Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

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teosoleil
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Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

Post by teosoleil »

Forgive me for my little understanding of the first film, but I have a few questions to ask...

Why is Dark Alessa in this film? It is to my understanding that Dark Alessa and Sharon merged in the first movie, and that Rose leaves with the new Heather. Why is it that there is a Dark Alessa in this film if, theoretically, she was already become one with Heather?

Is it possible that this new Dark Alessa is a new "demon", the one Dahlia (maybe Claudia, judging by the editing of the trailer) refers to? If so, who is this new demon that Heather is apparently "chosen" to destroy?

I'm guessing that there's just going to be a whole lot of new mythology in in the film that needs to be known to answer these questions...but what do you think?
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Re: Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

Post by JKristine35 »

Bassett stated on his blog that Gans's interpretation of Dark Alessa as Alessa's dark side is the correct one, but he also said the ambiguity of Alessa's story gave him room to "play around". At first I thought the second remark meant he wasn't being entirely truthful in his first answer, but now I think it had a different meaning. I think he's going to play on the misinterpretation so many people had of Dark Alessa in the first film, which would allow him to be one of the only writers in history to make a sequel's twist something that was a major plot point in the first film, based entirely on the fact that almost no one understood the original. Claudia will lie to Heather (a la Dahlia's Samael comment in SH1), telling her Dark Alessa is a demon. There's 3 reasons I can think of for why she would do this: A) something traumatic happened to Sharon/Alessa that caused her to become disgusted with what she had become, leading her to split off her dark side anew and leave it in the alternate reality while her other side flees back to the real world. The dark side would then fiercely protect her world, preventing the Order from using it for their own purposes, B) the same thing as A, except it's an imprint of Alessa's rage left on the town (think Memory of Alessa), rather than an actual doppelganger of her, or C) Claudia needs Heather's dark side to be defeated so she can use her in some ritual. Either way, Claudia lies to Heather, and so Heather tries to kill Dark Alessa. She meets her on the carousel (as seen in the trailer), but ends up discovering that Dark Alessa is just Alessa's dark side, not some demon or devil. With this discovery, Dark Alessa morphs into a teenaged version of Heather (like in the set photos), and the two hug and come to terms. Heather then realizes that Claudia was using her, and the film climaxes at their confrontation.
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Re: Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

Post by SilentOne »

Based upon what's been seen at the end of the Silent Hill movie, and the fact that Sharon is now in the real world, I believe that the "dark Alessa" we see in the trailers is, in fact, Alessa.
But, I have good reason to speculate this. And that's because Bassett definitely is true that the whole Alessa backstory is so open-ended, that there are many possibilities. However, my personal take (or speculation) goes as follows (I'm gonna spoiler-tag the following, just in case):

At the end of the first Silent Hill movie, Alessa does not become one with Sharon.
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
But, rather, she ejected Sharon out of the foggy world (where she would be found by Christopher or the authorities) and Alessa took Sharon's place.
It's become apparent in the trailer that Claudia's Order exists within the foggy and real dimensions of the world- they may even have the ability to traverse between the worlds. So, within the foggy world, the Order tracks down Alessa to use her for their ritual (whatever it may be), but cannot complete it because she is still broken into two. Alessa, in a panic, calls out to Sharon once more to put an end to The Order. Meanwhile, the sect that exists in the real world, kidnaps Christopher and leads Sharon to Silent Hill.
Now, obviously, Sharon has no past recollection of what happened in Silent Hill. But all is later revealed to her- and the confrontation with the Memory of Alessa is her actually fusing and becoming a single being.
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Re: Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

Post by jdnation »

We don't know yet and I'm sure we'll find out in the film. As of now we can only have interpretations.

I have my own theory:
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
Chris continued searching for his wife,and daughter. He gets in touch with the Order, with their help travels back to Silent Hill/the Otherworld/foggy world and manages to rescue Sharon, but not his wife. And in doing so manages to separate 'Dark Alessa' from Sharon, perhaps similar to the events of the first game. He escapes with Sharon, who suffers from amnesia, and then discovers the Order helped him only to get their hands on Sharon (rather, Alessa) or some such plot. He goes into hiding and they rename themselves Harry and Heather Mason. The Dark Alessa we see in the trailer, is likely what remains as 'the Memory of Alessa.' Notice that the girls' face is a mask. So it's not the same actress. Ideally it is symbolically a remnant of the Dark Alessa that Chris/Harry might've destroyed with the aid of the Order, to remove an obstacle preventing them from bringing about the birth of their god.
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Re: Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

Post by JKristine35 »

The theory that Heather is a new incarnation of Sharon makes no sense at all. For starters, Sharon was Alessa's good side, so why would an incarnation containing only the dark side smile lovingly up at Rose? Why would she hold her hand and stay close to her? For that matter, why would she even want Rose at all? The dark side can't feel love, so there's no reason for her to want anything at all to do with Rose. There is not one single iota of evidence that Alessa created a copy of Sharon and moved her out of the fog world while taking over her previous body, nor does that make any sense. The body of the little girl with Rose is obviously that of Sharon, and it would be ridiculously convulated to say that an exact copy was just plopped into the real world for no reason whatsoever. There is no explanation for why Alessa would want to remain split once her revenge is complete, or why she would send a copy of Sharon into the real world. It would be a retcon of the first film's ending if Bassett were to do this. It's possible that after the first film's events she became split again, but the girl at the end of the first movie is definitely one complete incarnation of Sharon, Alessa, and Dark Alessa. Her relationship with Rose is basically throwing that in the viewers' faces.
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Re: Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

Post by SilentOne »

JKristine35 wrote:The theory that Heather is a new incarnation of Sharon makes no sense at all. For starters, Sharon was Alessa's good side, so why would an incarnation containing only the dark side smile lovingly up at Rose? Why would she hold her hand and stay close to her? For that matter, why would she even want Rose at all? The dark side can't feel love, so there's no reason for her to want anything at all to do with Rose. There is not one single iota of evidence that Alessa created a copy of Sharon and moved her out of the fog world while taking over her previous body, nor does that make any sense. The body of the little girl with Rose is obviously that of Sharon, and it would be ridiculously convulated to say that an exact copy was just plopped into the real world for no reason whatsoever. There is no explanation for why Alessa would want to remain split once her revenge is complete, or why she would send a copy of Sharon into the real world. It would be a retcon of the first film's ending if Bassett were to do this. It's possible that after the first film's events she became split again, but the girl at the end of the first movie is definitely one complete incarnation of Sharon, Alessa, and Dark Alessa. Her relationship with Rose is basically throwing that in the viewers' faces.
I didn't consider the above at all, actually. Haha. :) Nice rebuttal.
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Re: Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

Post by chounokoe »

JKristine35 wrote:The theory that Heather is a new incarnation of Sharon makes no sense at all.
While I agree with you that, if Gans' claim is correct that Dark Alessa is simply all the hate, spite and madness of Alessa, it does not seem to make sense for her to keep Rose at her side, this does create continuity issues with the premise we know so far.
Everybody so far can only come up with the solution that Alessa somehow willingly left the otherworld she was in with Rose at the end of the movie and while this is not bound to cause problems it raises one question, why doesn't Sharon/Heather remember? Had she been completely reborn like in the game canon there wouldn't be an issue, but forgetting something this big if you actually were an all-powerful being raises some questions. It has only been 6 years so what would make Alessa forget that she is Alessa?

The only thing I can imagine so far is two options:
1) Something forcefully drove Alessa from the Otherworld she created for herself an Rose and made her forget everything about her life as Alessa in the process. The problem here is, what would that be and how is it connected to the plot if everything connects to SH3 where people are working to get Heather to Silent Hill.
2) The girl at the end of the first movie was Dark Alessa after all and she punished Rose for endangering her daughter, almost making Sharon die in the process. This sounds far fetched and could only be explained by reasoning that she was keeping Dahlia trapped as well, because she endangered her daughter no matter how big her love was. So you could say Alessa is simply generally not trusting women, which is why she returned Sharon to her father.

I do believe that these are problems you can write around, but so far I have problems to imagine a scenario that is more than that.
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Re: Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

Post by JKristine35 »

Sharon/Alessa likely pulled a James Sunderland and willingly repressed her memory. If something was so traumatic as to drive her from the one place she feels safe, it stands to reason that the same trauma could make her want to forget the evils of her previous life.
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Re: Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

Post by chounokoe »

JKristine35 wrote:Sharon/Alessa likely pulled a James Sunderland and willingly repressed her memory.
While that would be one of those ways to write around it, I'd find it very contrived.
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER: Silent Hill 2
James had most likely just killed his wife and was still in shock about it. Then the powers of the town conjure up the letter his brain fabricated within his very hands...so it was easy for him to go with that solution.
We are to believe that for 6 years these repressed memories stayed repressed, yet her father was perfectly aware of an apparent danger that forced them to relocate several times in these 6 years, even though he did not witness any of the events in Silent Hill.

My point is, so far I have problems getting into the plot because I run into these tiny problems. Of course somebody who isn't familiar with the games plot wouldn't even run into these and I have high hopes that the writer did get around those issues. But still I can't help but point them out...only all the better if it turns out the worries were unfounded.
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Re: Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

Post by teosoleil »

chounokoe wrote:
JKristine35 wrote:Sharon/Alessa likely pulled a James Sunderland and willingly repressed her memory.
While that would be one of those ways to write around it, I'd find it very contrived.
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER: Silent Hill 2
James had most likely just killed his wife and was still in shock about it. Then the powers of the town conjure up the letter his brain fabricated within his very hands...so it was easy for him to go with that solution.
We are to believe that for 6 years these repressed memories stayed repressed, yet her father was perfectly aware of an apparent danger that forced them to relocate several times in these 6 years, even though he did not witness any of the events in Silent Hill.

My point is, so far I have problems getting into the plot because I run into these tiny problems. Of course somebody who isn't familiar with the games plot wouldn't even run into these and I have high hopes that the writer did get around those issues. But still I can't help but point them out...only all the better if it turns out the worries were unfounded.
I'm sure JKristine35 was saying "pulled a James" as in having memories repressed, though purposely in Alessa's case, not like James's. Obviously, James didn't repress them on his own control.

I agree with you on the plot-hole of having Harry/Chris move around. Though maybe it isn't a plothole--perhaps, like Harry Mason from SH1, Harry/Chris was attacked by an Order member, somehow found out a group of people were out to get him (via constant attacks, maybe?) and is now forced to move every so often whenever he gets signs that Order members are on their way towards him and his daughter.
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Re: Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

Post by JKristine35 »

I'm pretty sure it's the Order that's causing them to move around. And even if it's not, if her subconcious wants the memories to be repressed badly enough, then they're going to stay repressed. Chris probably knows there's something weird about his kid, he just doesn't know what it is or what to do about it. I mean, who thinks to themselves "Maybe my daughter is repressing memories of a previous life?", and what could he do about it even if he did think that?
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Re: Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

Post by Scanman »

I want to know why the Order is even there. Didn't Gucci say that the town is abandoned? So is the Order only in foggy Silent Hill but can reach out to the real world somehow? There is going to be alot of retconning which kind of makes me sad. But if done properly can be overlooked. The Order must worship dark Alessa somehow. Another question is - will the Order have different sects amongst themselves too? Was Dahlia playing both sides knowing Alessa to be burned? So many questions. . .
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Re: Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

Post by JKristine35 »

Bassett has stated there will be no retconning.
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Re: Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

Post by chounokoe »

JKristine35 wrote:Bassett has stated there will be no retconning.
I also think retconning is a bit harsh of a word to use here, but I have to go with Scanmans intention of saying that Basset will have to loosen some screws here, tigthen some bolds there and install some serious fireworks to ensure that all these elements worked smoothly.

I already said, I think it is possible to explain many of the new things already without knowing the proper plot. Only because the town is officially abandoned it wouldn't keep cultists from using it as a hideout. Maybe Dahlia has no connection to the Order at all in the movie canon and it is all Claudias doing.
Though regarding that I am still wondering who Claudia is within the movies canon.

The problem is, while I think the movies should be judged on their own merrits as well, they are still adaptations and it's always a viable question to ask, how the subject matter was handled in comparison to the original.
SH1 both the game and the movie have a special place within that whole problem, because the game was bound to have elements that need to be retconned or at least ignored in sequels, because it was never fully intended to become a series.
The movie on the other hand worked pretty well to include later elements into the basic plot-structure of SH1, though it also had some elements that were there, but simply didn't work out as well in a movie.

The question is how the movie canon will react when trying to be reinserted into a point of the series where it already possessed a pretty tightly written history and mythology.
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Re: Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

Post by Scanman »

JKristine35 wrote:Bassett has stated there will be no retconning.
How can that even be possible? Gans made no mention of the Order in the 1st film. Wouldn't the Brethren have mentioned the silent war with the Order that has supposedly been taking place for generations? It seems Dahlia has to have been playing both sides possibly being a member of the Order (secretly maybe?) and also appeasing Christabella and her fanatics. I think she used them knowing that Alessa would be burned thus awaking Dark Alessa so she wouldn't have to harm her own daughter directly, plus she would then know that Dark Alessa would wipe out the enemies of the Order. Just an idea. . .

Now since Gans has made no metion of the Order or their Intentions in foggy SH or real SH in the 1st film, what then would you call all of this back info we will now be receiving from Basset about the story if not retconning? What about the ending? Basset will have to go back and show us what really happened which is really a form of a retcon. Or how did Chris/Harry get all of the cultish objects? If SH:R takes place 6 yrs after the 1st film, what is Heather/Sharon since she wasn't a reincarnated baby like in SH3 and how do they know another cult is after them if Bassett doesn't go back and show us a "TRUTH" that took place during SH1 that we didn't see ourselves the first time?

You guys may not like the word retcon, but since Gans fudged stuff up, how is it possible for Bassett to fix the story without a retcon here and there? I just don't see how it is even possible! Do you??? :wink:
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Re: Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

Post by jdnation »

Retcons involve purposely contradicting clearly established information. But Bassett with regards to the Order is not contradicting anything previously established, so he can easily fill in the gaps with anything he prefers. It may not have been what Gans might've done, nor was anything explicitly stated in the movie, but it is consistent with everything that is presented in the film itself. This is just expanding the mythos.

For example:

Expansion/development: In Metal Gear Solid, it is revealed that Solid Snake is a clone of Big Boss. This was never at all inferred to or stated or even intended in the original 2 Metal Gear games.

Retcon: Grey Fox is presented in Portable Ops as a fully grown man with no family when Big Boss encounters him. But Grey Fox was one of the child Soldiers Big Boss took in like those at Outer Heaven. And according to Naomi in MGS1, she was adopted by him when he was still a child soldier. Portable Ops retconned information in MG2 and MGS1 in this regard.
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Re: Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

Post by JKristine35 »

Scanman wrote:How can that even be possible? Gans made no mention of the Order in the 1st film. Wouldn't the Brethren have mentioned the silent war with the Order that has supposedly been taking place for generations?
Actually, the Order is referenced in the first film, just not in an upfront way. According to Gans, the woman in the hotel painting that Rose cuts through is Jennifer Carroll, one of the founders of the Order.
Scanman wrote:Now since Gans has made no metion of the Order or their Intentions in foggy SH or real SH in the 1st film, what then would you call all of this back info we will now be receiving from Basset about the story if not retconning? What about the ending? Basset will have to go back and show us what really happened which is really a form of a retcon. Or how did Chris/Harry get all of the cultish objects? If SH:R takes place 6 yrs after the 1st film, what is Heather/Sharon since she wasn't a reincarnated baby like in SH3 and how do they know another cult is after them if Bassett doesn't go back and show us a "TRUTH" that took place during SH1 that we didn't see ourselves the first time?
You have a very different definition of the term "retcon" than I, and I suspect Bassett, do. I've always seen a retcon to be a change in the established facts, not an addition of information that fits within the established story. Explaining the ending, showing where Chris got the seal, explaining the Order - none of that is a retcon. Now, if Bassett were to show that Alessa was 11 when she was burned, that would be a retcon because the first film establishes that she was 9 at the time of the burning.

Also, I do not agree that anything about the first film's story was "fudged up" or in need of fixing. It stood well enough on its own while still retaining the fundamental basics of the game's story.
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Re: Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

Post by Scanman »

Okay I see where you are coming from. I on the other hand have always thought of a retcon as when you go back and try to fit things in the story after the fact so that you can add more to the story that wasn't there originally. I never thought of it as a contradiction because contradictions just plain suck! Or another retcon for me is when you think something that happened was true, but in reality something totally different occurs. Like in Halloween Resurrection when Laurie Strode actually didn't behead Michael, but a paramedic instead because Michael swapped out the body. Now that isn't a contradiction but it is still a retcon to me because that isn't what H20 showed us as the truth at the time, but H:R retconned the fact that it wasn't Michael Myers she killed. See what I mean by retcon?
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Re: Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

Post by AuraTwilight »

Okay I see where you are coming from. I on the other hand have always thought of a retcon as when you go back and try to fit things in the story after the fact so that you can add more to the story that wasn't there originally.
This definition would make every sequel that has ever been made a retcon, by definition.
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Re: Speculation: Why is Dark Alessa here? Her role?

Post by Scanman »

AuraTwilight wrote:
Okay I see where you are coming from. I on the other hand have always thought of a retcon as when you go back and try to fit things in the story after the fact so that you can add more to the story that wasn't there originally.
This definition would make every sequel that has ever been made a retcon, by definition.
Then I'm explaining what I mean wrong. Adding to the end of the story is a sequel because it is a continuation of that story. Adding to the middle of the original story later on after we have already seen the 1st story all the way through would be a retcon in my eyes. See the difference?

Example - (Halloween Series again) "In John Carpenters Halloween 1, Michael Myers stalks Laurie Strode and her friends when they are baby-sitting. He kills Lauries friends, but Laurie fights Michael and lives. Loomis shoots Michael but he escapes.
Now in H2, it is revealed that Michael Myers is really after Laurie because she was his biological sister and he wants to kill his known family members. While in the hospital, Laurie starts having dreams remembering as a little girl visiting Michael in the Asylum."


This isn't just a sequel or continuation of the story, they went back to the beginning and changed the story and it is now a different truth from what we believed when we originally saw the first film. Instead of Michael Myers stalks & kills baby-sitters, it is now Michael Myers real goal is to kill his family members.
They added facts after the fact of the original story in order to justify why he is still after Laurie in order to continue the story. It isn't a contradiction, but to me this is a retcon because this isn't what was originally thought up when the first story was written.
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