[Evidence] Vincent was not joking on the monster thing...

[alone in the town]

like SH2's handgun

I don't think it was random location. You can see bullet holes all over the walls, thousands of them. And that shopping trolley. How about Eddie trying to kill mockingly laughing faces at the walls?

It doesn't fit his pattern. He shows a steady progression in his madness.

[The Adversary]

You're right, thus why he shot the walls: out of anger and hopelessness.

Angela leaves James her knife. Eddie leaves James his gun.

[Laxamentum]

You're right, thus why he shot the walls: out of anger and hopelessness.

Angela leaves James her knife. Eddie leaves James his gun.

Where as I find that to be a neat theory, I still don't buy it. Eddie did not seem that far gone at that point. The knife had meaning, the gun did not. Besides, his .357 was likely taken when he fled. Can't be proven, but it is fair to say.

[The Adversary]

>Eddie did not seem that far gone at that point.<
So . . . he shot a dog b/c it was "laughing at [him] with its eyes," then shot the dog's owner in the knee, all b/c he was comparably stable? No way. Eddie is always fucking nuts—it just becomes more prevalent. He and Laura get to the apartments, wonder around separately, and when Eddie realized what he'd done, he freaks out b/c he doesn't want the cops after him.

I don't think Eddie had his revolver until he found it later on, after, like you said, he'd totally flipped out.

[choic]

like SH2's handgun

I don't think it was random location. You can see bullet holes all over the walls, thousands of them. And that shopping trolley. How about Eddie trying to kill mockingly laughing faces at the walls?

It doesn't fit his pattern. He shows a steady progression in his madness.

Although, did Eddie ever show any awareness to any "monsters"? I know Angela is debatable there, & the pizza scene makes this seem less likely, but what if that had been the signs of an actual physical struggle between Eddie & something the town manifested?

[The Adversary]

"I don't know what you're talking about. Honest. But I did see some weird-looking monsters. They scared the hell out of me, so I ran in here."

[Shadow Dragon]

I don't think it was random location. You can see bullet holes all over the walls, thousands of them. And that shopping trolley. How about Eddie trying to kill mockingly laughing faces at the walls?

It doesn't fit his pattern. He shows a steady progression in his madness.

Although, did Eddie ever show any awareness to any "monsters"? I know Angela is debatable there, & the pizza scene makes this seem less likely, but what if that had been the signs of an actual physical struggle between Eddie & something the town manifested?

I could be wrong, but I think Eddie does mention something about monsters in your first encounter with him. As for him not being that unstable yet, remember that there was a dead body in the same room as him. Who he denies killing right away, before James even mentions anything about it. I think Eddie was the one who killed that person.

[Kerrigan]

Whenever I think of the items in the Silent Hill games I'm just reminded of that quote...

You will encounter a wall of darkness, and the wrath of the underworld. These will help you.

It's likely that some of the items and weapons are probably just as "real" as some of the denizens, and they've been provided to give whoever an edge against the challenges they'll face.

[Doo-glas]

if the hand gun in SH2 belongs to Eddie then who does the chainsaw you find stuck in a log belong to?

[alone in the town]

You're right, thus why he shot the walls: out of anger and hopelessness.

Angela leaves James her knife. Eddie leaves James his gun.

I was referring less to the presence of bullet holes and more to the fact that there are a vast, impossible number of them. I could accept that he broke down and fired his gun empty, but the condition of the room suggests that he carried hundreds of rounds and spent about a half-hour using them up.

[Lemex]

That and if it was Eddy, he also had to spend a lot of time picking up all of the spent shells that are not in the room, and the clips/ammo boxes, which just seems pointless.

[clips]

I think douglas defintely sees the same monsters as heather...he even refers to them right before heather enters the subway.....eddie states that he sees them too, but it could be that he's lying about seeing them at all because throughout the whole game he's killing animals and innocent people....he even describes these people he's killed and he seems even less aware of the monsters he's seen when he first encoutered james

[Altrus]

I still think Vincent meant he idolizes or worships the monsters, but that's just my opinion. Although, the mumbling could have been the monster chowin' down on the dead body. I don't think this is concrete evidence, but I'd accept it as a pretty solid theory. The idea of Heather walking in on two people dry humping each other in a store at the mall, and then killing them because of the otherworld just seems a bit outlandish is all.

YEa, thats about what I've always gone with. Even if they look exactly the same physically to him as to Heather, he still doesn't think of them as monsters when he looks at them because of his beliefs.

I've always thought that the voices you hear where simply "echoes" of people in the "real world"
like meanwhile in the real world the mall is completely populated and you can briefly faintly hear them before plunged into THE HORROR

Yep, thats also what I believed. Kinda like in the movie when the dad can smell Rose's perfume.

I've just never really liked the alternatives. Heather running around shooting a bunch of random people just kinda ruins my image of everything. Likewise I like the idea of the otherworld being a space just barely off of reality, I guess I just like the romanticized image of it.

[Mephisto]

Heather running around shooting a bunch of random people just kinda ruins my image of everything.

Same here. I just can't believe that she was killing real people. That's why I believe that Vincent's comments were full of sarcasm.

[five5sixers]

I think Vincent's comment was only inclusive to the Church level. More specifically, I believe he was referring to the Scrapers in particular, as Lost Memories states that they are, in fact, real, living cult members, they just appear as Monsters.

The Missionary is where it describes this, but in my opinion, the same goes for Scrapers since they seem to follow the same rules and look really similar.

MISSIONARY

Area: Apartment Building
Character: Humanoid monster that obeys Claudia and carries out her demands.
Metaphor: Cult member transfigured by Claudia's power, to Heather's eyes the appearance it takes is that of a monster.

SCRAPER

Area: Church
Character: Humanoid monster that carries a weapon in each hand. Moves with great speed.
Metaphor: "Scraper". So named for its habit of incessantly scraping the two sharp-edged tools it carries together.

So I think if Vincent's talking about ANY monsters that are actually not monsters, it would be them and only them.

[DarthVasilius]

If you allow the possibility of human nature of some monsters, there is no sence to deny this possibility for other monsters. Yes, it can be too cruel.

[Yuki]

If you allow the possibility of human nature of some monsters, there is no sence to deny this possibility for other monsters. Yes, it can be too cruel.

We know for a fact that one particular type of monster is indeed a human transfigured by the Order. Anything other than that is speculation, which I personally think is wrong, seeing as Heather was never aggressively chased by police (or monsters, pretty much; they'd chase her if she got in the vicinity).

[AuraTwilight]

Not to mention that pretty much none of the other monsters have any sort of human shape. I'd certainly like an explanation for how the Split Worm was human.

[Kerrigan]

The only monsters that don't look very human to me are the Doubleheads, Numb Bodies, and the Split Worm.

I don't know what to make of the Glutton, though, but anyway...

All of the others are at least vaguely human; the Pendulum appears to be two human forms connected at their torsos, the Closer, Slurpers (the copper type with the beak and the grey type without the beak), and Insane Cancers all have exaggerated human forms, the Nurses are essentially human; all of the bosses are quite human in appearance, too, save for the aforesaid Split Worm.

—

To me it's more a matter of dividing the monsters that Alessa created to end herself from the others that were daunting and in her way.

The Missionary and Scrapers probably wielded daggers similar to the one Claudia had. To Heather, however, they appeared as an imposingly large set of blades; if the Missionary had those blades in reality, Harry's body would probably be in a much...lesser condition. Anyway, because they are armed and tend to attack her, they appear to be monsters to her.

Leonard also attacked Heather out of his general craziness. She justifies her self-defense with "well, I guess you're not a person, anyway"; but judging by Claudia's reaction, he was most likely a real person that posed a threat to Heather (consider what she gathered of him before she met him), so she ended up killing him.

That's just what I think, though.

[Ghost]

Reading most of the opinions I started to believe that Vincent was referring specifically to the Missionary and the Scrapers. For he knew Claudia had powers (I don't have powers like you two) for this and he should personally know some of the Cult members that were transfigured.

And in the same time he was provoking Heather, not telling what he was talking about.

The description on The Lost Memories reinforce that "to Heather's eyes the appearance it takes is that of a monster."

(Monsters? They look like monsters to you?)


Also, he talks about her somewhat specifically on the Church (You're the worst person in this room / You come here and enjoy spilling their blood).