Search FAQ

Login | Register


All times are UTC [ DST ]


It is currently 26 Apr 2017




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 
Author Message

Just Passing Through
 Post subject: If Heather had agreed to birth God?

Missing since: 04 Mar 2014
Notes left: 8
Hi,
I apologise if this has already been asked before, but can someone please tell me what would have happened if Heather upon discovering her 'destiny' from Claudia, what would have happened if she had agreed to birth the god? Would she have experienced a normal pregnancy and birth? Would she have received 'special treatment' from The Order? I'm simply curious, please be kind. It is very nice to meet you all too! :)


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: If Heather had agreed to birth God?
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11370
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
The God would have been born by destroying Heather, and then it would have proceeded to kill all of mankind.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: If Heather had agreed to birth God?
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
Notes left: 7878
Last seen at: Nowhere
^ Not only that but Heather wouldn't have any sort of special treatment.
The entire foundation of the Order (it's structure, it's rites) are all based through punishment and suffering. Sacrifice.

If not even the real Mother of God (Alessa) went through an easy route, what you'd expect from a surrogate one?

And welcome to the forums. That's a nice way to get yourself known. By asking an interesting question.

_________________
Image


Top
   
 

Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: If Heather had agreed to birth God?

Missing since: 20 Jun 2010
Notes left: 1623
xxSiobahnxx wrote:
Hi,
I apologise if this has already been asked before, but can someone please tell me what would have happened if Heather upon discovering her 'destiny' from Claudia, what would have happened if she had agreed to birth the god?

Heather never would have agreed to birth God. After Harry was murdered Heather was pretty determined to fuck up Claudia's plans, and there was no way Claudia was going to let Harry live. He screwed things up for The Order in SH1 and took away and hid the Mother of God. On top of that, Heather has to suffer, so things would have worked out poorly for Harry regardless, which brings me back to my previous point about Heather being determined to fuck up Claudia's plans. If, by some miracle Harry wasn't killed, then I still doubt Heather would agree anyway. A part of her knows that God's birth is a bad idea, Harry would have stopped her, and plus Heather just seems really headstrong and wouldn't easily be fooled or swayed by a random stranger.

xxSiobahnxx wrote:
Would she have experienced a normal pregnancy and birth?

Nope and nope. Nothing about God's birth is normal, from the way it was conceived to how it's born. It seems to destroy or consume the mother at the moment of it's birth as evident by what's left of Claudia at the end of SH3.

xxSiobahnxx wrote:
Would she have received 'special treatment' from The Order?

If by special treatment you mean having her father murdered and other forms of pain and suffering forced on her, then yes, she would've received 'special treatment'. The Order believes that God needs to be nourished on the mother's pain and suffering, as this apparently helps give it empathy, rather than making a homicidal nut-bag with supernatural powers.

xxSiobahnxx wrote:
I'm simply curious, please be kind. It is very nice to meet you all too! :)

Hey, being curious about the series is why this forum was made in the first place. :) Also nice to meet you too.


Top
   
 

Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: If Heather had agreed to birth God?

Missing since: 04 Mar 2014
Notes left: 8
Thank you all for your kind replies. As I understand it, it would appear that I have confused the true intentions of The Order and I have humanised God, most likely due to the St. Alessa painting that is displayed in the church in SH3, depicting the Holy Mother holding a newborn God. If the 'pregnancy' of God, were to have continued until birth, would Heather have any physical signs of pregnancy? Or is this all just a figment of imagination in the minds of the followers of The Order? Also, could someone please explain the meaning behind Claudia's quote to Heather "Remember me, and your true self as well, also that which you must become. The one who will lead us to Paradise with blood stained hands..." If God does indeed destroy or consume the Holy Mother, what does the 'blood stained hands' part of the quote actually mean? This is one of the reasons why I asked about God's birth, I somehow linked 'blood stained hands' with a 'normal' birth.

Thanks! :)


Top
   
 

Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: If Heather had agreed to birth God?

Missing since: 20 Jun 2010
Notes left: 1623
xxSiobahnxx wrote:
If the 'pregnancy' of God, were to have continued until birth, would Heather have any physical signs of pregnancy?

No. Like I said, it's not a normal birth or pregnancy. Heather was "pregnant" with God from the moment of her creation (Heather herself wasn't "born" like a normal person but created by the dying God at the end of SH1). Even as an infant she had the God within her. At that age, there's no way a fetus would be able to exist in her womb. God seems to be within the very being of the mother, rather than as a fetus in the womb.
Besides, we see the lead up to God being born in the premature bad ending of SH3 when you have a choice to kill Claudia or take the red tablet in Heather's pendant (can't remember the correct spelling of what it is). It's been a while since I've played the game, and I can't seem to find a video for it, but from memory Heather's skin changes colour and she doubles over in pain. The screen then fades to black which is presumably when God is born. Right up until the screen fades to black (or game over or whatever) Heather doesn't look pregnant. It's just easier to say "pregnant" than it is to say something like "carrying God within her" or something.

xxSiobahnxx wrote:
Or is this all just a figment of imagination in the minds of the followers of The Order?

More like people's thoughts and beliefs made real. For example, God's appearance in SH3 was based on what Claudia thought God would look like because in the end she's the one who "birthed" it. If it had been Heather, it would have looked different, instead looking like whatever she thought it would look like.

xxSiobahnxx wrote:
Also, could someone please explain the meaning behind Claudia's quote to Heather "Remember me, and your true self as well, also that which you must become. The one who will lead us to Paradise with blood stained hands..."

My personal interpretation:
"Remember me and your true self as well" = remember that she's Alessa and was once friends with Claudia, remember that they both suffered, that they both believe in God and paradise.
"also that which you must become" and "The one who will lead us to Paradise" = remember that she must become the mother of God
"with blood stained hands" = God is nurtured on pain and suffering, and the last requirement to birth God is revenge against Claudia for having Harry killed. "Blood stained hands" allude to revenge and murder (blood on ones hands, for example).
Basically I think she's saying "remember that you're Alessa, and we both want God to be born to end everyone's suffering and bring everyone to Paradise, a paradise that you have to make through pain and suffering and by spilling blood." Of course, what Claudia doesn't realize is that Alessa doesn't actually want God to be born.

xxSiobahnxx wrote:
If God does indeed destroy or consume the Holy Mother, what does the 'blood stained hands' part of the quote actually mean? This is one of the reasons why I asked about God's birth, I somehow linked 'blood stained hands' with a 'normal' birth.

Thanks! :)

Claudia's not being literal, but speaking figuratively.


Top
   
 

Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: If Heather had agreed to birth God?

Missing since: 04 Mar 2014
Notes left: 8
Soulless-Shadow wrote:
xxSiobahnxx wrote:
If the 'pregnancy' of God, were to have continued until birth, would Heather have any physical signs of pregnancy?

No. Like I said, it's not a normal birth or pregnancy. Heather was "pregnant" with God from the moment of her creation (Heather herself wasn't "born" like a normal person but created by the dying God at the end of SH1). Even as an infant she had the God within her. At that age, there's no way a fetus would be able to exist in her womb. God seems to be within the very being of the mother, rather than as a fetus in the womb.
Besides, we see the lead up to God being born in the premature bad ending of SH3 when you have a choice to kill Claudia or take the red tablet in Heather's pendant (can't remember the correct spelling of what it is). It's been a while since I've played the game, and I can't seem to find a video for it, but from memory Heather's skin changes colour and she doubles over in pain. The screen then fades to black which is presumably when God is born. Right up until the screen fades to black (or game over or whatever) Heather doesn't look pregnant. It's just easier to say "pregnant" than it is to say something like "carrying God within her" or something.

xxSiobahnxx wrote:
Or is this all just a figment of imagination in the minds of the followers of The Order?

More like people's thoughts and beliefs made real. For example, God's appearance in SH3 was based on what Claudia thought God would look like because in the end she's the one who "birthed" it. If it had been Heather, it would have looked different, instead looking like whatever she thought it would look like.

xxSiobahnxx wrote:
Also, could someone please explain the meaning behind Claudia's quote to Heather "Remember me, and your true self as well, also that which you must become. The one who will lead us to Paradise with blood stained hands..."

My personal interpretation:
"Remember me and your true self as well" = remember that she's Alessa and was once friends with Claudia, remember that they both suffered, that they both believe in God and paradise.
"also that which you must become" and "The one who will lead us to Paradise" = remember that she must become the mother of God
"with blood stained hands" = God is nurtured on pain and suffering, and the last requirement to birth God is revenge against Claudia for having Harry killed. "Blood stained hands" allude to revenge and murder (blood on ones hands, for example).
Basically I think she's saying "remember that you're Alessa, and we both want God to be born to end everyone's suffering and bring everyone to Paradise, a paradise that you have to make through pain and suffering and by spilling blood." Of course, what Claudia doesn't realize is that Alessa doesn't actually want God to be born.

xxSiobahnxx wrote:
If God does indeed destroy or consume the Holy Mother, what does the 'blood stained hands' part of the quote actually mean? This is one of the reasons why I asked about God's birth, I somehow linked 'blood stained hands' with a 'normal' birth.

Thanks! :)

Claudia's not being literal, but speaking figuratively.


Thank you all for your answers. If Heather were to have birthed God, how would this be done exactly?


Top
   
 

Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: If Heather had agreed to birth God?
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 08 Aug 2012
Notes left: 186
Quote:
Thank you all for your answers. If Heather were to have birthed God, how would this be done exactly?


I don't think anyone is sure about that. I mean, we can see it in the kill-Claudia-and-birth-God "ending". All that happens is we see in God's point of view and Claudia screams happily: "Oh God! Bring us salvation!". So, no-one is sure of what happens. Maybe it just up to Claudia's imagination, since God is now her manifestation.

_________________
"Good people should love their enemies" - Seu Madruga


Top
   
 

Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: If Heather had agreed to birth God?

Missing since: 20 Jun 2010
Notes left: 1623
xxSiobahnxx wrote:
Thank you all for your answers. If Heather were to have birthed God, how would this be done exactly?

We've already seen God being born in SH1 just before the last boss fight. The part in question starts around 5:10. There's a bright light, and Alessa's real body (the person in the wheelchair) and her astral projection (the girl in blue) cease to exist and are replaced with the Woman in White. Heather birthing God would probably be very similar.


Top
   
 

Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: If Heather had agreed to birth God?
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 Oct 2010
Notes left: 1446
Last seen at: Chicago
Soulless-Shadow wrote:
We've already seen God being born in SH1 just before the last boss fight. The part in question starts around 5:10. There's a bright light, and Alessa's real body (the person in the wheelchair) and her astral projection (the girl in blue) cease to exist and are replaced with the Woman in White. Heather birthing God would probably be very similar.


Yeah, this is important to point out. Heather would likely have become the incubator, the way Alessa did in SH1. I think I read somewhere (can't remember where) that the way the Incubator looked in SH1 (a glowing lady in white) is Alessa's idea of what god looks like, that's why it takes this form. Once aglaophotis is tossed on the Incubator, it separates from Alessa and takes on a different form, the Incubus, which I think is based on what the cultists believe it should look like.

The form god takes in SH3 seems to be based on what Claudia thinks it should look like, although in the case of SH3 it's "birth" is kind of screwed up and it's hard to tell if it's following the same rules. Claudia's clothes are left behind, so presumably Claudia has turned into that thing that you fight as the final boss.

If Heather had "birthed" the god herself, I think it would have taken on the form of whatever Heather concieves "god" to be. Perhaps different from the way the Incubator looks in SH1.

_________________
www.flipsidecomics.com


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: If Heather had agreed to birth God?
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11370
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
"Wha...Harry Mason?"

"Honestly, Claudia, I'm just as surprised as you."

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Top
   
 

Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: If Heather had agreed to birth God?
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 08 Aug 2012
Notes left: 186
Tillerman wrote:
If Heather had "birthed" the god herself, I think it would have taken on the form of whatever Heather concieves "god" to be. Perhaps different from the way the Incubator looks in SH1.


This opens the door to a lot of cool, but useless speculation, donnit?

I mean, if Heather actually wanted to birth God, how would her image of God be? I can imagine at least two scenarios:

- Heather thinks God is a saviour, and she will bring paradise to earth. Maybe she imagines it as the lady in white (or maybe in red, since it's what we see in the chapel).

- Heather thinks God will burn the world, like Leonard believed. Then, maybe, she'd see like the demon Incubus from the first game.I

_________________
"Good people should love their enemies" - Seu Madruga


Top
   
 

My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: If Heather had agreed to birth God?
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 22 Sep 2014
Notes left: 348
Last seen at: Kent (England)
Why would you ever agree to anything Claudia says or wants? She is most definitely unhinged.

But the God is inside Heather right from the start it seems to me.

At the part where you swallow the thing inside your necklace (I forget what It's called:

[Reveal] Spoiler:
If instead of doing this you shoot Claudia and kill her, you have a game over but it shows you Heather birthing the God (which must have already been inside her), at least I think that's how you do it (I can't remember what happens exactly as it's been ages since I played 3).

But I don't think Heather would have any influence over what the God turns out like. But I could just as easily be wrong.

Did anyone else find the last boss of SH3 a little underwhelming and easy to beat??


Top
   
 

Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: If Heather had agreed to birth God?
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 Oct 2010
Notes left: 1446
Last seen at: Chicago
Its Gone Now wrote:
But I don't think Heather would have any influence over what the God turns out like. But I could just as easily be wrong.

Did anyone else find the last boss of SH3 a little underwhelming and easy to beat??


No... I think most people find it to be the most intimidating, and hardest final boss in the series. Especially on the higher difficulty levels.

Keep in mind that most things in Silent Hill are born from the town manifesting people's thoughts into reality. The god itself isn't a real god, it's just another manifestation based on people's beliefs. That's why it can be killed. (and also because videogame, but in this case there's a real reason.)

_________________
www.flipsidecomics.com


Top
   
 

My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: If Heather had agreed to birth God?
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 22 Sep 2014
Notes left: 348
Last seen at: Kent (England)
Oh I see....

I was under the impression that the God was always alive and the birth was just a way to make it corporal, that killing the physical manifestation would not kill it completely.

Is the manifestation thing canon or just theorized? As I haven't read a lot on this particular subject recently and I'm a bit fuzzy on what is canon and what is not. (I need to play 1 & 3 again really).

I guess I found the boss easy because it doesn't move around a lot.

Walter at the end of the Room was my "Walterloo" took me a while the first time and got really aggravating. Not bad once you've got the hang of it though.

And where does the word canon come from? I don't believe I've ever heard it before I joined this forum, Is it mainly an American term?? In England we usually say "Lore" but there may be a slight difference in the definitions.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: If Heather had agreed to birth God?
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11370
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
The manifestation thing is canon. As for where the word comes from, it's a term deriving from it's usage in the term "Biblical canon", where the Bible was fully compiled out of an anthology of books considered to be divinely inspired and thus "canonical".

You can thus expand the analogy to consider the official quotes of game developers to be "Word of God."

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Top
   
 

Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: If Heather had agreed to birth God?
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 Oct 2010
Notes left: 1446
Last seen at: Chicago
Its Gone Now wrote:
Is the manifestation thing canon or just theorized? As I haven't read a lot on this particular subject recently and I'm a bit fuzzy on what is canon and what is not. (I need to play 1 & 3 again really).


Yeah, it's well established. In SH1, the monsters are shown to be manifestations from Alessa's psyche (as shown by the drawing from her room.) In SH2, all the manifestations are born from James' guilt. Including Maria. Angela and Eddie are shown to have their own manifestations, like Angela's fiery staircase. There are similar things in SH3 and 4. Basically whenever something is weird, it's being manifested by a person, with the town of Silent Hill as a catalyst.

If I recall correctly, there is also a page in the guidebook that talks specifically about how god is manifested according to people's desires... or something like that.

Its Gone Now wrote:
I guess I found the boss easy because it doesn't move around a lot.


It's fire is pretty hard to dodge on hard difficulty. It gets progressively faster until it goes into crazy mode. I think it's the best designed boss in the series, actually.

Its Gone Now wrote:
And where does the word canon come from? I don't believe I've ever heard it before I joined this forum, Is it mainly an American term?? In England we usually say "Lore" but there may be a slight difference in the definitions.


Lore has caught on here too, but it's mainly used to mean backstory.

In fiction, canon refers to material that is officially part of the a story's universe. Generally it's used to distinguish official works from fan-fiction, but sometimes what is "officially true" can be unclear, or can change. I heard that Star Wars had a big upheaval recently with a lot of the side material having been officially de-canonized. In regards to games with multiple endings, canon refers to which one is the official ending. Sometimes this is clearly stated and sometimes not.

_________________
www.flipsidecomics.com


Top
   
 

My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: If Heather had agreed to birth God?
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 22 Sep 2014
Notes left: 348
Last seen at: Kent (England)
Thanks to Tillerman and AuraTwilight for clearing that up.

I knew what it meant just wasn't sure where it came from.


Top
   
 

Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: If Heather had agreed to birth God?
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 24 Oct 2014
Notes left: 8
Last seen at: Memphis, TN
AuraTwilight wrote:
The God would have been born by destroying Heather, and then it would have proceeded to kill all of mankind.


Honestly, I doubt this would happen. At least from what I get out of everything we know about the Order, outside of Silent Hill they're kind of just totally full of it. Their beliefs only have power because of how close the town is to the Otherside. And like going with that, the implications of the summoning of the God aren't really apocalyptic, the characters just believe that they are. The God wouldn't really have any power in the outside world, nor would it really even be able to exist.

_________________
<3<3<3<3<3<3 <3


Top
   
 

My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: If Heather had agreed to birth God?
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 18 Feb 2008
Notes left: 310
Last seen at: A physiatric ward
The god does have power in the real world, it's what drags heather into the otherworld in the first place. If it was ever to be born, it would just drag the entire population of the planet into the otherworld. It would then proceed to mess with them.

_________________
Who's the man? Me!!


Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: