First Test Screening Today

Discuss the latest about the second Silent Hill Movie

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JKristine35
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Re: First Test Screening Today

Post by JKristine35 »

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I don't have access to a scanner atm, so I had to go with a crappy cell phone picture. It's on the back cover of the Japanese program guide.
Eh, the pic's pretty big. Anyone know how to resize it?
teosoleil wrote:I think that the concept of being pulled into the past might have been extremely interesting, actually. Would have been a good concept.
There are a few concepts that were initially written into the script and later replaced that I thought should have stayed. The two biggest are the burning scene with Dark Alessa, and Dark Alessa's response to Rose in the hospital. In the original script, when Dark Alessa caught fire, she screamed "Mommy, please help me!", which I think is light years better than "Look at me, I'm burning!". Also in the original script, when Rose asks Dark Alessa who she is, she says "Alessa. This whole world is Alessa." That would have made the movie 1,000 x easier to understand if they hadn't gone and changed it to the "I have many names" metaphor.
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Re: First Test Screening Today

Post by teosoleil »

Yes, I've read that older script version somewhere while lurking on these forums. *Sigh* I hope Revelations is more wise with their dialogue, specifically dialogue that contributes to the mythology of the game/universe being handled. I wonder why "This whole world is Alessa." was removed, that decision was just stupid in regards to adapting it to suit the games more and give the movie a better backstory, all better than the demon/many-named Alessa thing they had going on.
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Re: First Test Screening Today

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CrypticIdentity wrote:Are you talking about the flashback with Alessa's voiceover? Huh. I always kind of liked that, even if it was a bit on the nose. Probably would've been a bit creepier without it, especially afterwards when they do the reveal of the Red Nurse after Dark Alessa and Rose's conversation in the hospital room.
From what I understood reading the original script. There was no narrative voiceover. Rose sort of pushed through doors and entered various rooms that were in fact recreations of events in the past,. She's not literally time traveling back to the past, but rather that the Otherworld was replaying Alessa's memories of what happened and Rose was physically inserted into those scenes seeing things for herself. So we see what happened without being told word for word, and the scenes we piece together to understand what happened.

Other stuff was also cut if I remember correctly... some references to Samael, references that the cult were not Christians, also even in the film we are not told who the father is, and there are some allusions suggesting that Dahlia's child was not simply had out of wedlock. There was something more sinister about it. Most audiences seem to be under the impression that Christabella was just a religious fanatic wishing to burn a child because it was conceived out of wedlock. This may actually not be the case... Christabella might've actually realized that Dahlia did something horrible (literally attempting to birth a demon into the world, Dahlia probably being deceived into thinking it was a god) and was actually trying to stop something bad from happening. She was burning Alessa not because she necessarily likes to do that sort of thing for ritual, but perhaps because she felt she had asolutely no choice and this was the only way to deal with it. Of course something like that would require her to build up excessive zeal to go through with it and even to deal with it after it failed including building up paranoia and a no tolerance policy. Samael would obviously have been trying to mislead Rose into feeling sympathy for the devil and use her to kill Cristabella. This is probably the 'revelation' that I hope this next film will cover. It'll make things far more interesting! Also bringing the story's origin closer to the intentions of Dahlia etc. in the game.
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Re: First Test Screening Today

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JKristine35 wrote:There are a few concepts that were initially written into the script and later replaced that I thought should have stayed. The two biggest are the burning scene with Dark Alessa, and Dark Alessa's response to Rose in the hospital. In the original script, when Dark Alessa caught fire, she screamed "Mommy, please help me!", which I think is light years better than "Look at me, I'm burning!". Also in the original script, when Rose asks Dark Alessa who she is, she says "Alessa. This whole world is Alessa." That would have made the movie 1,000 x easier to understand if they hadn't gone and changed it to the "I have many names" metaphor.
I'm not quite getting what they were doing before. Let me see if I can explain. The explanatory scene would've been like this...instead of just seeing the flashbacks, Rose (along with Dark Alessa) would've traveled into the flashbacks and we would've seen her walking around the Midwich Elementary (for example) while being obviously invisible to everyone, as she watches Alessa being bullied by her classmates in the classroom, and Dark Alessa keeps telling the story. Something like that? I hope that was understandable enough. I actually do like this idea light years more than simply seeing the flashbacks and hearing Dark Alessa's voice over. It would've made the whole explanatory scene more interesting.
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Re: First Test Screening Today

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Other stuff was also cut if I remember correctly... some references to Samael,
Samael was the original script's word for "the demon". It was just as wrong as their idea that Alessa is Satan is in the final cut.
references that the cult were not Christians
They were Manachaists.
and there are some allusions suggesting that Dahlia's child was not simply had out of wedlock. There was something more sinister about it. Most audiences seem to be under the impression that Christabella was just a religious fanatic wishing to burn a child because it was conceived out of wedlock. This may actually not be the case... Christabella might've actually realized that Dahlia did something horrible (literally attempting to birth a demon into the world, Dahlia probably being deceived into thinking it was a god) and was actually trying to stop something bad from happening. She was burning Alessa not because she necessarily likes to do that sort of thing for ritual, but perhaps because she felt she had asolutely no choice and this was the only way to deal with it. Of course something like that would require her to build up excessive zeal to go through with it and even to deal with it after it failed including building up paranoia and a no tolerance policy.
The townspeople believed there was a history of children being possessed by Samael, though no evidence is ever given of this other than the belief of the crazy cultists. Alessa wasn't any more sinister or evil than in the final script, the cultists were simply crazy and Dahlia was brainwashed.
Samael would obviously have been trying to mislead Rose into feeling sympathy for the devil and use her to kill Cristabella. This is probably the 'revelation' that I hope this next film will cover. It'll make things far more interesting! Also bringing the story's origin closer to the intentions of Dahlia etc. in the game.
The Samael in the original script is no more real than Satan is in the final movie. They just swapped out one name for another.
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Re: First Test Screening Today

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Wasn't there also a lot of attention given to the fact the cultists all had blue eyes, as well as the figures in Sharon's sketches? I remember in the script there was a church scene where Rose mentioned Christ and Christabella went all crazy and ranted about how the cult hates Jesus or something like that.
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Re: First Test Screening Today

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Yes on both counts. In the original script, it appears the cultists really were supposed to be dead, and you could tell the dead from the living by their eye color. Sharon's drawings still contain the idea of the cultists having bright blue eyes, though why that is, I don't know. Of course, they changed that idea later on.
As for the Jesus thing, Christabella went into a rant about how Jesus was responsible for all the things wrong in the world by teaching love and forgiveness, which Christabella didn't agree with.
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Re: First Test Screening Today

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Let's not forget the sextet of Pyramid Heads emerging from the black pit in the finale, each wielding a different weapon... the barbed wire bed had potential, but its execution literally caused roaring laughter in the theater both times I saw the movie there. Boooo to budget cuts.
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Re: First Test Screening Today

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I saw the film 4 times in theaters and never heard a peep out of anyone during the bed scene. Sounds like you had the misfortune of having some pretty immature people in the theater.
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Re: First Test Screening Today

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Cristabella believed the Christians were too soft, and also in any case their concepts of God differed.

The response Cristabella gives Rose is because Rose uses Scripture and Christian charity to plead with her to help them and not throw them back out into the Otherworld from the Church sanctuary. Cristabella says, they judge others harshly because they there is a lot at stake. They believe the Christians are responsible for the world's ills because they do not believe in the separation of the spirit from the flesh (referring to gnostic concepts that the spiritual world is good but the material world is bad/evil, a heresy to Christians who hold to the truths that God is good and created the universe and matter which is good in itself prior to the Fall which corrupted the universe, and God incarnated from the spritual realm into the physical realm as Jesus Christ, who uses matter such as earth and water and gives them a sacramental value). The Manachiests are also known for taking aspects from different religions and beliefs and fusing them to form and be accomodated within their own. This in and of itself is more interesting as it serves as grounds for the cult mixing Christian lore and symbols with the demonic and opens wide the possibilities for incorporating various deities and demons and lore into the world of Silent Hill.

I believe the blue-eyes thing was also homage to The Midwich Cuckoos.
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Re: First Test Screening Today

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^I like your theory/explanation. It makes sense, which I don't get to hear a lot of. :mrgreen:

Now, what I'm hoping to get from the sequel is the underlying motives of the bad guys from the first movie. Why was Dahlia such a doormat, why did the Order consider Sharon/Alessa so much more evil than anyone or anything else,why did Christabella enjoy her work so much, etc.

However, I don't agree with jdnation's idea that Dahlia was the real bad guy behind this. The way they built up her character throughout the movie was as more of a crazed, harmless individual as opposed to the crazed psychopathic zealot from the games. I can't say that she was the bad guy--she didn't seem to have it in her.

...I think. Too many conspiracy theories. -_-
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Re: First Test Screening Today

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Why was Dahlia such a doormat,
According to the actress, Dahlia was weak and blind to the truth, so she didn't speak up in time. "Brainwashed" would be a good word for it. Considering she and Chnristabella were sisters and the cult had been around for awhile, just imagine their upbringing. Their parents were likely cultists too and taught their daughters to obey the cult at all costs. Dahlia's weak personality didn't help either.
why did the Order consider Sharon/Alessa so much more evil than anyone or anything else,
The cult in the film is not The Order. They are a separate cult who stands in direct opposition to The Order. Gans hinted in an interview that The Order still exists in the movie timeline by saying Silent Hill has "many cults". Another hint was given when he stated that the woman in the hotel painting is Jennifer Carroll. There are a few reasons they would have hated Alessa more than any other. For starters, there was the whole lack of a father thing, and Dahlia's continued silence about it (which suggests she may very well have had an affair with a married man, or been raped). Then there's the history of witchcraft that is hinted as running in their family (which I think means Alessa's powers are probably some type of hereditary mutation). The woman in the church painting was specifically painted to look like a relative of Dahlia and Christabella, meaning that there could well be a belief that witchcraft runs in the family, an image Christabella would very much want to stomp out. Naturally, this would make Alessa's illegitimate birth even more suspicious to the cultists. By declaring Alessa a witch, Christabella reminds everyone that she is not a weakling who will put up with any more witches in her own family line, thus immediately stopping any chance the cultists may cast suspicion on her for not considering the idea Alessa may be one of "family witches". The last nail in the coffin is probably the fact that Alessa very likely was showing powers long before the burning. If I recall correctly, a scene was shot that depicted Alessa causing butterflies to flock too her in an unnatural manner, causing her teachers and classmates to take notice of her strange abilities. In the original script, it's made clear that Alessa's powers were what broke the chain while she was being burned, though the final movie only implies it. Either way, those powers alone would have led to her being declared a witch. I believe the butterfly scene was likely dropped when they switched over to Dark Alessa's narrative in post due to the fact that Gans didn't want the audience to think Alessa was aware of her powers. According to Dark Alessa, anyone who is in as much pain as Alessa can create alternate realities and monsters, prematurely wilt flowers, and create doubles of themselves. Of course, this is wrong, but Alessa doesn't understand that. Gans portrayed her as genuinely believing she was targeted for not having a father (she wouldn't have understood the family history at that age), because she never understood and still doesn't understand her powers aren't normal. It confused the audience and was a terrible decision, IMO.
why did Christabella enjoy her work so much, etc.
That probably goes back to the whole family history thing. Christabella wants to put herself and her family in a good light, so she uses her chnarismatic personality to rise to power and ensure she would never be looked down on for her family history. By the time she burns Cybil, she's spent 30 years being attacked by supernatural forces, so when she finds a sacrificial victim who may actually help stop Alessa (in her mind), she's glad to do it and to end the nightmare she's been living. Sharon's burning would be an even greater example of this, considering she's one of Alessa's doubles.
However, I don't agree with jdnation's idea that Dahlia was the real bad guy behind this. The way they built up her character throughout the movie was as more of a crazed, harmless individual as opposed to the crazed psychopathic zealot from the games. I can't say that she was the bad guy--she didn't seem to have it in her.
I completely agree. As Deborah Kara Unger said, it was Dahlia's silence that caused harm. Dahlia herself was weak, easily led, and certainly an unfit mother... but she was not evil or malicious.
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Re: First Test Screening Today

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I don't believe she was the 'bad guy' either... I think she's just being used, or tragically deluded into thinking that she was doing something good. I don't think she acted alone, but she does bear the responsibility, and that's something Cristabella tried to fix. Cristabella didn't do anything to punish Dahlia herself, other than take the daughter she gave birth to. Also given that Cristabella waited awhile to do the burning ceremony on Alessa until she was older either suggests that:
a) Cristabella sought another way out that didn't require them to burn or kill Alessa (otherwise she'd have done so a long time ago) or
b) Cristabella for whatever cultic knowledgable reasons knew that simply killing the child would not end the threath, but rather they had to wait for a specific time to perform a ritual ceremony that would. For all we know Cristabella didn't intend to actually kill Alessa, but rather exorcise her of something with a slim chance she'd survive the brutal torment.
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Re: First Test Screening Today

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The conversation between Christabella and Dahlia in the flashback heavily points to Dahlia's lack of consent for the ritual being the reason Chistabella waited so long to burn Alessa. Christabella practically begs Dahlia to allow Alessa to be purified. This means either A) Christabella believes in respecting the wishes of her sister (unlikely), or B) she knows Dahlia might get the police involved if Alessa is taken without her consent. Christabella likely believed Dahlia knew what would happen, which makes sense because Dahlia was a member of the cult and knew what they did to "witches" and what that private room was used for. Plus, the painting of the burning woman on the door. Christabella probably never realized until later her sister was so deluded as to not grasp the obvious intent of the cult in regards to Alessa.
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Re: First Test Screening Today

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Hmm... all right, it all fits, more or less.

But about the reasoning behind the burning itself, I have a few ideas. They supposedly knew that Alessa had these supernatural powers for some time before they had her "purified," right? They also mentioned that burning the witches could "stave off the apocalypse" or something, I think. So, what if they had to wait to sacrifice her at a specific time, to prevent some sort of heralded armageddon, like in Homecoming. Doing so at an incorrect time could plausibly result in the witch gaining the upper hand and turning their artifacts of power against them. Maybe the specific date she was burned had something to do with it, perhaps doing it on a certain day would deprive her of access to her magic or something, although that's just speculation.
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Re: First Test Screening Today

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I really don't think Dahlia was at all unaware of what was going to happen when they went in that room, yet was only deluding herself into the state of mind that it might just be right, and might just work, for whatever reason.

What I believe is this: Dahlia knew full and well what was going to happen, but she got cold feet at the worst possible moment. Perhaps she thought Christabella would let her come along, and when her sister made her stay behind, she suddenly got her cold feet and realized just what she had decided to do with her child. Being left outside of the room was what most likely triggered this reconsideration. She must have had a tough time getting the police involved, or was having a breakdown or something, or those cultists know how to string up a bitch quick and get a witch burning fire going awfully fast. Maybe they had all this prepared way ahead, I dunno.

Or it just took her and the police that long to get there because of whatever reason. Which isn't good for the SHPD's reputation. This flashback scene was handled badly, I think. It leaves spots blurry that shouldn't be blurry if you're going to depict a straight up flashback in that fashion. They should've went with Rose being put in those moments, if you ask me. Rose is our avatar in the film, and her actually being in those moments could have made the scenes more emotional and far more interesting to watch.

Anyway, enough for me about how the first film could've been better. I must stop this mess. There's no changing it all. I guess it's up to Revelation to make this whole story more cohesive, while holding its own ground as an enjoyable film, among other duties. Revelation as a lot of responsibilities, if you think about it, doesn't it?
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Re: First Test Screening Today

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Dahlia never intended to let Christabella harm Alessa, at least not in the final version of the movie. There was a look of shock on her face when Christabella took Alessa, at which point she realized they were going to do something much worse than just say a bunch of prayers. That's the whole point of the "What have I done? Oh God!" lines. She had no idea what she was walking into, even though she should have, because she deluded herself into believing her sister wouldn't harm her own niece. According to the actress, Dahlia was "blinded by faith", which directly links into Christabella's statement, "Trust in us, Dahlia. Have faith in our virtue." Despite everything that told her not to, Dahlia did decide to have faith in their "virtue", only to discover Christabella's meaning of the term was a lot different from her own.
As for why it took her so long to get to the police, we don't know where the police station was located in regards to the hotel. It could have been all the way across town. Considering Dahlia didn't drive to the hotel, and none of the cultists or the limo driver were going to agree to drive her to the police station, that left her running in high heels an unknown distance. Plus, we know the cultists must have had everything planned out ahead of time because the shackles on the seal were small, meaning they were specifically made for a child - Alessa. They'd been waiting 9 years for Dahlia to give in, so it makes sense they wasted no time in beginning the ritual. Add that to poor Dahlia running across town, and you get a fairly wide time gap.
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Re: First Test Screening Today

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Poor girl, either way. The whole apocalypse was caused by their very attempts at stopping it. If only they had just let it alone, everyone would have been saved a great deal of suffering. :/
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Re: First Test Screening Today

Post by JKristine35 »

Exactly. They brought on the very thing they feared by using their religion as a weapon to hurt an innocent child, both in creating their own personal "apocalypse" and by turning an untainted child into a monster. I'm glad SHR is following Heather, because that means Alessa will finally find an end to her mental suffering and will become "normal" (as close to normal as possible, at least). Even though she wanted it, I never thought the first film's ending was fitting for Alessa. Trapping herself and Rose in her world would have only led to more suffering, since I don't think there's any doubt Rose would have eventually either gone mad or stopped loving Alessa. To finally destroy the monster the cult created and be able to live happily in our world as a normal person is the ending I think Alessa deserves.
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Re: First Test Screening Today

Post by Mr.FLOOT »

Hopefully Revelation will shed some light onto the ending of SH as the whole trapped into the foggy world thing wasn't quite clear.... especially since it was never explained that Alessa and Sharon had reunited, only implied. Also it will be interesting to see how Christopher/Harry got Heather.... I mean, he couldn't see them at the end of the first film so I'm wondering how this one will explain everything.... unless some of it is retconned.
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