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Valtiel - what's next?
http://silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23292
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Author:  Henry Kane [ 17 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Valtiel - what's next?

I'm sorry if this was discussed before (I didn't noticed though), but what do you think happened to Valtiel in the end? Did he just disappear after God's death, because he wasn't needed anymore?

Author:  SilentWren [ 17 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Valtiel - what's next?

Never gave it much thought before.
He probably just went off into the ether to wait until god needs him again. Idk.

Author:  Don, Aman [ 18 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Valtiel - what's next?

From what I understand, Valtiel is involved in the events of SH4, right?
[Reveal] Spoiler:
He was sneaked into Walter's subconscious well before the events of SH3 and is trying to aid the birth of god through the Ritual of the 21 Sacraments.
I could have this somewhat wrong, though. Valtiel can be a bit confusing at times.

Author:  Corva09_im [ 18 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Valtiel - what's next?

^ I think you're right, and this also:

SilentWren wrote:
He probably just went off into the ether to wait until god needs him again. Idk.

Author:  SilentWren [ 18 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Valtiel - what's next?

I wasn't aware of the information in that spoiler....

But, yeah. It doesn't make much sense to have a "new" valtiel for every manifestation of god. He's probably still up in rafters waiting.

and watching......

Author:  Henry Kane [ 18 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Valtiel - what's next?

Don, Aman wrote:
From what I understand, Valtiel is involved in the events of SH4, right?

He was, but the timeline confuses me. I thought it happened before the events in SH3 or even during them (I remember reading a discussion about this somewhere on the forum).

Author:  Doctor Eggnog [ 18 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Valtiel - what's next?

^Hmm, I thought I heard once that SH3 happened in the 90's and SH4 was present day. But 4 does feel more old, and I think I'd somehow like the story better if it happened before 3, it'd be less like "Oh, this again."

Author:  The Adversary [ 18 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Valtiel - what's next?

When Valtiel was snuck into Walter's subconsciousness, it was when Wally was a kid, in the '70s. Silent Hill 3 happens in the late '90s.

Author:  AuraTwilight [ 18 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Valtiel - what's next?

If Valtiel is truly what he is claimed to be, then he's sitting around in Heaven, waiting for some pregnant holy mother to give him a job again.

If he's a construct like pretty much everything else, then he stopped existing after that moment.

Author:  Henry Kane [ 18 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Valtiel - what's next?

AuraTwilight wrote:
If Valtiel is truly what he is claimed to be

You mean if he's an angel? I don't see any reasons for him not to be, since it was said officially.

Author:  Ryantology [ 18 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Valtiel - what's next?

Henry Kane wrote:
AuraTwilight wrote:
If Valtiel is truly what he is claimed to be

You mean if he's an angel? I don't see any reasons for him not to be, since it was said officially.


It's also said that the various creatures called 'God' are fundamentally no different from any other garden-variety monster seen in the series. No reason to believe that 'angels' fare any better.

Author:  Don, Aman [ 18 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Valtiel - what's next?

The Adversary wrote:
When Valtiel was snuck into Walter's subconsciousness, it was when Wally was a kid, in the '70s. Silent Hill 3 happens in the late '90s.


My friend and I were talking about this last night, and I have a question regarding the nature of Valtiel. If he was sneaked into Walter's subconscious in the 70's, and we see him in SH3 (obviously), then is it safe to assume that either A) Valtiel can be in two places at once, or B) the Valtiel(s) that are involved in the games are just manifested based on Jimmy Stone's and Claudia's (?) interpretations of Valtiel's role in the Order's religion?

Author:  SilentWren [ 19 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Valtiel - what's next?

All the "gods" that we see in the series are manifestations of god, not god. I always assumed that the protector/angel/whatever would need to know his way around better than the typical construct.
Now that I'm thinking about it, he might not necessarily deserve the special attention.

It's not looking like we'll have to deal with him much in future games, so that's a little sad anyway.

EDIT: @^
He could be a new manifestation just like god, too. Either works. :)

Author:  The Adversary [ 19 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Valtiel - what's next?

>then is it safe to assume that either [. . .]<
It's best to think that after Walter died—er, was assumed into heaven—Valtiel left his subconsciousness.

Author:  Don, Aman [ 19 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Valtiel - what's next?

^Ah, I see. So since Walter "died" in prison before the events of SH3, Valtiel was free to pursue the whole Heather scenario. Thank you for clearing that up.

Author:  mikefile [ 19 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Valtiel - what's next?

But, wait.. I always had a bit of difficulties with the timeline.. but I thought that Walter was just Dahlia's backup of the backup plan, in case Claudia failed ( I' m refering to her list of predispositions:
1. Dahlia's original plan of giving birth to God by reuniting Alessa and Cheryl -SH1
2. Claudia's plan -SH3
3. Walter's plan -SH4 )
.. in other words: I thought that Alessa was her predisposition in giving birth to God, while Walter was the consolation price. But if Valtiel got into Walter's subconscious before gettin' into Claudia's; it would mean that the events of the 21 Sacraments involving Walter began before Claudia's plan involving Alessa/Heather. ?

Author:  The Adversary [ 19 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Valtiel - what's next?

The "backup plan" doesn't make much sense, and I can't see why people still follow it. Walter was a part of the Sect of the Holy Mother; Alessa, the Sect of the Holy Woman. If anything, these two sects, with the different birthing processes, were meant to work together—as father and mother—but due to each sect's propensity to dickery, it never worked out.

Also—Valtiel isn't in Claudia. At all.

Author:  Henry Kane [ 19 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Valtiel - what's next?

alone in the town wrote:
It's also said that the various creatures called 'God' are fundamentally no different from any other garden-variety monster seen in the series. No reason to believe that 'angels' fare any better.

I think certain hierarchy does exist, take Pyramid Head for example: even though particular manifestations of him can "die", like in SH2, himself he's virtually immortal and indestructible, summoned again and again when needed. And even he is modelled after Valtiel, i.e. standing lower than him in that hierarchy.

I thought before if Valtiel also has other priorities besides looking after the Holy Mother (like being responsible for Otherworld shifts), then he's a kinda vital figure in SH mythology and can't be just discarded like any other creature, but now I have doubts.

Author:  trai has cake [ 20 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Valtiel - what's next?

Seeing as how I'd never played 4 I merely assumed Valtiel just went on break. But going on what you said about him sneaking into Walters subconscious and events in 4 transpired before events in 3 - I'd say that after Harry got done with God, Valtiel moved on to trying to birth who through other means. And then after that failed (i'm guessing as I haven't played 4) he moved on back to Heather. That sorta thing :/

Author:  Don, Aman [ 20 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Valtiel - what's next?

trai has cake wrote:
events in 4 transpired before events in 3


Some of the events referenced in SH4/SH2 happened before SH3, but SH4 takes place after SH3. I think this is the chronological order of events surrounding Valtiel... (anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)...

SH3/SH4 SPOILERS (kind of...)
1. Jimmy Stone sneaks Valtiel into little Walter's subconscious while he is at Wish House. (1970's)
2. Walter "kills" himself while in prison, releasing Valtiel from his mind. (early 90's)
3. Valtiel attempts to aid the birth of god by the methods of the Sect of the Holy Woman in SH3. (1997)
4. Valtiel attempts to aid the birth of god by the methods of the Sect of the Holy Mother in SH4. (2001)

After which...
SilentWren wrote:
He's probably still up in rafters waiting.

and watching......

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