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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: [Evidence] Vincent was not joking on the monster thing..
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Aug 2012
Notes left: 186
About the mumbling at the corridor, I always had the impression that it was Douglas and Claudia talking about Heather, how he found her, and stuff like that.
And Vincent wasn't joking at all. He saw some of the monsters (Like the Scrappers, I believe) as people. But he said it was a joke so Heather would keep on going a ultimately stop the Birth of God. Vincent is a bad liar. You can see how bad he lies at the hotel, trying to convince Heather that Douglas has left her a message, when he probably said the same thing to Douglas.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: [Evidence] Vincent was not joking on the monster thing..
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Dec 2010
Notes left: 111
Last seen at: Your Bedroom Window
HeartlessBastard wrote:
About the mumbling at the corridor, I always had the impression that it was Douglas and Claudia talking about Heather, how he found her, and stuff like that.
And Vincent wasn't joking at all. He saw some of the monsters (Like the Scrappers, I believe) as people. But he said it was a joke so Heather would keep on going a ultimately stop the Birth of God. Vincent is a bad liar. You can see how bad he lies at the hotel, trying to convince Heather that Douglas has left her a message, when he probably said the same thing to Douglas.


How do you know that A: Vincent was seeing them as people and B: what he sees, how could you be sure if they were definitely people? As we know, each individual person that enters Silent Hill sees things in his/her own way.

But as mentioned many times, Alessa and Heather brought the nightmare to life for all to see, so from my personnal perspective I actually think he was joking and sees them as monsters, just as Heather did.

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: [Evidence] Vincent was not joking on the monster thing..
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Aug 2012
Notes left: 186
Dr-G0nz0 wrote:
But as mentioned many times, Alessa and Heather brought the nightmare to life for all to see, so from my personnal perspective I actually think he was joking and sees them as monsters, just as Heather did.


Lost Memories confied that Vincent wasn't joking. Watch the cutscene again, he's trying to make Heather think that she's no better than him. He steals money from the church and tries to kill god, and Heather kill people. When he noticed that knowing that the monsters were people again would possibly stop Heather from achieving his goals, he immanently say "it's just a joke". Vincent is a bad liar, and he had no reason to make that joke.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: [Evidence] Vincent was not joking on the monster thing..
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Nov 2011
Notes left: 142
I'm bumping this up, but this isn't even that old. And I haven't read what everyone said, too many stuff XD. this is just what I understood from the game.

Vincent was being sarcastic (trying to scare heather) and heather feels bad because the monsters look like people to her. Yes, many of them do. so, the monsters (with exceptions like the dogs and pendulum) show how heather feels angry towards other people like the cult and dahlia. and if she kills many monsters, it feels to heather like she's letting the hate she has towards people to go out, making her a psycopath. short story short: heather thinks the monsters are people, but they really aren't. they're distorted versions of people. this explains why heather could hear a conversation before she found that monster, or how she feels terrified when vincent says the monsters are people. and book of lost memories even say stuff like "the scraper is a humanoid monster"

I don't see why they (monsters) would be people. is heather just walking around silent hill and other places killing people? what people? this is silent hill (wich to most is an all empty town) and heather is in the otherworld, wich, acording to many people, is another dimension. there would be no people in this other dimention. and the fact that you can kill 3000 "people" during the course of the game is just ridiculous. and the fact that nobody would be able to defeat heather, a weak teenage girl is even worse.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: [Evidence] Vincent was not joking on the monster thing..
     
         
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Missing since: 22 Jun 2006
Notes left: 1924
Last seen at: Katz Street
Quote:
heather feels bad because the monsters look like people to her.

They look like monsters to her.

Quote:
so, the monsters (with exceptions like the dogs and pendulum) show how heather feels angry towards other people like the cult and dahlia.

Or it could be Claudia using Heathers own fears.

Quote:
and if she kills many monsters, it feels to heather like she's letting the hate she has towards people to go out, making her a psycopath

She has no issues killing monsters.

Quote:
this explains why heather could hear a conversation before she found that monster, or how she feels terrified when vincent says the monsters are people. and book of lost memories even say stuff like "the scraper is a humanoid monster"

You so sure it's a conversation?
She gasped because she thought she had been killing monsters and didn't enjoy the thought that she may have been killing people by mistake.
The book says that because they are humans just as the missionary was. You could say they were who Vincent was referring to.

Quote:
this is silent hill (wich to most is an all empty town)

It's not empty. Not even to most.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: [Evidence] Vincent was not joking on the monster thing..
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Nov 2011
Notes left: 142
Silent Fantasy wrote:
Quote:
heather feels bad because the monsters look like people to her.

They look like monsters to her.


humanoid monsters, just like the ones in downpour (downpour also has the karma system)

Silent Fantasy wrote:
Quote:
so, the monsters (with exceptions like the dogs and pendulum) show how heather feels angry towards other people like the cult and dahlia.

Or it could be Claudia using Heathers own fears.


I don't get it? is claudia making the monsters happen? As far as I know it's the god inside her that's making the nightmare just like it did to alessa. So, it's all heathers. I don't know, elaborate a little or at least explain what you said.

Silent Fantasy wrote:
Quote:
and if she kills many monsters, it feels to heather like she's letting the hate she has towards people to go out, making her a psycopath

She has no issues killing monsters.


she asks herself if they are people and if she kills many monsters she gets the bad ending where she goes psycho. yes she does.

Silent Fantasy wrote:
Quote:
this explains why heather could hear a conversation before she found that monster, or how she feels terrified when vincent says the monsters are people. and book of lost memories even say stuff like "the scraper is a humanoid monster"

You so sure it's a conversation?
She gasped because she thought she had been killing monsters and didn't enjoy the thought that she may have been killing people by mistake.
The book says that because they are humans just as the missionary was. You could say they were who Vincent was referring to.


Exactly! "she gasped because she thought she had been killing monsters and didn't enjoy the thought that she may have been killing people by mistake" is exactly what I said in my post! she fears that some monsters could be actual people! but vincent was still joking.

It wasn't exactly a conversation. It sounded human, at least.

Silent Fantasy wrote:
Quote:
this is silent hill (wich to most is an all empty town)

It's not empty. Not even to most.


to some, it's empty: and that would make it impossible for anyone to be there and to be killed by the serial killer heather.
to others, the game takes place in a parallel dimension, where there would be no people in the first place so heather wouldn't find anyone to kill.

You have no evidence that the multiple dimension theory that came with the movie is right as much as nobody has enough evidence to prove that the other theory that everything happens in our dimension is the right one. both theories make sense and, in all games, you can look trough both points of view and they would still make sense.

And masahiro ito answered someone on twitter that he otherworld wasn't in a different dimension and that what was said about swifting trough worlds in SH3's making video was a translation mistake. (but again, that could just have been another translation problem because his english really sucks). let's please not get into this discussion right now. it doesn't really make a big difference if the nightmares are happening in a different dimension and the town has people or not.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: [Evidence] Vincent was not joking on the monster thing..
     
         
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Missing since: 22 Jun 2006
Notes left: 1924
Last seen at: Katz Street
I'm tired, so i'm just going to type.
For the Claudia thing, there's no real proof of it, and I probobly should have just stated that it was just one theory out of a few. I actually agree that it's mainly God that is creating these creatures, but for some reason I vaguly remember looking up and reading about a theory on how Claudia had something to do with it along side God. Considering I don't remember the details after all these years, I shouldn't have said that. So well agree on this one.

She has no issues killing MONSTERS. She has no second thoughts or a care in the world when it comes to killing them, because she does not think and has no reason to think that they are or may be human. Only the scrapers and the missionaries are humans perceived as monsters by Heather due to Claudia.
The Book of Lost Memories even out right says that about the Missionary.
You could argue that the nurses may be human too, but it's just a theory you can take as you like.

yes, it did sound human.

As for the different dimensions, I take it more as an overlapping reality instead of a new space itself. And the multiple dimensions theory was around long before the movie, it's just done differently in the movies. But I don't remember saying anything about either theory.

I'm sorry I gave no quotes, but i'm sure you will figure out what i'm replying to. (I hope that's not too big of an assumption)
I'll most likely go back and edit this when I have time tomarrow.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: [Evidence] Vincent was not joking on the monster thing..
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11370
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Just a clarifier; aside from the monsters that are humans-made-to-look-like-monsters by Claudia's powers, all the monsters are embodiments of Alessa's suicidal tendencies. This is factual.

Quote:
And masahiro ito answered someone on twitter that he otherworld wasn't in a different dimension and that what was said about swifting trough worlds in SH3's making video was a translation mistake.


1) He never said this, and 2) Even if he did, he contradicts it in more elaborate twitter messages where he describes the Otherworld as a "bodily dream", and 3) Other Team Silent members have treated the Otherworld as a separate dimension since the first game.

Anyone who tells you there aren't multiple dimensions in Silent Hill is either misinformed, stupid, or lying.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: [Evidence] Vincent was not joking on the monster thing..
     
         
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Missing since: 22 Jun 2006
Notes left: 1924
Last seen at: Katz Street
Quote:
Just a clarifier; aside from the monsters that are humans-made-to-look-like-monsters by Claudia's powers, all the monsters are embodiments of Alessa's suicidal tendencies. This is factual.

I remember that now. I thought I was getting confused as hell on that subject. lol


Quote:
Anyone who tells you there aren't multiple dimensions in Silent Hill is either misinformed, stupid, or lying.

Or they listened to TP. I remember them screaming out in a video they made that there are no differing dimensions in Silent Hill. :|
I'm sure nearly everyone here knows about them by now though.

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: [Evidence] Vincent was not joking on the monster thing..
     
         
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Missing since: 30 Jul 2011
Notes left: 450
Its interesting how Alessa wanted the world to burn and inflict harm on others just as harm was done on her. We know that Heather killed Leonard, and the guy who killed her father. Then there's the cult members in the church she kills. So Vincent is at least partially correct.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: [Evidence] Vincent was not joking on the monster thing..
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Nov 2011
Notes left: 142
Quote:
Quote:
And masahiro ito answered someone on twitter that he otherworld wasn't in a different dimension and that what was said about swifting trough worlds in SH3's making video was a translation mistake.


1) He never said this, and 2) Even if he did, he contradicts it in more elaborate twitter messages where he describes the Otherworld as a "bodily dream", and 3) Other Team Silent members have treated the Otherworld as a separate dimension since the first game.


1) he said it and I think it was this weeek. 2) He doesn't contradict it by saying it's a bodily dream. If you think about it, he actually supports it. in silent hill 1, we're in alessa's dream, not another dimension where your fears come to reality. What other team silent member said what and when?

I think that the otherworld is our world changing it's form, not another dimention invading it.
If angela is in a different dimension than james, and that is the reason why she can see the fire during the entire game and james can't, then why can she also see james and talk with him? And if laura was in the same dimention as james, why couldn't she see monsters? wasn't she in the same dimension? then why can james and her see each other?

Quote:
Anyone who tells you there aren't multiple dimensions in Silent Hill is either misinformed, stupid, or lying.

and this is why I love discussions in this forum.

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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: [Evidence] Vincent was not joking on the monster thing..
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2010
Notes left: 1446
Last seen at: Chicago
CandyLander wrote:
1) he said it and I think it was this weeek.


I looked over his twitter and I couldn't find anything like that in the last 2 weeks. Can you provide a link to that tweet?

CandyLander wrote:
in silent hill 1, we're in alessa's dream, not another dimension where your fears come to reality. What other team silent member said what and when?


Isn't being inside "a dream" basically the same thing as being in another dimension? I don't understand the distinction. From the Koshiki Guidebook: "As for the "right side" and the "reverse side," in short, it isn't that one is reality and one is a dream; the fact is that neither is reality" I take that to mean that the otherworld is literally a separate place from the real world.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: [Evidence] Vincent was not joking on the monster thing..
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Nov 2011
Notes left: 142
sorry, I think I'm getting crazy. When I posted that it was late here and I forgot to mention that I saw it this week, but I think the actuall tweet was in march XD. I'm seriously sorry.

Image

the questions were:

for the first tweet - So you meant it more like the real world changing and twisting into another world, rather than going to a separate ‘parallel world’?

for the 2nd and 3rd- But In the ‘Making Of’ video for SH3, when you explain the meaning behind Valtiel… the subtitles say ‘In Silent Hill 3, you go back and fourth between the real world and a parallel world. Valves that the monster opens and closes represents the passage of these two worlds.’

This a little unclear for most people, are you actually saying “parallel world” in Japanese? Did you mean ‘Otherworld?’ Can you please explain in better detail behind these words? Thank you.

sorry if I'm a slowpoke for finding these only now and you already knew it.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: [Evidence] Vincent was not joking on the monster thing..
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11370
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
It seems he's calling the Otherworld another world that exists in the same dimension, which given his tenuous grasp on English could mean ANYTHING. If he is saying that there's only one actual 'world', he's outranked and contradicted by people who knows the story better than he does, such as Owaku.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: [Evidence] Vincent was not joking on the monster thing..
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2010
Notes left: 1446
Last seen at: Chicago
CandyLander wrote:
When I posted that it was late here and I forgot to mention that I saw it this week, but I think the actuall tweet was in march XD. I'm seriously sorry.


That's okay.

So the first tweet... "Silent Hill's another world isn't 'if-world.'" "If-world" is a pretty weird term so it's hard to know what he means, but my guess is that he meant something like Marvel's "What if..." comics. Which makes me think that he sees the term "parallel dimension" as something that takes place in a completely different universe. If so, it's no wonder he would say that Silent Hill's another world isn't an "if-world."

In the second tweet, he says "Maybe it's the "Otherworld," the world not real world." He says right there that the otherworld is not the real world. Seems to obviously go against the idea that the otherworld *is* the real world but just twisted.

In the third tweet, he seems to be making a distinction between the two worlds concept and a two dimensions concept. Seems like he's saying it's two different world, but not two different dimensions. At least that's the way I read it.

So, I think the problem we're having here is just one of semantics. Ito just doesn't seem to like the term "parallel dimension" for whatever reason, but I feel like he was pretty clear that the otherworld is a different place from our world. Do you agree with my interpretation?

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