Otherworld, but I don't think the entire Otherworld is HIS domain. The Otherworld is a living, and not necissarily 'evil' entity of it's own, that both manifests strong human emotions, AND is home to some powerfull otherworldly beings like God (assuming God is not just a manifestation).

Therefore, I don't think an agent of God could have such a high responsibility as to rebirth all poor souls that are lost in the Otherworld.
Possibly, he only rebirths those souls that may help in the process of birthing God.

Am I making any sense? :|

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: valtiel ?
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
Notes left: 7963
Last seen at: Nowhere
Quote:
Could Valtiel be responsible for ALL monster manifestations?

Alessa, the main and the secondary characters of the games are responsible for the monsters manifestations. And the town as well.

Valtiel only. . . Works in the Otherworld (or [Otherside] ).

And Samael doesn't exist. I thought that way too, before.

Quote:
Possibly, he only rebirths those souls that may help in the process of birthing God.

What good can a random person that died in the Otherworld do to God?

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: valtiel ?
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Jul 2011
Notes left: 52
Last seen at: The fireplace
Quote:
Alessa, the main and the secondary characters of the games are responsible for the monsters manifestations. And the town as well.

I understand these monsters are manifestations of one's psyche. But isn't Valtiel the one who "puts souls into these things"?
That's what everyone is saying, if I get it right

Quote:
Valtiel only. . . Works in the Otherworld (or [Otherside] ).

Not in the fog world? Mkay, so what does that mean?
Or do you mean not in the real world. I already knew that.

Quote:
And Samael doesn't exist. I thought that way too, before.

So Samael/God is just another manifestation, of the collective faith of the Order?
And Valtiel isn't really an agent of his?

Now I'm only more confused... : ( Will you please explain it a bit more?

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: valtiel ?
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Aug 2010
Notes left: 565
Last seen at: Nathan Ave.
Ashes wrote:
I understand these monsters are manifestations of one's psyche. But isn't Valtiel the one who "puts souls into these things"?

They are. However, Valtiel reincarnates things that die in the Otherworld. You can imagine him as a janitor of your manifestations. Although, we can only assume that in SH3 and maybe in another game involving God, as his only purpose is to assure his birth. So, this is why he is recycling things in the Otherworld of SH3 (ex. we can say for sure that the mannequins from SH2 are ALL just James being horny.. no Valtiel here).
Ashes wrote:
So Samael/God is just another manifestation, of the collective faith of the Order?
And Valtiel isn't really an agent of his?
Samael was only invented by Dahlia so Harry could assist the ceremony. The "true" God worshipped by the Order is the Lord of Reeds and Serpents. And Valtiel is his agent.
Although, God's form depends from sect to sect.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: valtiel ?
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Jul 2011
Notes left: 52
Last seen at: The fireplace
Ah, thanks for clearing that up :)

So the Mannequin's for example have no souls, but the Closers (being a manifestation of the mother of God) DO have souls?

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: valtiel ?
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Aug 2010
Notes left: 565
Last seen at: Nathan Ave.
^ I'm not really sure soul is the right word. Moreover, you shouldn't take it all for granted. About the Closer, it most likely represents abuse. Now.. it could be either Alessa's or Claudia's. So, it's not really fully stated that everything is his work. We only know that he is preparing stuff for the ceremony of God's birth.

+ I only took SH2 as an ex that there is no Valtiel in there. It's all just James. I don't think soul or not is the matter here.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: valtiel ?
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Jul 2011
Notes left: 52
Last seen at: The fireplace
Ok, I'm just trying to figure out what Valtiel's job really is.. There is still a lot that I don't understand.
Can you give an example of someone who's been revived by Valtiel? Except Alessa.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: valtiel ?
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
Notes left: 7963
Last seen at: Nowhere
^ It's been ages since I last played SH3.
I remember something about Brookhaven's special treatment rooms. Some members said that one of the memos in there was about a nurse, and said nurse turned into a monster.

Some think that nurse was Lisa. Others don't.

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: valtiel ?
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Aug 2010
Notes left: 565
Last seen at: Nathan Ave.
Ashes wrote:
Can you give an example of someone who's been revived by Valtiel? Except Alessa.
Nurses.

Ashes wrote:
Ok, I'm just trying to figure out what Valtiel's job really is..
Valtiel's job is to ensure God's birth. He stalks Heather to ensure the protection of the unborn deity. Valves represent the infinite times of God's reincarnations. When Heather dies he revives her, to ensure the goal of her path. Every time the shift to the Otherworld happens he is there, Heather's guide to the Otherworld.

Here is a link that may provide you some handy info.

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RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: valtiel ?
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19398
Last seen at: #lfk
Valtiel is basically the Buddhist god of death/bureaucrat Yama.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: valtiel ?
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Jul 2011
Notes left: 52
Last seen at: The fireplace
Quote:
Nurses.

I haven't played SH1 yet, but I remember reading something about the nurses being 'parasited' by something. If this was Valtiel's work, then how did turning human nurses into monsters help him in the process of birthing god?

Quote:
Every time the shift to the Otherworld happens he is there, Heather's guide to the Otherworld.

Everytime the Otherworld appears in SH3 you see Heather grabbing her stomach in pain, while you hear the 'baby-God noise' on the background. And indeed, Valtiel is always around as well.
But why do Valtiel (and God?) keep leading her into the Otherworld? To to make Heather remember her past; that she's supposed to be the mother of god?

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Ashes, ashes, we all fall down...


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: valtiel ?
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Jul 2010
Notes left: 3339
Last seen at: Kentucky
^In SH1, the nurses haves parasites, just as the doctors and
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Cybil on the carousel.
I believe Mikefile was perhaps referring to
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Chrissie
in Silent Hill 3.

Heather goes through the Otherworld through her own past experiences, Claudia's influence, as well as the God's influence. She's coming to terms with her past, as well as probably growing more and more hate as she progresses through her Otherworld, thus feeding the God more.

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: valtiel ?
     
         
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Missing since: 23 May 2004
Notes left: 233
Last seen at: Proud citizen of Portlandia.
Aerith Gainsborough wrote:
^In SH1, the nurses haves parasites, just as the doctors and
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Cybil on the carousel.
I believe Mikefile was perhaps referring to
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Chrissie
in Silent Hill 3.

Heather goes through the Otherworld through her own past experiences, Claudia's influence, as well as the God's influence. She's coming to terms with her past, as well as probably growing more and more hate as she progresses through her Otherworld, thus feeding the God more.


- Yes, Chrissie was in SH 3
- The nurses in SH2 also have those tumorous things growing out of their backs, at least some of them do.
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(credit to nur_ein_tier for pics)

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RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: valtiel ?
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19398
Last seen at: #lfk
>If this was Valtiel's work<
It isn't Valtiel's work. In SILENT HILL, Alchemilla Hospital's staff were all pulled into the "right side," where the parasites manifested and attacked the staff. Valtiel has nothing to do with the nurses until they are killed and sent to the "reverse side," where it will prepare them for reincarnation.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: valtiel ?
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Aug 2010
Notes left: 565
Last seen at: Nathan Ave.
Ashes wrote:
I haven't played SH1 yet, but I remember reading something about the nurses being 'parasited' by something. If this was Valtiel's work, then how did turning human nurses into monsters help him in the process of birthing god?
What Adversary said and in general we get more of Valtiel in SH3. That's why I referred to the nurses from SH3. Those are reincarnated by Valtiel, and if you watch closely the puppet nurse (SH1) looks like a normal nurse, but with a hump/parasite on her back, while the SH3 one has the fleshy and otherworldly appearance. Conclusion: the SH1 ones are possibly reincarnated into those from SH3.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: valtiel ?
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Jul 2011
Notes left: 52
Last seen at: The fireplace
So long story short... the SH3 nurses were once real people that died in the Otherworld and were then for some reason resurrected by Valtiel to be monsters?
And thus, they are no 'regular' manifestations, since they were people once?

I'm almost there... =p

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Ashes, ashes, we all fall down...


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: valtiel ?
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Jul 2010
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Last seen at: Kentucky
^Pretty much. It can be anybody, not just nurses, it's just the nurses, notably Chrissie, can help provide reason for this.

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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: valtiel ?
     
         
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Missing since: 16 Oct 2010
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Maybe something is just flying over my head here, but what/who is Chrissie?

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: valtiel ?
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
Notes left: 7963
Last seen at: Nowhere
^ She was one of the nurses.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: valtiel ?
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Jul 2011
Notes left: 52
Last seen at: The fireplace
Ok, but then... Is there any reason to believe it was Valtiel who resurrected the nurses?
Yes, we can see him dragging Heather away sometimes... and at the beginning of the intro he can be seen `fusing Alessa and Cheryl together again`. So se watches over the host that God is parasiting on.

But why would he make nurses come back as monsters? How do we know he even CAN revive a person that isn't host to God? Perhaps being mother to God is what allows one to be resurrected by Valtiel on and on.
I remember reading somewhere (pretty sure it was translated memories) that being impregnated with God is what gave Alessa an 'immortal body'.

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Ashes, ashes, we all fall down...


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