Douglas Cartland confirmed

Discuss the latest about the second Silent Hill Movie

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cascade88
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Re: Douglas Cartland confirmed

Post by cascade88 »

JKristine35 wrote:So if the movie really ends with
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
Harry, Heather, and Vincent walking out of Silent Hill together,
then does that mean
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
Douglas might die?
I have to say that if that is the case
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
it'd be pretty depressing, to me. :( Probably not neccesarily "depressing" to everyone, but hey, Douglas is a cool guy. I don't want his character killed off for no real reason. If it happens, it'd better be for a good reason.
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Re: Douglas Cartland confirmed

Post by Kenji »

cascade88 wrote:
JKristine35 wrote:So if the movie really ends with
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
Harry, Heather, and Vincent walking out of Silent Hill together,
then does that mean
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
Douglas might die?
I have to say that if that is the case
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
it'd be pretty depressing, to me. :( Probably not neccesarily "depressing" to everyone, but hey, Douglas is a cool guy. I don't want his character killed off for no real reason. If it happens, it'd better be for a good reason.
Hate to bring this up, but it'd also be slightly tasteless, given the production history.

But only a little. It's not like they'd be doing it on purpose.
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Re: Douglas Cartland confirmed

Post by JKristine35 »

PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
What if Heather becomes "possessed by Memory of Alessa (assuming Memory of Alessa is a Dark Alessa-type memory of Alessa's hate left imprinted on the town), and ends up killing Douglas like she does in the possessed ending, only earlier in the film?
ETA:
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
What if the reason Heather is with Chris is because Alessa lashed out at Rose in anger after they returned home, accidentally killing her in the process? If Heather then kills Douglas in a rage, whether while possessed, or just because Claudia woke up the overwhelming hate Alessa always carried with her, then that could trigger Heather to remember what happened to Rose and why she suppressed her memories in the first place.
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Re: Douglas Cartland confirmed

Post by wonder's boy »

That's pretty cool, JK. You have a mind about you.

This could also happen: Certain characters, such as Suki and Douglas, may not even enter the Silent Hill foggy/Otherworld universe, assuming they're using the parallel dimension route like in the first film. Perhaps Douglas only has scenes at the beginning of the film or something. Either way, I don't want there to be a lot of real world/foggy world break ups. It worked (sorta) in the first film, and a couple pretty awesome scenes were drawn from that idea (the part where Rose and Chris pass each other in the school courtyard, and the ending scene itself), but I want, say, something like 90% Silent Hill foggy/Otherworld scenes in Revelation.

I also remember posting before about wanting more Otherworld sequences than the first film, and less rushed ones, with more darkness and insanity. So in that 90%, I'd like about 50-55% Otherworld scenes, and about 35-40% foggy world. Though perhaps the characters spending too much time in the Otherworld would desensitize the audience to that whole concept...I dunno.

For the record, cascade88, I think it'd be pretty cool seeing Heather become possessed in a way by her dark/past self and kill someone, or at least come close to it, like her Dad, Douglas, or even Vincent. In my opinion, it would give Heather's character more motivation to achieve her goals, what with carrying around that kind of guilt. Perhaps it wasn't her fault, but she still did it, while possessed. Something like that would drive me close to mad and also make me want to stop what evil force was doing it.

Makes me think just who the antagonist is in the film. Claudia? Alessa? Both, perhaps? Is Alessa going to be an antagonist specifically, or is her history as a whole going to kind of play that role? And where does Claudia fit in exactly with Alessa's past, with the active fanatics from the first film, and the town itself? I try to look at this without referring too much to the actual game, since the two stories obviously have their own paths. From there, it gets kind of blurry, trying to piece every character together.

I need to stop predicting and just wait for a freakin' trailer and shut up. :D
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Re: Douglas Cartland confirmed

Post by Yuki »

I doubt Alessa will be antagonist; she IS Heather, after all. Even with Alessa's memories in SH3, Heather didn't go insane and start trying to slaughter everyone.
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Re: Douglas Cartland confirmed

Post by JKristine35 »

But movie Alessa is different than game Alessa. Game Alessa wasn't batshit insane and liable to dance in the blood of people she was torturing with barbed wire. It wouldn't be Alessa herself as an antagonist so much as the pain and hate etched into her by the cult. If Heather had to fight the emergence of her own dark side as the "true" Alessa woke up within her, that would make sense within the context of the movie. I think it's pretty important that they show how Heather/Alessa finally learns to control her insanity and hatred, no matter how they do it. Because the allegedly normal and rational Heather is a huge leap from the crazy and violent Alessa seen in the first movie.
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Re: Douglas Cartland confirmed

Post by Yuki »

But she only had hatred for the cult, the people who burned her. Dahlia and Rose and Sharon were all left completely alone; I don't think she was insane, only consumed by hatred for those specific people.
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Re: Douglas Cartland confirmed

Post by JKristine35 »

^ Actually, that's not really true. Anna is 30 at the time of the film's events, so she was either born in Alessa's world or a few weeks or months old when Alessa was burned, yet that doesn't stop Alessa from trapping and brutally murdering her. There's no reason why Alessa couldn't have separated her from her mother the very first time she was taken outside of the church, but that was never done, and there's no evidence Alessa feels any regret over trapping and killing an innocent woman.
Then there's Lisa, who even Dark Alessa admits didn't deserve what was done to her.
And what about Cybil? There's a strong implication Alessa was influencing her when she allowed herself to be caught and beaten, and the time it took to burn her pretty perfectly fits the time needed for Alessa to make her deal with Rose and still keep Sharon out of harm's way. Even if Alessa wasn't influencing her, it's pretty damn heartless to allow someone to be beaten and murdered and do nothing to help that person. Alessa could have brought the Otherworld with ease, giving Cybil time to escape, but instead she did nothing. She didn't even send one of her fog world monsters to distract them.
Then there's the "hundreds of people" the newspapers Rose and Chris read talk about. Over a hundred people went missing the night of the fire, a hell of a lot more than were in the church watching Alessa burn. Since Anna's presence proves Alessa has no issues with punishing innocent family members of cultists, I'm betting there's a real good chance at least a few of those missing people are completely unassociated with Alessa's pain.
Rose is relegated to a life of complete isolation, a fate some would say is worse than death, all because Alessa is selfish. Dahlia has a similar fate, though for different reasons.
In short, Alessa is selfish, cruel, and tremendously violent. She feels no empathy for anyone but herself, and does not appear to distinguish between innocent and guilty, except in the case of her two mothers. She will gladly destroy the lives of anyone necessary, even kind people like Cybil and Rose, so she can get what she wants. Sounds pretty insane to me.
I'm not saying it's her fault she's that way, it's definitely the cult that drove her to insanity. That's the irony of it all, Alessa became a more powerful version of the very people who hurt her.
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Re: Douglas Cartland confirmed

Post by wonder's boy »

^ LOVE this post. It's really tells it all as it is. The chain continues...which is why there even is Heather. I believe Heather's ultimate goal in Revelation will be to stop this destructive, hateful, murderous chain. I wonder, though, what it will take for this to happen.

Film Alessa is much different from that of the legitimate game Alessa. Film Alessa seems much more driven to punish and seek revenge, while game Alessa has some revenge in mind while sort of seeking to free herself through rebirth. Don't hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong (I'm only on my first half pint of vodka). With this in mind, a revenge-infested person seems much more insane than someone seeking freedom and rebirth.

This leads me to wonder just what Bassett has in mind for making this sequel more in line with the games than the first film. I honestly hope it isn't too familiar with the games, as I like the fresh, sort of "reboot" film version of Alessa's story. It's more unpredictable than recycling the game to each detail. Also sort of necessary... A film is a film, and a game is a game. There's no denying this. Games are a very unique experience, as the viewer/player is in control of a lot of what happens (especially in today's gaming world), and a film viewer is left to experience and interpret what they see.
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Re: Douglas Cartland confirmed

Post by Yuki »

I can see your point, JK, but on the point of Anna: she is still part of the cult, and actively antagonizes Dahlia. :/ I see Alessa as selfish but not outright malicious toward everyone.
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Re: Douglas Cartland confirmed

Post by FrankRD »

The reason why Otherworld scenes can't be prominent, in my opinion, is because the plot isn't really capable of moving forward with them.
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Re: Douglas Cartland confirmed

Post by Aerith Gainsborough »

Did you all not forget that Alessa lashed out at (who we assume to be) Lisa? Dark Alessa even says, "She even hurt someone who was only curious!" I would say that she just wants revenge, simply, but she was just so angry and hurt that she took it out on one person who just didn't deserve it. It's like when you're angry and you're just in a sour mood towards everyone around you, even if it's not about them.
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Re: Douglas Cartland confirmed

Post by Yuki »

I know she hurt Lisa, but other than her, she only seemed to hurt the people related to the cult in some fashion. When you're in a bad mood and lash out, once the source of your sourness goes away/is resolved, you don't continue lashing out. The cult's gone.
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Re: Douglas Cartland confirmed

Post by JKristine35 »

Yes, Anna antagonized Dahlia... 30 years after Alessa first started punishing her for a crime she didn't commit. You're right about Alessa not being outright malicious to everyone, though it's certainly true she has purposely harmed innocents because she does not distinguish between those who are guilty and deserving of her hate and their innocent family members. Then there's Lisa, who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. What makes Alessa so very nasty though is her complete lack of empathy for others. Killing an innocent police woman, tearing apart a family, forcing two women to live in isolation for the rest of their lives, all so she can be happy, are all trademarks of an inability to feel pity, empathy, or guilt. That makes Alessa a textbook psychopath, though sociopath may be the more correct term, since psychopaths are generally born that way and sociopaths are made to be like that by their upbringing. Either way, she fits the clinical definition of someone who's insane, even if it's not her fault she's like that. I'm very interested in how Bassett will explain how she went from insane to normal between her Alessa - Heather incarnations, and how Heather will deal with the knowledge of her previous actions once she remembers who she is.
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Re: Douglas Cartland confirmed

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I think movie!Alessa is clearly more violent than game!Alessa, but I also think she's a more complex character than her video game counterpart. (Ho shit, did I really just say that?) Her relationship with movie!Dahlia is what interests me most: by all accounts, she should hate her mother and want her as dead as the people who actually burned her. But either because she sees her mother's remorse, or, as they say at the end of the movie, "Mother is God in the eyes of a child,"* she spares her.

There's even the detail that I think someone on this forum pointed out--the fact that when Anna stones Dahlia on the church steps, Dahlia gives her the evil eye, and then Pyramid Head appears behind Anna, almost as if to say, "Yeah, I got your back.** And Anna's. In my hand. And now I'm throwing her back against the church doors and blood's splattering everywhere. Yeah, it's pretty awesome."

*For the first time I wonder if this is a reference to SH4. If it is, I think it's a happy coincidence. Then again, there does seem to be a theme about mothers going on in the series that the movie definitely capitalized on.

But yeah, at the end of the day, I think we can all agree that Alessa's just a little disturbed.

EDIT: **Or, alternatively, "Uh-uh, Anna. She's MINE to deal with."
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Re: Douglas Cartland confirmed

Post by KiramidHead »

Well, the Alessa in the movie is the evil side of her being. If Heather is both evil and good meshed together, the dark shit is probably somewhat neutralized, but not completely. She just has more restraint now, I'd think.
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Re: Douglas Cartland confirmed

Post by JKristine35 »

Even after combining with Sharon, Alessa left Dahlia to live the rest of her life in complete isolation, a fate many would argue is worse than death. Rose gets the same treatment, even though she did nothing but help Alessa, because Alessa is incredibly selfish and has no regard for anyone but herself. Chris' life was pretty well ruined too. Even though he's a bad father, it's overly cruel to have his entire family ripped away from him, with not even a goodbye. Alessa now has both sides of the soul, but her evil side is still dominant, and my guess is that it will remain that way until she gets a wakeup call that her behavior has consequences, and that she's destroying the lives of innocent people (my guess is that this will occur when Rose dies).
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Re: Douglas Cartland confirmed

Post by Yuki »

Alessa also probably only has the mind of a young girl who was tortured. She might not even realize that leaving Rose and Dahlia in isolation is torture; she might think "Hey, I get to be with my new mommy, and my old mommy is alive now, so it's all good!".

Hell, Alessa didn't even kill Cybil; you say that she could have stopped the beating in the hospital, but she also could have stopped Pyramid Head from almost decapitating Rose when she meets back up with Cybil. Whether that makes her more or less evil is up to interpretation, but I have trouble thinking she's absolutely insane, especially because this was all of her dark side; Sharon herself was her good side, and it wouldn't surprise me if she was a little dormant after everything that had happened to her.
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Re: Douglas Cartland confirmed

Post by JKristine35 »

Alessa also probably only has the mind of a young girl who was tortured. She might not even realize that leaving Rose and Dahlia in isolation is torture; she might think "Hey, I get to be with my new mommy, and my old mommy is alive now, so it's all good!".
The whole point of Dahlia being in that world at all is that Alessa's punishing her for being weak. Plus, Dark Alessa talks about how lonely Alessa was, and how that was contributing factor in her rage. If Alessa was upset about being lonely herself, then what does she think isolating people is doing to them? So yes, Alessa is fully aware that what she's doing to Dahlia is cruel. And while it's possible she may actually be deluded and arrogant enough to actually believe she's all Rose needs, it's more likely she just really doesn't give a shit about what she's doing to Rose, seeing as she doesn't give a shit about hurting other innocents either.
Hell, Alessa didn't even kill Cybil; you say that she could have stopped the beating in the hospital, but she also could have stopped Pyramid Head from almost decapitating Rose when she meets back up with Cybil.
Alessa did stop PH from hurting Rose and Cybil, just like she stopped the Grey Children. It's no coincidence the Otherworld just happens to lift (or, in the case of the cultists in the school, descend) everytime Rose needs help. She was protecting Rose all along, until she felt Rose was strong enough to continue on her own. Further, look at the strange smile Cybil wears as she stands in front of the cultists. She's clearly being influenced by something outside of herself, and the only one powerful enough to do that is Alessa. I highly doubt it's coincidence that Cybil's burning was the exact amount of time Alessa needed to make the deal with Rose and still keep Sharon safe. It's not an accident the locket swung open, seeing as the clicking of the clasp being opened means it wasn't a case of the locket having been jolted open previously. It went from being completely closed to opening by itself and swinging wide enough open for Christabella to see Sharon's picture. That means Alessa wanted the cultists to go after Rose and Cybil, and the only logical reason for that is so she can set into motion the events that would bring Sharon and Dahlia into the church for her revenge and still ensure Sharon would not be hurt because the cultists would be busy with Cybil. Alessa opened the locket at the right moment, dragged Rose into the Otherworld, and influenced Cybil so the cultists would be busy with something else while she made her deal. That's pretty freaking evil.
Whether that makes her more or less evil is up to interpretation, but I have trouble thinking she's absolutely insane, especially because this was all of her dark side; Sharon herself was her good side, and it wouldn't surprise me if she was a little dormant after everything that had happened to her.
Alessa relegated Dahlia to a lifetime of loneliness and abandonment, forced Rose to exist in almost complete isolation, and tore apart Chris' life by ensuring he would never see his wife again, all after the souls reunited. Her dark side is still dominant, and she's still displaying signs of psychosis.
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Re: Douglas Cartland confirmed

Post by Yuki »

Which smile are you referring to? When she stops fighting in front of the elevator? That doesn't read influence to me at all; that reads "Good, Rose is safe and looking for her daughter instead of getting killed by these psychos", in my opinion.

I think, for the most part, we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see Alessa as evil, merely selfish and immature. Hell, the movie outright states that children find mothers to be like God to them; if that doesn't practically say "Alessa just wants to be with Rose", I don't know what does.
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