The Order Is Confirmed

[JKristine35]

But any scene to show that she had powers was deleted, and if you watch the film not knowing any of this it does just appear more like 'angry girl, demon shows up'. It'd be nice for this one to explain it.

She exhibits powers twice before Dark Alessa shows up, first by wilting the flowers and then burning the nurse.

[DistantJ]

But the film almost implies that that happens when anybody is angry enough. "Your hate starts to change the world", she says. It'd be nice to show her as having powers BEFORE any of this.

[JKristine35]

Err, no. There's nothing anywhere in the film implying anyone who gets mad can alter realities or brutalize other people. Dark Alessa only says that because Alessa herself doesn't grasp the obvious fact that people not gifted with unnatural powers don't tend to kill other people by looking at them or create alternate realities.

[teosoleil]

That's the thing, IMO: the scenes of Dark Alessa/Alessa having powers in any way in the film are way too short or ambigious and not used to a full extent to tell the audience that Alessa has powers which is why she was called a witch. For anyone who hasn't read the SH2004 script, played the games, or done anything SH-related except watch the movie, it would seem as if a demon just gives Alessa the chance to get revenge, which is the way I initially interpreted it as well, though I've played all the games, etc. It only took research for me to see that Alessa had some powers beforehand.

(or I really have a short attention span).

In either case, I would like Bassett to explain the differences between movie Cult and movie Order, why Rose/Alessa were stuck in the fog world at the end of the first movie, why Alessa was called a witch (clearly explained this time), some relevance to what happened to the first movie's cult, backstory on Dahlia and Christabella and the paintings, and major mythology with whatever the new movie Order wants from Heather.

[Mephisto]

I liked The Order from the games, so, this is good news to me.

[The Adversary]

>The cult from the first film was never addressed as The Order. At least, not that I recall.<
Right, but in the context of the films, the cult could be called, by Bassett, "the Order." I don't really know, though—I don't follow the film much, if at all. Going by JKristine's post, though, it looks like the game's Order exists in both the games and films now.

[Yuki]

But any scene to show that she had powers was deleted, and if you watch the film not knowing any of this it does just appear more like 'angry girl, demon shows up'. It'd be nice for this one to explain it.

She was called a witch multiple times in the film, and it was explicitly stated that the "demon" was the dark part of Alessa.

[JKristine35]

I agree that the devil symbolism on Dark Alessa is so overwhelming that it leads people to either ignore or make up excuses for why Alessa is shown with powers in the hospital, and that it needs to be fixed by Bassett. It doesn't help that the metaphor in Dark Alessa's description of Sharon led many people to think Sharon was Alessa's daughter. My point was that 'retcon' is not the right word for depicting something that's already part of canon, and that there really are signs that Dark Alessa isn't the devil, whether or not they're overshadowed by her symbolism.

[DistantJ]

But the film makes no effort to explain that she had powers up until that point, and it does talk as if the powers just appeared becuase she was so angry. Yes, the kids call her a witch, but that happened a lot in history, people being accused of being a witch for no good reason, and the film even goes out of its way to show that they mainly thought she was a witch because she didn't have a father.

I'm just saying that this one could go into more depth and explain it better because as far as most people know Alessa had no powers until the burning.

[JKristine35]

People who get mad don't just start killing flowers and hurting people by looking at them. There's a reason why Alessa was able to do those things. There's no way to get around the fact that Alessa was exhibiting supernatural powers in those scenes, which means she wasn't normal. Whether or not they showed her having powers previously, the film still flat-out says she had those abilities before Dark Alessa showed up. People are tortured, raped, and murdered all over the world every single day. Many of them would be just as angry, scared, and in pain as Alessa. It wouldn't make sense for the movie to claim that all of them could exhibit psionic powers.

[DistantJ]

So why have I never met anybody other than game fans who think she had powers until the burning happened? Once again I'll say it, the sequel could explain it better. Currently if you accept that Alessa has powers it'd be like Carrie seeming completely normal up until the kids pull off the pigs blood prank.

But yeah, so you're saying that a better interpretation is that those scenes reveal that she DID have powers, and that is why the kids called her a witch? I mean that is really cool but there's absolutely nothing in the film to confirm or even imply that she had been that way all along. The flowers could have died from the ghostly presence etc., even Christophe Gans refers to Dark Alessa as 'the devil' in the DVD special features.

I know it wouldn't make sense, but the movie basically says 'Alessa's hate grew so strong that...' and that her 'hate changes the world', which, to most people, would imply that either she gained or discovered said powers after the burning due to her anger, or that her hate 'created' the powers, or, in my interpretation, that her hate gave the demon/evil presence a vessel into the world.

It'll be nice for the sequel to make it more clear and confirm it properly. A lot of non-fans' main complaint about the film was that it was confusing and I think a lot of the omitted scenes of Alessa's powers pre-burning could have prevented that, and the sequel could make up for it by including a clearer explanation.

[JKristine35]

Neither I nor anybody else on this thread have ever claimed she was shown to have powers before the burning in the final film. What I have pointed out repeatedly is that she is most definitely shown manifesting unnatural powersbefore Dark Alessa's arrival, which, no matter how you cut it, proves she didn't need a demon to hurt people or change the world around her. But people ignore that or make up illogical theories to explain it, because Dark Alessa's devil symbolism is overwhelming in most places. Yes, Gans wanted her to symbolically represent the devil, with Sharon representing God, but people didn't pick up on the fact that it was just symbolism. And no, Gans never calls Dark Alessa the devil. He just says he told the 10-year-old girl who he wanted to play her that she was the devil. He's been very explicit about her not being the devil in everything he's said not aimed at small children who haven't even been hired yet. Even Jodelle's quotes prove he later went into more explanation about the character, because she repeatedly refers to Dark Alessa as "the bad part of Alessa" in interviews.
My point still stands. There is evidence in the movie that Alessa had her own powers, and that Dark Alessa isn't the devil. It may not be as blatant or in-your-face as the symbolism, but it's still there. This isn't just something Gans pulled out of his ass in interviews.

[Yuki]

I agree that the devil symbolism on Dark Alessa is so overwhelming that it leads people to either ignore or make up excuses for why Alessa is shown with powers in the hospital, and that it needs to be fixed by Bassett. It doesn't help that the metaphor in Dark Alessa's description of Sharon led many people to think Sharon was Alessa's daughter. My point was that 'retcon' is not the right word for depicting something that's already part of canon, and that there really are signs that Dark Alessa isn't the devil, whether or not they're overshadowed by her symbolism.

Question: how do people think Sharon is Alessa's daughter? She only ever says it's the good part of Alessa, doesn't she?

[AuraTwilight]

So why have I never met anybody other than game fans who think she had powers until the burning happened?

Because moviegoers pay more attention to visuals than dialog in general, and the scene uses the visual motifs of a 'Deal with the Devil'.

But yeah, so you're saying that a better interpretation is that those scenes reveal that she DID have powers, and that is why the kids called her a witch? I mean that is really cool but there's absolutely nothing in the film to confirm or even imply that she had been that way all along. The flowers could have died from the ghostly presence etc., even Christophe Gans refers to Dark Alessa as 'the devil' in the DVD special features.

The devil inside Alessa; that's a significant distinction. And kids had been calling Alessa a witch her whole life. There's clearly a reason for that.

I know it wouldn't make sense, but the movie basically says 'Alessa's hate grew so strong that...' and that her 'hate changes the world', which, to most people, would imply that either she gained or discovered said powers after the burning due to her anger, or that her hate 'created' the powers, or, in my interpretation, that her hate gave the demon/evil presence a vessel into the world.

Psychic powers are, generally, the concept of doing things merely by the force of your mind. Hate is a construct of our minds. Ergo, doing things by pure force of hatred is a psychic feat.

Question: how do people think Sharon is Alessa's daughter? She only ever says it's the good part of Alessa, doesn't she?

Because baby. A lot of people saw that and ran with it to mean that Alessa physically gave birth to a child with a part of her own soul in it. Her sexual assault by the janitor is usually cited as proof of this.

[KingCrimson]

I agree that Alessa probably was supposed to have powers prior to wreaking havok on the town, but in DistantJ's defense, Dark Alessa does say: "When you're hurt and scared for so long, your fear and pain turn to hate, and the hate starts to change the world." This implies her hate began to manifest as psychic powers after a long period of pain and fear. To viewers, the most intense pain and fear Alessa was shown suffering was being burned alive, so many people probably got the idea that she got her powers through some combination of intense agony and a deal with the devil. Plus, with Dark Alessa's confusing habit of referring to burnt Alessa in the third person, it makes the issue less cut-and-dry without knowing the deleted scenes and/or video game story.

[JKristine35]

The whole "She's not your child, she's hers" is what causes a lot of people to think Sharon is Alessa's daughter by the janitor. Nevermind the 21 year time gap before Sharon's creation.

This implies her hate began to manifest as psychic powers after a long period of pain and fear.

Regardless of if Alessa just suddenly started showing powers out of the blue or not, it doesn't change that Alessa was manifesting her own powers, and that Dark Alessa had not yet arrived. Which begs the question, why would Alessa need to make a deal with a demon when she had already shown her own ability to literally change the world and to wreak serious havoc on anyone who pissed her off? The short answer: she wouldn't. Plus, it wouldn't make much sense for an outside entity to say Alessa was hurt and scared for "so long", because Alessa was only in the hospital for a couple of hours when the Otherworld was created. That's why Gucci says, "I heard she died that night". If you really look closely at the timeline, you can tell Dark Alessa is speaking from Alessa's own perspective, not a third person viewpoint.

Plus, with Dark Alessa's of referring to burnt Alessa in the third person

She also refers to Sharon as being separate from both herself and Alessa. Considering they all exist in different bodies, I don't see the issue with that.

[KiramidHead]

So, Roger Avary's dialogue bears much of the blame. Kill it with fire!

[JKristine35]

I see two problems: Gans' insistence on stuffing the film with more symbolism than dressing in a Thanksgiving turkey, and Avary's horrible dialogue. Good riddance to Avary. That man should never touch another Silent Hill film as long as he lives.

[teosoleil]

Plus, with Dark Alessa's of referring to burnt Alessa in the third person

She also refers to Sharon as being separate from both herself and Alessa. Considering they all exist in different bodies, I don't see the issue with that.

Would make an interesting premise for SH:R, wouldn't it? The origins of Dark Alessa was sealed up with Alessa/Sharon-hybrid at the end of the first movie, correct?

[JKristine35]

The three of them recombined into one being, making Sharon a complete reincarnation of Alessa with her memories and all parts of her soul.