Smiling Picture Person

Heather finds out why it's true that you shouldn't talk to strangers. Or look in mirrors, quite honestly.

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clips
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Re: Smiling Picture Person

Post by clips »

I never noticed the ear...where in the game is it?...i've played SH3 a gazillion times and i'm shocked that i have never seen that...
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Re: Smiling Picture Person

Post by peronmls »

clips wrote:I never noticed the ear...where in the game is it?...i've played SH3 a gazillion times and i'm shocked that i have never seen that...
First room where you wake up beside the bath tub in the alternate office building. Right before you leave the room.
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clips
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Re: Smiling Picture Person

Post by clips »

peronmls wrote:
clips wrote:I never noticed the ear...where in the game is it?...i've played SH3 a gazillion times and i'm shocked that i have never seen that...
First room where you wake up beside the bath tub in the alternate office building. Right before you leave the room.

Thanks...next time i fire this up, i'll be looking for this.... 8)
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Re: Smiling Picture Person

Post by nur_ein_tier »

Yeah, as Aerith said:
For example, in Silent Hill 3 there are pictures of ears and mouths on the walls of the hospital and Hilltop Center. Ito explained on his messageboard that he wanted to use these to express the Otherworld and its personality, but didn’t want to use eyes, because he didn’t use them in the Silent Hill series creature design. The ear is bloody because Alessa is angry; likewise, the red around the nurses’ mouths are to express a feeling of anger. The mouths appear to be smiling, but Ito says they really represent Alessa’s “shrieking insanity.”
Too lazy to find exact Ito quotes,but they are cited at the end of this article.

While it does look like Marilyn, it's also true that any woman with a similar mouth wearing red lipstick could replicate it.
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alone in the town
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Re: Smiling Picture Person

Post by alone in the town »

nur_ein_tier wrote:While it does look like Marilyn, it's also true that any woman with a similar mouth wearing red lipstick could replicate it.
The look could be replicated, but this isn't replication. I can visually confirm it is the exact same photo, though of course touched-up, from the shape of the mouth and the angle of the shot. The angles and dimensions aren't just similar, they are identical. It would not happen by accident.

Now, such a thing could be duplicated, but getting it exactly right would take about a million times as much effort as is necessary to create a visual artifact which is little more than a footnote. And, why bother duplicating it anyway? Why not just use a bit of Lisa's mouth?
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Chris Redfield
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Re: Smiling Picture Person

Post by Chris Redfield »

Holy Fucking Shitboluders, Batman... Props to the OP and Aerith Gainsborough. I always wondered what that damn mouth meant! Now I know. Can't believe I never noticed the "Bleeding Ear" though. Now I have the sudden urge to play SH3 again...
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Re: Smiling Picture Person

Post by Monster »

I feel like I knew what it meant without knowing what the artist intended it to mean. It's just such a simple, primal image, and like most of the monster designs the eyes are hidden which creates a strange, inhuman disconnect from what appears to be an expression of joy. Pure genius.
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Re: Smile Picture Person

Post by Uyrikeustek »

VenusDoom wrote:Actually it's this one from the SH1 soundtrack Image ^-^ But nice observation anyway!
No, it's not Lisa. It doesn't even look like her smile.
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Re: Smiling Picture Person

Post by k0n0k0 »

Wow, this just made my day. Good one!

I love that part in the game. I find it beautifully disturbing. Even did a project based on it for my art class.
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Re: Smiling Picture Person

Post by peronmls »

Sorry for the bump. OP here. I was wanting confirmation on my finding so I went ahead and tweeted to Masahiro Ito as he is very communicative to the SH community. Upon asking him within the hour my account was blocked by him from everything. I am not quite sure what happened. As a big fan of his art in general this shot me down pretty hard. I guess we can assume it is. =/ Here was my tweet.

https://imgur.com/a/jSexxl1
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Re: Smiling Picture Person

Post by The Adversary »

peronmls wrote: 25 Aug 2018 I guess we can assume it is
I went and made something. It's hard to argue against.
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Re: Smiling Picture Person

Post by NanayaShiki »

I mean... the shape of the smile is definitely similar but it's not a perfect 1:1. The lips are different, the teeth are different, the position is off slightly, and a bunch of other small details don't line up. I feel like it's a coincidence. It's possible this was used as a reference I suppose but if so it's been changed enough that it's hard to say one way or another.
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Re: Smiling Picture Person

Post by Vixx »

The Adversary wrote: 28 Jan 2022
peronmls wrote: 25 Aug 2018 I guess we can assume it is
I went and made something. It's hard to argue against.
That'll be why poor peronmls was blocked, then! :lol:

If I had to guess, I'd say those small tweaks were made to try and conceal the likeness. I think the team's routine use of using Hollywood ideals as a reference – Kindergarten cop school, Christina Aguliera's outfit, etc - suggest that they may well have used this image as a starting point. Super interesting stuff!
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Re: Smiling Picture Person

Post by The Adversary »

>I mean... the shape of the smile is definitely similar but it's not a perfect 1:1. <
It's 99% identical. . . .

Like, Midwich Elementary School was modeled after the school in Kindergarten Cop, but we don't say it's not because it isn't absolutely identical. I could have spent some 5 more minutes aligning it more perfectly but I'd already gotten enough weird looks at the bar.

Honestly, this is inarguable at this point. Even a cursory glance of the two pictures prove it's Marilyn's mouth.

Now, off to find the ears.
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Re: Smiling Picture Person

Post by NanayaShiki »

Image

(Old edit that wasn't as good for the sake of transparency: https://i.imgur.com/5XPpXOh.png)

I think looking at them side by side does make me question it a bit more.
At the very least it is FAR under 99% identical.

The silent hill face has thinner lips, the sides of the mouth are more pointed, the lines caused by the smile are different (look how you can see them going further down the face and around the mouse). I don't see the similarity between these two mouths at all to be honest. The lips in particular are just completely different.

Then you get to the teeth, where things get interesting. So, the entire bottom row of teeth is completely different. There's ZERO similarity between them. Notice the rises and falls of Marilyn's teeth there, the dents, the sharp ones. None of that is present in the Silent Hill face, it is a completely different row of teeth. The top row, though, is a bit different. So going from our perspective, to the left of the front two teeth is also entirely different. Not only are there only two teeth here while Marilyn has many more, but they're completely different in shape. However, the front two teeth themselves, as well as the two teeth to the right of them... they are pretty similar. I don't know if I'd call them identical, though. And then as you get further down, the teeth change again.

I would still say that like 85% of these mouths are different, but the similarity of a few of the teeth is interesting. It's definitely possible that the picture of Marilyn was used as a reference for parts of the face. But it's definitely not a direct 1:1, a lot of the Silent Hill face is very different. I personally think it's just a coincidence.
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Re: Smiling Picture Person

Post by The Adversary »

You can literally see her beauty mark in the image you posted.

That's also not a good image of it, especially when it's clearly been stretched from what's in the game. The image I superimposed over Marilyn was edited only to size, not disproportionately like this one.

But, sure, Ito—or whoever—probably tinkered with it slightly to make it not so obvious. But it's definitely Marilyn Monroe.

Image
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Re: Smiling Picture Person

Post by NanayaShiki »

The image I posted is literally the one from your video. I did blow it up to try and get a better comparison and the quality suffered, it's true. Very much a rush job. But none of the things I said are made inaccurate by this. You're saying "it's very obviously the same" but it's... not. The lips are different. The entire bottom row of teeth are different. Half the top row of teeth are different. The mouth shape is different. The rest of the face structure is different. The only thing I see that looks the same are a few of the teeth and even then I don't think it's exact. If Ito took her face and edited it, it's edited to the point of being almost entirely different. Also her beauty mark is not in the Silent Hill face, it's just covered in grime/blood/whatever. The part of her face where it'd be isn't even in the picture.

I don't like declaring things as fact when we can't actually prove it and there's more than enough differences between the two.

Edit: I've made a better image and put it in the post above, keeping the aspect ratio better in tact and not blowing it up as much. Original image is still linked in post as well.

Edit 2: And here's some points of interest I'd like to draw attention to:
Image

1. Flat teeth on Marilyn, sharp teeth on SH mouth. As well as an inconsistent number of teeth in general.
2. Completely different lip shape and size, like not even remotely the same.
3. Note how Marilyn's mouth curves down much sooner here, while the SH mouth extends more straight and into a completely different shape.
4. Entirely different bottom row of teeth. The only tooth that looks similar is the far right one, the rest are very much not the same teeth. (That's the majority of teeth being different now, mind you)
5. Marilyn's teeth are healthier and fuller here, while the SH mouth are sharper and more chipped. Again note the inconsistent number of teeth. There's an extra one in the SH mouth at the end.
6. Here is where it does look slightly similar, though to me it still looks kinda different. The teeth in the SH mouth seem thinner and less full. The SH tooth is also angled in a way that Marilyn's is not. I also think the front two teeth are less flat in the SH mouth and extend down a bit.

Note that I'm not saying it's definitely not based in some way on her. Just that it's not anywhere close to 99% and there's much room for doubt as well.
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Re: Smiling Picture Person

Post by Burning Man »

Point goes to NanayaShiki. I, too, see a resemblance to the Monroe photo but they're not the same one.

It didn't see anyone mention this: The smiling image has a variation with braces behind the smoky glass room.

This is the best I could find.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TvMXCveo5w&t=408s

Where NanayaShiki marked "6": the slant of the tooth may be an indicator that whoever is wearing that smile had braces to minimize a gap between that tooth and the front tooth. Did Marilyn Monroe ever wear braces? I think I read somewhere that fingerprints and teeth marks can be used to identify someone as they are unique.
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Re: Smiling Picture Person

Post by The Adversary »

Let's try this again.

Image

These are the same posters. However, one has clearly been edited and modified for the game. Maybe you think that's a very different thing in this context, in particular due to graphics, but these posters are the same, albeit not 100% identical. That's my point.

Yes, there are differences, but not enough (to me) to say it isn't Marilyn Monroe.

And, again, my argument about Kindergarten Cop and Midwich Elementary School stands. The developers have always used real-life builds and edited them for the games. Take the Chapel on the Lake in SILENT HILL 2, for example. That church is Iglesia de San Pedro, in Avila, Spain. But, you know, edited.

Same with Marilyn's mouth.
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Re: Smiling Picture Person

Post by Burning Man »

> The developers have always used real-life builds and edited them for the games.

The argument isn't that the smiling image is not based on a real-life build. Some of us are just not convinced that the source material is that of Marilyn Monroe. I can imagine the developers going through piles of fashion magazines to get the image they want, but the likelihood of that being Marilyn Monroe...?

The Stephen King poster and Kindergarten Cop references are for certain. They may be doctored, but they retain the characteristics of their source material.

In the game, there is an example of developers using a real-life build. If you observe the St. Nicholas painting, you may notice the skull and the book underneath share more than a passing resemblance to Caravaggio's "Saint Jerome Writing" c. 1605.
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