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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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KiramidHead wrote:
Isn't Manichaeism a branch of gnosticism, which is in effect, just a different form of Christianity?


In the same way that Islam and Christianity are a different form of Judaism.

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I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 02 May 2006
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Well... nobody's arguing that the original script specified they weren't Christian... it's just peculiar that for people who insist they're better than Christians, Avery sure made them out to seem so much like Christians at their worst.

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Subway Guard
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Missing since: 12 May 2008
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Are you suggesting that the only people who have ever believed in witches and "cleansing" by fire are Christians? Are you also suggesting that you know more about what the people who made the film were thinking than they did? They're not Christians, no matter how you look at it. They were never meant to be.


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Historical Society Historian
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Who the hell said they're "better" than Christians?

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Subway Guard
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He's talking about Christabella's quote.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 02 May 2006
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JRamirez35 wrote:
Are you suggesting that the only people who have ever believed in witches and "cleansing" by fire are Christians? Are you also suggesting that you know more about what the people who made the film were thinking than they did? They're not Christians, no matter how you look at it. They were never meant to be.


Mmmyyeah... as far as I know, witch trials and witch hunts were pretty much monopolized by Christians. Greeks had sorceresses and oracles, Romans had their Sybils, even Muslims had their versions of witches and sorcerers as evidenced in the Thousand and One Nights. Heck, even New World Indians had their shamans. Note though how said examples might have included evil practitioners of magic (or at least even charlatans plying the craft) but none of them have come under severe prosecution from the society or culture that spawned their respective types... feared, maybe, but burned at the stake? I don't remember any such cases off the top of my head.

Even Judaism, which [supposedly] actively denounces the practice of witchcraft and magic due to the Leviticus passage which proclaims "Thou shall not suffer a witch to live" is relatively lax in the enforcement of this admonition, seeing as KINGS consulted witches to raise up spirits of dead prophets. Fortunetellers have been cited in both Old and New Testament to have thriving businesses at their times, in the very midst of Israel.

So... no, I am not "suggesting that the only people who have ever believed in witches" are Christians... but I AM pointing out that Christians are the most fervent believers of witch-burnings. Seeing as how stake-burnings are more utilized in other belief systems as

1)Entertainment for the masses, as was in the time of the Roman Empire, and
2)Sacrifices

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Subway Guard
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Phantom Allure wrote:

Mmmyyeah... as far as I know, witch trials and witch hunts were pretty much monopolized by Christians. Greeks had sorceresses and oracles, Romans had their Sybils, even Muslims had their versions of witches and sorcerers as evidenced in the Thousand and One Nights. Heck, even New World Indians had their shamans. Note though how said examples might have included evil practitioners of magic (or at least even charlatans plying the craft) but none of them have come under severe prosecution from the society or culture that spawned their respective types... feared, maybe, but burned at the stake? I don't remember any such cases off the top of my head.

People of every religion have been persecuted as witches all through history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-hunt It's flat-out ignorance to claim otherwise.


Quote:
So... no, I am not "suggesting that the only people who have ever believed in witches" are Christians... but I AM pointing out that Christians are the most fervent believers of witch-burnings. Seeing as how stake-burnings are more utilized in other belief systems as

1)Entertainment for the masses, as was in the time of the Roman Empire, and
2)Sacrifices

Ok, let's say Brad Pitt is the most recognized movie star in the world. In that case, should I assume that every lead male role in every movie is Brad Pitt?
Either way, you're still wrong about your initial argument. The cultists aren't Christian, nor were they ever intended to look like them, since it's a stated fact that they went out of their way to make them NOT look like Christians.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 02 May 2006
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^I still never argued that the cultists were Christian as I already accepted the DVD commentary stating that they specified the cultists were not Christian but Manichaeists. How on earth could you have missed that? You're now going into an extremely long tangent over your misinterpretation of my statement in which I find it peculiar that for non-Christians, they sure behaved like ones having a bad day

And BTW, your link with the witch hunts is:
a) conspicuously abridged and rather vague on the Pre-Christian history of witch hunts, and
b) just about proved that burning at the stake is practically copyrighted by Christians as a staple for people sentenced as witches
c) I don't even know what to make of the Brad Pitt analogy. :|

I'm still not disputing your earlier assertion, btw. The DVD commentary is irrefutable proof. On the sucject of witch-burning, on the other hand...

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Subway Guard
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Phantom Allure wrote:
^I still never argued that the cultists were Christian as I already accepted the DVD commentary stating that they specified the cultists were not Christian but Manichaeists.

You might wanna read your own posts then. In your first post on this subject, you claimed that I was wrong because they were reading from the Old Testament. In the second, you stated that you felt they were an offshoot of Puritans, in other words, Christians.
Quote:
How on earth could you have missed that? You're now going into an extremely long tangent over your misinterpretation of my statement in which I find it peculiar that for non-Christians, they sure behaved like ones having a bad day

Again, it is flat-out ignorance that you would believe that only Christians have ever persecuted those believed to be witches.

Quote:
And BTW, your link with the witch hunts is:
a) conspicuously abridged and rather vague on the Pre-Christian history of witch hunts, and
b) just about proved that burning at the stake is practically copyrighted by Christians as a staple for people sentenced as witches

So these people are Christian? http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=94882459
The Hindus have engaged in massive witch-burnings http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/594-579.aspx Their witchhunts lasted longer than any Christian spates.
None of the 73 (at least) people burned as witches in 1994 in South Africa were persecuted by Christians http://www.nytimes.com/1994/09/18/world ... rning.html
Quote:
c) I don't even know what to make of the Brad Pitt analogy. :|

The analogy is correct.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 25 Jun 2008
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The cultist's weren't Christian. Their beliefs may have been adapted from Christian beliefs but they themselves were not Christian.

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"We are the Warriors at the End of Time. We are the lost, the last, the unkind. We are the Warriors on the Edge of Time and we're tired, we're tired... We're tired of making love..."


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Gravedigger
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Urgh, start a thread on the beliefs of the movie cult, but this thread is meant for new news on a new Silent Hill movie

PS i'm sorry that i had to complain, but its just getting big enough to have its own topic :?

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Historical Society Historian
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He's right, move on.

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Historical Society Historian
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The witchunts in fact had relatively little to do with Christianity as a whole, but rather with peasant superstition. Jacobus Sprenger wrote the Malleus Maleficarum as a textbook to find witches, playing off the fears of the common people. Church authorities, both Protestant and Catholic, denounced Sprenger's work.

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Screenplay Archaeology Podcast - CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON (1992) EPISODE IS UP!


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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We've moved on, Kira.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
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Whatever you say, L. :lol:

I just wanted to add that bit, so I've moved on as well.

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