Why do the monsters attack Heather? *Big Fat Spoiler*

Heather finds out why it's true that you shouldn't talk to strangers. Or look in mirrors, quite honestly.

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Kampfgruppe Haus
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Why do the monsters attack Heather? *Big Fat Spoiler*

Post by Kampfgruppe Haus »

Heather is carrying the unborn god in her womb right? If that's the case then why are the monsters even remotely interested in attacking her? Aren't they aligned with the same god she carries? If not, then just who or what are they aligned to, if anything? Are the monsters spawned from Alessa's memories and thus as bent on stopping the birth as she is? That's why the Memory of Alessa boss attacks Heather. Are the monsters only dumb beasts following their own aggressive instincts? Or as the spawn of Heathers fears, do they seek to destroy and consume her because they are her nightmares?
And for that matter, why would Claudia sic the Missionary on Heather if she needed Heather for her plans? And as a cult member transfigured into a monster, wouldn't the Missionary want to keep her alive? The same goes for the Scrapers. I don't know if their origin is the same as the Missionary's but since they look exactly like it, it's not too far of a stretch to say that they were created in the same way. They should also have a vested interest in keeping Heather alive right? Or do the monsters attack Heather only because the game designers knew that the game would be absurdly boring if the monsters didn't attack?
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Re: Why do the monsters attack Heather? *Big Fat Spoiler*

Post by stopped_clock »

Kampfgruppe Haus wrote: And for that matter, why would Claudia sic the Missionary on Heather if she needed Heather for her plans? And as a cult member transfigured into a monster, wouldn't the Missionary want to keep her alive? The same goes for the Scrapers.

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Post by ecks »

They were trying to make her corrupted so God will be stronger.
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Post by Son_of_Kauffman »

ecks wrote:They were trying to make her corrupted so God will be stronger.
That is the general idea. Besides Heather can´t really die, since Valtiel will step in and fix her if she gets killed.
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Post by lumpo »

The game designers didn't want you to waltz through the game without fighting. :D
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Post by Kampfgruppe Haus »

Son_of_Kauffman wrote:
ecks wrote:They were trying to make her corrupted so God will be stronger.
That is the general idea. Besides Heather can´t really die, since Valtiel will step in and fix her if she gets killed.
Ok, I get it now, they wanted to make her hard and evil to get the most oomph out of their god. So the monsters are indeed a part of the cult?
I never knew that Valtiel would fix Heather if she died, I never quite understood why he carried my carcass off whenever I bought it. Or maybe Heather doesn't have to be alive to birth god?
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Post by Son_of_Kauffman »

She has to be kept alive until
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
the birth of God in the Church
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Spetsnaz sil Vnutrenniye Voiska Ministerstva Vnutrennikh Del

http://egan.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/20/california-will-survive-its-crackup/?ref=opinion

Think of Italy — which reminds me of California in so many ways — and its chronic inability to form a government. That’s California, with even better food and no parliamentary system.
....somewhere in Italy a contract was put out on the life of the article's author.
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Post by Mis Krist. »

Some of the monsters are members of the cult. Others are there, as members here have said, to further prepare Heather's body for God's birth. It would seem that Heather needs to be alive to give birth to God, since if it were just a simple matter of killing her and getting God I'm sure Claudia would do that when they first met, but it's more likely that her body has to endure as much pain and suffering during life as it can so when God's born it can avoid all that.
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Post by AuraTwilight »

The monsters Claudia controls are actually human beings that look like monsters to Heather, and exist to fill her heart with anger (it's nothing to do with evil). The other monsters are created by Alessa, representing her wish to die and whatnot.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
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Post by Son_of_Kauffman »

AuraTwilight wrote:The monsters Claudia controls are actually human beings that look like monsters to Heather, and exist to fill her heart with anger (it's nothing to do with evil). The other monsters are created by Alessa, representing her wish to die and whatnot.
How can you be so sure? It was only hinted by Vincent, and I think of it more like a sick joke rather than canon.
Spetsnaz of the Interior Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia
Spetsnaz sil Vnutrenniye Voiska Ministerstva Vnutrennikh Del

http://egan.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/20/california-will-survive-its-crackup/?ref=opinion

Think of Italy — which reminds me of California in so many ways — and its chronic inability to form a government. That’s California, with even better food and no parliamentary system.
....somewhere in Italy a contract was put out on the life of the article's author.
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Post by Kerrigan »

It is said that the purpose of "Memory of Alessa" is to terminate Heather out of mercy; that way she wouldn't have to suffer.

It wouldn't be so strange for some of the monsters to have the same intentions, sans Scrapers and the Missionary.
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Post by Mis Krist. »

Son_of_Kauffman wrote:
AuraTwilight wrote:The monsters Claudia controls are actually human beings that look like monsters to Heather, and exist to fill her heart with anger (it's nothing to do with evil). The other monsters are created by Alessa, representing her wish to die and whatnot.
How can you be so sure? It was only hinted by Vincent, and I think of it more like a sick joke rather than canon.
It was also mentioned in an official compilation for the game, I believe.

I'm not sure I can agree that the monsters were attacking her to be merciful, Kerrigan. The Memory of Alessa was the only monster that really seemed to have a good consciousness (besides the Scrapers and Missionary--they had other purposes, though). As that consciousness is specifically stated to focus on wanting to free herself from pain, and the other monsters were transfigured to do Claudia's will, I think the MoA is alone in her deed.
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Post by AuraTwilight »

Son_of_Kauffman wrote:
AuraTwilight wrote:The monsters Claudia controls are actually human beings that look like monsters to Heather, and exist to fill her heart with anger (it's nothing to do with evil). The other monsters are created by Alessa, representing her wish to die and whatnot.
How can you be so sure? It was only hinted by Vincent, and I think of it more like a sick joke rather than canon.
I'm not talking about Vincent's joke. Leonard, The Missionary, and the Scrapers are transfigured humans (along with maybe some nurses being remnants of the ones from SH1 and whatnot). So sayeth the Book of Lost Memories.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
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Post by Kerrigan »

I was just...kind of throwing the idea out there, but I'll play ball.
As that consciousness is specifically stated to focus on wanting to free herself from pain, and the other monsters were transfigured to do Claudia's will, I think the MoA is alone in her deed.
There were creatures that behaved accordingly to Claudia's whim, but it is definite that they all don't follow the same charter. Clearly, "Memory of Alessa" wants to free "herself" from impending pain, and she is obviously derived from Alessa's suffering; she doesn't want it to happen again.

But then we can look at...uh, oh, let's say, the dogs. It is also apparent that the design is derived from Alessa's suffering, plus a few other little things that only seem to fit Alessa's niche. When I thought about it, it didn't seem strange for something else embodying Alessa's suffering to have the same intention as another creature that...embodied her suffering. And, a few other things, but still.

I'd also like to point out as Heather progresses during the game, the monsters — Closers, more specifically, (where we can find a scribble of one in Alessa's room) become more resistant to damage and they become endowed with another form of attacking. I could say that they are also trying to do Heather in, to spare her, as Alessa's influence becomes stronger.

But somebody else could say that the game simply needed more of a challenge.

I was really only making an observation, but there could be a ton of reasons as to why the monsters'd attack her.
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Post by Mis Krist. »

So you were throwing the idea out there and you're surprised to see someone... what, take you seriously? Respond to it? I'm confused at your first remark. Did you not want me to say anything about it? :|

About the dogs--well, I didn't really get that from looking at them. I thought it was symbolic of Alessa's pain but that the creature itself wasn't conscious of this. That's essentially what I was trying to say, the difference between MoA and any of the other monsters, no matter what they represent in their physical appearance. MoA is deliberate in what she does because she's conscious enough to leave a mission statement. The other monsters are mindless and don't act on anything but instinct. If they were smart, they wouldn't be fooled by Heather turning off the flashlight :P MoA isn't fooled by that gimmick.

The Closers get another attack? What do you mean?
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Post by Kerrigan »

Oh, it's just when you said, "...not sure if I can agree with that statement." I said, "Well, I was just sort of throwing the idea out there", as in I wasn't praising that idea to be what I believed.

Though the idea can be reinforced.

And the Closers will swing their arms at Heather when she gets too close to them, which'll only happen after Heather arrives in Silent Hill. It is another "attack" they acquire. Also, notably, their maximum health rises quite a bit.

"Memory of Alessa"'s intentions are deliberate. Evidently, the creatures won't leave a memo behind once they're defeated — but, like I said...

It wouldn't be so strange for some of the monsters to have the same intentions, sans Scrapers and the Missionary.


And I still don't think it would be strange, considering how they retain human-like qualities.

The other monsters are mindless and don't act on anything but instinct.
I'm pretty sure the way "Memory of Alessa" attempts to subdue Heather is instinct. She doesn't exist for much other reason, other than to be a reminder. And I'm also fairly certain that if the monsters were "mindless" they wouldn't have any varying behavioral traits that make them unique.

Simply as stated, that isn't true.

If they were smart, they wouldn't be fooled by Heather turning off the flashlight
MoA isn't fooled by that gimmick.
But they can detect her when she is in close proximity with them. They sense with more than their uh...eyes, I guess.

Unless you play on beginner mode all of the time or something.

But "Memory of Alessa"'s arena is too small for anything else except for battle. I'm pretty sure it'd take the same amount of time for any other monster to find her as it would take "Memory of Alessa".

I hope that clears things up. :)
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Post by KiramidHead »

I can see what you're saying, but I think MoA is a boss, not a normal monster, simply b/c she acts on more than just instinct, you can see the drive and determination in her eyes, an intelligence not normally present in the monsters.
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Post by Mis Krist. »

>I'm pretty sure the way "Memory of Alessa" attempts to subdue Heather is instinct.

Really? I'm not sure about that, either. Wielding a pistol, a pipe, a SMG and/or other weapons are usually things one has to learn and don't know by some intuition. Forgive me for nitpicking.

>And I'm also fairly certain that if the monsters were "mindless" they wouldn't have any varying behavioral traits that make them unique.

You're misunderstanding my use of the term "mindless." Their actions are indeed mindless; they're all a repetition, a loop, and they don't show any conscious or active thought. They run on auto-pilot. The bosses think and react.

>But "Memory of Alessa"'s arena is too small for anything else except for battle. I'm pretty sure it'd take the same amount of time for any other monster to find her as it would take "Memory of Alessa". '

Hmm, I don't think the size of the place means much of anything, really. At least I don't see how it's relevant. Even an idiot could find someone on a merry go round in the dark--Cybil managed it!
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Post by Kerrigan »

Really? I'm not sure about that, either. Wielding a pistol, a pipe, a SMG and/or other weapons are usually things one has to learn and don't know by some intuition. Forgive me for nitpicking.


Understandable. Seventeen years is a long, long time. "Memory of Alessa" existed as long as Heather has and she's had plenty of time for practice.

I will agree that she is determined and persistent, but I don't think it makes her sophisticated, you know?

You're misunderstanding my use of the term "mindless." Their actions are indeed mindless; they're all a repetition, a loop, and they don't show any conscious or active thought. They run on auto-pilot. The bosses think and react.


But if any of the enemies are stuck in a loop, wouldn't everyone think, "Wait, wasn't everything about that fight with Memory of Alessa dealing with loops?"

The bosses think and react, yes, but so do the monsters.

The Slurpers, who feign their deaths in an attempt to draw Heather closer, or the Numb Bodies, which leap backwards when Heather launches an attack in their direction and counter attack with headbutts...

They do roam about torpidly, but there's a little more to them than repetitive action.

But then again, I really only play on Extreme X.

Hmm, I don't think the size of the place means much of anything, really. At least I don't see how it's relevant. Even an idiot could find someone on a merry go round in the dark--Cybil managed it!


Haha, but that's exactly what I mean. Trying to elude "Memory of Alessa" by turning off the flashlight wouldn't work because basically no matter where Heather is on the arena, she's kind of always within proximity of her. Sorry if I caused confusion!
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Post by Silent Fantasy »

well if your trying to go by cannon, and figure out how its supposed to be with the monsters. id play it on normal. usually normal on any game has everything the way the creators originally plan everything. like character reactions and damage and attacks. as in, the creators most likely created all the monsters and bosses to act the way they do on normal.not extreme x where they made them to give the player more challenge (ALOT more challenge. you must be good bro. :? )iv played alot of SH3(beaten it like 18X literally. lol), it was my first SH,and i know what your trying to say Kerrigan. but i have to agree with Krist. You gotta know MoA is working on more than insticts right? i mean, shes fights kinda slow(like an idiot really) but thats gotta be for the context of the game. look at how heather fights. :lol:
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