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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 20 Jul 2005
Notes left: 3898
Son_of_Kauffman wrote:
Valtiel´s job is to ensure the birth of God.


:D

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 10 May 2006
Notes left: 4658
Last seen at: My Slinky! My cuddly little pet Slinky! *sobs*
Phlagus wrote:
Yes! It makes sense! I did a little digging and found that Xuchilbara in the Mayan language means 'Flower spear' kinda weird for Valtiel OR Phead, but then again, lobsel vith means 'bad circle of flesh' or 'bad vessel of flesh' which lead me to belive that alessa is the yellow god. and that would leave Valtiel to be Mr. Flower spear.

I also belive that Pheads are like Valtiels Secret service, acting as Valtiels hands in less important matters in silent hill.

Meh, or all my theories are crap. I don't know.

...Yeah, let's go with that last thought. If Xuchilbara (and actually, only the XUCHIL is in Mayan) meant "Flower spear," wouldn't it make more sense for PH to be Xuchilbara? Y'know... since he actually wielded a spear at some point?

Anyway: I'm trying to make a Valtiel cosplay outfit for someone- does anyone have a relatively clear picture of Valtiel from the front so I can see what the front of his... apron/dress looks like? I've been looking, but all my pics have him either from the back or it's simply not clear enough.

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Valtiel shoulda starred in Fukuro :D


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 10 May 2006
Notes left: 4658
Last seen at: My Slinky! My cuddly little pet Slinky! *sobs*
...Yeah, cause, uh, that makes sense. He did mad rapping on t3h manekins lol

He's more of a watcher, anyway. Kinky bastard.

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lain of the wired wrote:
...Yeah, cause, uh, that makes sense. He did mad rapping on t3h manekins lol

He's more of a watcher, anyway. Kinky bastard.


Naw I meant he coulda been there for atmosphere. Twitchin' his head and turnin' valves. :D


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19399
Last seen at: #lfk
This is a very short explanation as to why Valtiel is the red god, Xuchilbara.

To put it very simply, think of Xuchilbara's role in Silent Hill 2. Now, think of Valtiel's role in Silent Hill 3. What common trait do these two names share? They share rebirth as their function. In SH2, James rows to the island with Mary to resurrect her; in SH3, Valtiel ensures Heather is alive so that she may birth God--if she dies, Valtiel comes along and brings her back to life.

We learn in the Chapel's library that "no religion remains unchanged. This is no exception." In this case, I believe they're referring not only to its belief-system, but also its gods. This book about syncretic religions is similar to the book of Lost Memory: They are not written by The Order. They are, in essence, history books detailing the religion The Order is based on, the towns history, sacred rituals, &c. If you'll notice--which I'm sure you have--the red god is referred to by name twice in the series. Once, in the book of Lost Memory: Xuchilpaba. Secondly, in the Painting 4.Creation: Xuchilbara. This is the first example that "no religion remains unchanged." A slight change, yes, but an altercation from their beliefs.

Valtiel is the next step forward. Another name-change.

They both have the same role in The Order's beliefs, but they, The Order, simply gave it a new name. Valtiel does have a presence in Silent Hill 1, but, regretfully, no one knew about it. The hooded figures seen throughout are there wearing the ceremonial robes "in honor of Valtiel." And, by the timeline I've presented, you'll notice that approximately the same time as Alessa's birthing-ritual, Walter Sullivan has had Valtiel sneak'd into his subconscious. Valtiel may not be there physically, but it is definitely present.

On a side-note: I have a theory that the three Sects of The Order each focus their worship on a different diety. The Sect of Valtiel is obvious; as is the Sect of the Holy Mother--their worship is centered on God. The Sect of the Holy Woman--that Dahlia & Claudia belonged to--worshipped the yellow god, Lobsel Vith, and its image is that of the Incubus.

That's mostly unrelated, but it does explain why God, Incubus, and Valtiel are all seen in the murals throughout the Chapel.

Anyway. I hope that answered your question concerning Valtiel & Xuchilbara. They are the same entity; they share the same role. Xuchilbara was just given the name Valtiel by The Order to fit with their beliefs, which is different from what it's based on.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 10 May 2006
Notes left: 4658
Last seen at: My Slinky! My cuddly little pet Slinky! *sobs*
Quote:
Naw I meant he coulda been there for atmosphere. Twitchin' his head and turnin' valves.

Ah. Well then. You should make that more clear. PH starred in it. You may have meant "appeared," not starred.
*cough*
I should clarify on my point about names, perhaps. I meant that, assuming we're only basing the theories of identity based on the names, you may as well look at it like that. It's not enough information to actually come to any sort of logical conclusion, because it's not taking into account all the other information. Besides, PH, as I'm sure has been stated before, is a mental projection of James'. He's based on a picture in which he's seen with the gods, but he's not a god himself. Look at the history- the helmets were used by the punishers and executioners of the religion. He's therefore, essentially, an enactor of god's will, not a god himself.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 06 Jun 2006
Notes left: 60
Alright, I am quite curious. As I was looking through some pictures of Valtiel I noticed he had a symbol on the back of both of his arms. I wasn't quite sure what they were, but the one of the first posts in this thread mentioned that they were the seal of Metatron. I found some more pictures (high res) that were closer and, indeed, he does have the Seal of Metatron on both of his arms...but that leads to my question.

Why the hell does Valtiel have the Seal of Metatron on his body? I mean do we even know what the Seal really means? Apparently its useless if you go by what happens in SH3...yet Leonard and Vincent put a lot of faith in it.

Haha, ok so I guess its really two questions then, but I figured it fit here because the explanation of the seal (if there is one) would maybe help as to why Valtiel has it on his body.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 10 May 2006
Notes left: 4658
Last seen at: My Slinky! My cuddly little pet Slinky! *sobs*
It's the mark of Metatron, yes, but there's something going vertically beneath it on the left arm and different marks around it on the right, as well as marks along the center line on his head.
ImageImageImage

He is the protector of god, is he not? Angels and many mythological creatures have the mark or symbol of their master either carved, tatooed or burned into their bodies somewhere, generally on hands, backs or foreheads. Think the beast (of) satan, with 666 (sic) carved into it's forehead, or Japanese monks of a certain sect of Shintoism, who would paint passages of calligraphy all over their bodies to increase the power of their meditation/protect themselves from spirits. It can be either a sign of ownership, or a mark of protection, like a protective rune or something along those lines.

Now, as for the other marks I mentioned, I'm still trying to decipher them. The ones on his head are in kanji, I can tell that much. It looks as though the ones on his left arm are Arabic, and I can't identify the language of those on his right. And it doesn't help that the marks, blurring and dirt on him make it difficult to know which is a brush stroke and which is dirt... I'm working on it. (Feel free to jump in and help if you can identify anything...)

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Quote:
I actually have a great facination with valtiel but unfourtantly there's not alot of information about him or the other monster's.



ye im the same, i really wanna knowi more about him adn thre gods cus they are so cool, but its hard to find info


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19399
Last seen at: #lfk
Hey, lookit'dat!, a ton of information about Valtiel right here in this very topic!, and a whole forum of information on the other diety's! How convenient!

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 10 May 2006
Notes left: 4658
Last seen at: My Slinky! My cuddly little pet Slinky! *sobs*
...I'm guessing no one can help with those other symbols, then. *sigh*

^People who misspell words that badly as native English speakers don't read previous posts, St. Thomas. It's times like this one wishes for a way to inflict physical pain through the internet...

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Oh, I thought Xuchi was PH. Whats PHs God name?


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 20 Aug 2003
Notes left: 4728
Last seen at: H-Town
The Red Pyramid Thing doesn't have one -- we know of, at least.

Who says it's a Deity anyway?
It's a twisted manifestation of the Civil War executioners.

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damnit... In a fanfic i said PH was xuchi


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SHH Cult Subscriber
SHH Cult Subscriber
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Missing since: 08 Jan 2006
Notes left: 4060
Last seen at: Carrollton, TX
And we all know that fanfics are always 100% accurate right? :wink:
Don't worry about it.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 07 Jul 2006
Notes left: 8
Last seen at: lurking about
valtiel is the guardian of god, imo pyamid head is after james not only as a reminder of his sins, but to drive him out of town. think about it for a second, valtiel takes up arms to protect silent hill from one as impure as james, who murdered his wife and has many torrid fetishes manifested as the monsters of sh2. valtiel will protect silent hill untill the arival of the holy mother, heather. upon her arival valtiel will dutifully watch over her during shifts in dimentions, resurecting her, protecting her from the impure.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 10 May 2006
Notes left: 4658
Last seen at: My Slinky! My cuddly little pet Slinky! *sobs*
Um... Valtiel wasn't in SH2. What are you talking about?

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2006
Notes left: 60
[quote="lain of the wired"]It's the mark of Metatron, yes, but there's something going vertically beneath it on the left arm and different marks around it on the right, as well as marks along the center line on his head.
][/URL]Image[/[URL=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9448/head6in.jpg[/imgURL][URL=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1102/right2cw.jpg[/img]

This is interesting... Pyramid Head has the SAME TATOO... i dont know where i saw this exactly, but on pyramid heads original designer pic, where you look at him from the right, if you look at his upper arm, you see the same tatoo, but it is black. check it out

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 10 May 2006
Notes left: 4658
Last seen at: My Slinky! My cuddly little pet Slinky! *sobs*
Better yet, you show me the picture where you saw this. I've seen at least a hundred different pictures of PH, including concept art, and not once have I seen this "tattoo" of which you speak. And keep in mind that the original concept art doesn't necessarily get used. It gets revised and revised, until it can even become something totally new.

Also, did you actually follow me into this thread to argue with me about something from another, unrelated thread? :| I feel like I've argued with you on PH as Valtiel before....

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