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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Can we trust the in-game descriptions of the cult's beliefs?
     
         
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Missing since: 30 Mar 2011
Notes left: 283
I raised this issue in a thread over in the SH1 forum, and I'd like some input. Now, the idea originally comes from a TwinPerfect video, so to deflect any potential knee-jerking, I'm not one of their fanboys. I just thought they made an interesting suggestion (which, of course, they presented as the only possible correct answer, in typical annoying TP fashion): what if the material Heather finds about the cult and its beliefs in SH3 is a fabricated, revisionist account made up by Vincent to hide the truth about what happened 17 years prior? His conversation with the unnamed church member implies that he has already convinced his followers that a bunch of heathens tried to kill God, and none of the pictures in the temple mention anything about the burning of Alessa, Incubus, or aglaophotis. It always struck me as odd how God is female in the cult literature found in SH3, but male according to Dahlia in SH1. So how much of the hierarchy of Xuchilbara and Lobsel Vith, the Lord of Snakes and Reeds, etc. do you think is actually what the cult has always believed, versus what a cynical money-grabbing priest invented to try and drum up support after what happened to Dahlia's sect? Can we ever really know for sure?


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RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: Can we trust the in-game descriptions of the cult's beli
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19397
Last seen at: #lfk
What's left of the Order in SILENT HILL 3 probably has no idea what really went on 17 years earlier, simply put because none of them were there. Also, Dahlia worked almost entirely on her own, save for M.K. and two other members of the church. She was a maverick, and undoubtedly had no reason to tell the others what she was specifically doing. The only person who has an idea is Claudia, and her descriptions come from visions. Personally, I believe the reason god goes from wearing white to red is Claudia's vision: when she "saw" god, it was after Harry tossed the aglaophotis on it, staining her white dress red.

Also note. Incubus is depicted in the chapel murals, as well as Valtiel and another female figure, along the upper parts of the hallways and in certain rooms.

The six paintings depicting god's birth and death are a parallel to the events of SILENT HILL, as well, reaffirming what we know happened. Similarly, it reflects what's going to happen with Heather, Vincent and Claudia.

And, finally: SILENT HILL: PAST LIFE subtly references the burning, and, as far as I'm concerned, offers a true origin story for the importance of immolation to what will become the Order.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Can we trust the in-game descriptions of the cult's beli
     
         
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Missing since: 30 Mar 2011
Notes left: 283
The cult may have been larger than just the characters we see in Silent Hill 1 at the time. There was an unknown figure by Alessa's sick bed in the vision sequence, and possibly several others throughout town involved in the PTV trade with some connection to the cult. And furthermore, if everybody in the cult was killed back then, there would have been nobody left to pick up the pieces and set the stage for Vincent and Claudia's revival. They both would have been too young at the time to take the initiative. Maybe Wish House got wind of the whole fiasco and got the reformation going. Either way, there is not much to indicate that Dahlia worshipped the Lord of Snakes and Reeds, or was familiar with the Halo of the Sun. Those seem to be post-Cheryl additions to their belief system. So I guess what I'm saying is that maybe there's no fact of the matter about who the Red God or the Yellow God is, because they were just made-up characters installed in the chapel paintings to give a new sense of intrigue and mysticism to a religion that was quickly losing ground in the area.

You're correct about the murals, although the areas in which they appear are "otherside" rooms if I'm not misremembering. I highly doubt they are actual murals painted by cult members on scaffolding; more likely they are projections from the town's recent past, like the seals of Metatron in the Lakeview Hotel.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Can we trust the in-game descriptions of the cult's beli
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Aug 2012
Notes left: 186
KingCrimson wrote:
The cult may have been larger than just the characters we see in Silent Hill 1 at the time. There was an unknown figure by Alessa's sick bed in the vision sequence, and possibly several others throughout town involved in the PTV trade with some connection to the cult.

Quite possibly.

KingCrimson wrote:
And furthermore, if everybody in the cult was killed back then, there would have been nobody left to pick up the pieces and set the stage for Vincent and Claudia's revival.

I believe that Dhalia's sect (whatever it was) was greatly weakened over time. I mean, after SH1's event and Walter's first and second killing spree (witch killed Jimmy Stone, George Rosten and Toby Archbolt), most of the cult's leaders where dead, and the rest of the cult was left unmotivated. Then Vincent and "the power of money" showed up, (re)built the church and revived people's faith.

KingCrimson wrote:
Those seem to be post-Cheryl additions to their belief system. So I guess what I'm saying is that maybe there's no fact of the matter about who the Red God or the Yellow God is, because they were just made-up characters installed in the chapel paintings to give a new sense of intrigue and mysticism to a religion that was quickly losing ground in the area.

I used to believe that too. But there's something off: Heather seems to remember the Half of The Sun as Alessa, so this thing was around when Alessa was a kid. I thinks Dahlia had a different vision about god. I think that, at her time, the cult was more mystic and less formal (more like a "god is a horned goat-faced winged woman" club or something), when Vincent built the catholic-like church it became more organized, like a real institution.

KingCrimson wrote:
You're correct about the murals, although the areas in which they appear are "otherside" rooms if I'm not misremembering. I highly doubt they are actual murals painted by cult members on scaffolding; more likely they are projections from the town's recent past, like the seals of Metatron in the Lakeview Hotel.

I think the otherworld has messed up the church a lot, but I really looks like a regular catholic church, with some parts untouched. Like the Sunday school class room, or Claudia's room, or the confessional.

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"Good people should love their enemies" - Seu Madruga


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Can we trust the in-game descriptions of the cult's beli

Missing since: 02 Jan 2014
Notes left: 2
Last seen at: michigan
Beliefs never stay original. I mean it is a "cult" and from the game its related to christianity in a way. The book you can read when you talk to vincent again says they take stuff from there original christianity etc.... but they perverted it with a new message. Im guessing there "god" was revealed to the settlers when they first came to the area of silent hill. New leaders rush in new rules. Look at religion in real life. So it is of course not the true "orders" religion. The book relating it to christianity is when vincent says he believes in the same god but heather says more like "devil". In part one the cult didnt get the job done so they kind of tried to change it i suppose. But again they failed lol.


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