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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: A pair of bad reviews...
     
         
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Missing since: 22 Jun 2006
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Same here, but it's not going to stop me from seeing it myself to aquire my own opinion.
I feel Friday is going to be a sad though. SH3 is my favorite SH. :/

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: A pair of bad reviews...

Missing since: 13 Aug 2006
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That review made me very uneasy. I, like him, really enjoyed the first film despite its flaws. Even though it got a lot of flack from fans and critics alike I felt like it was a decent attempt at making a movie out of the series. So I'm really nervous that he really didn't like it. I mean, from what I've seen it looks like it could be really good and I hope that I do like it, but now I just have this horrible gut feeling (like literally a sick feeling) that it's going to be awful.

And THIS is why I need to stay away from reviews :evil:

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: A pair of bad reviews...

Missing since: 21 Oct 2012
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If ALL ELSE FAILS....

At least there is Happy Burger

http://movies.yahoo.com/horror/#silent


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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: A pair of bad reviews...
     
         
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Missing since: 06 Nov 2011
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Can the title of this thread be changed? I know it doesn't reveal anything, but "bad reviews" has already spoiled by conceptions about how the movie might be.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: A pair of bad reviews...
     
         
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Missing since: 21 Dec 2006
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I was tempted to read the reviews but I have decided to stay away from them all until I have seen the film for myself. Its not out until next week in the UK so I dont want anything spoiling it or having influence on my opinion of it. I'm really excited to see it so I want to go in with an open mind.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: A pair of bad reviews...
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Jun 2004
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teosoleil wrote:
Can the title of this thread be changed? I know it doesn't reveal anything, but "bad reviews" has already spoiled by conceptions about how the movie might be.


I agree. I'd prefer to go to a movie that I'm anticipating without any preconceptions about its quality. (Not that I expected much from this movie, but there was always just a little bit of hope.)

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: A pair of bad reviews...
     
         
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Missing since: 12 May 2008
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Silent Fantasy wrote:
Goddamnit. :/ I'm not sure what would be so hard to understand about the movie's ending.

From what I've been hearing from someone who saw the film, there's a lot more that Bassett didn't understand about the first movie than just the ending. There are apparently retcons galore, in everything from the ending to what Dark Alessa is to the nature of the cult. Also, if what this person is saying is true, it would appear that Bassett flat-out lied in some of his answers on his blog. It's possible the other person just misunderstood Revelation, but it didn't sound like it. I'll be seeing it tomorrow night, so we'll see. If he did retcon all that stuff, I'm going to be pissed, no matter how good the rest of the film is.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: A pair of bad reviews...
     
         
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Missing since: 13 May 2011
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I agree ^ but then again, the first movie was very difficult to fully understand, especially just seeing it once. Personally after the second time, I figured out more, so perhaps it takes a bit to grasp what MJB did

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: A pair of bad reviews...

Missing since: 18 Sep 2009
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AuraTwilight wrote:
Tautological bullshit where they say the movie sucks because it sucks with no meaningful reasoning. Seems they wanted to hate the movie before they saw it, meaning their opinions literally don't matter. Moving on.


Nobody's opinions really matter except the ones you respect, even if you don't agree with them 100% of the time. And what you have there is a strawman argument if I ever saw one.

I don't necessarily have a lot of faith in this movie. I may go see it this week or next if my life permits my going, but going to try forgoing most of my expectations and try to see this thing in the best viewing position that I can. If it's bad, then it's bad, and I can live with that still being young.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: A pair of bad reviews...

Missing since: 25 Jul 2011
Notes left: 55
Do we know if there are any monsters from the games in SH:R that weren't in the first film? I'd like to know this before I see the movie, so I'm not waiting for something that never happens. Not specific monsters, but whether or not we will see any familiar monsters.


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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 Post subject: Re: A pair of bad reviews...

Missing since: 26 Apr 2009
Notes left: 3219
JKristine35 wrote:
There are apparently retcons galore, in everything from the ending to what Dark Alessa is to the nature of the cult.

I've always been willing to give him a lot of slack in this regards. Think about it, the plot of Silent Hill 3 simply can't follow after the first Silent Hill movie. They need elements of the first Silent Hill game that weren't in the movie for the plot of Silent Hill 3 to even exist, let alone work. The cult and "Dark Alessa" are pretty big elements that need to be changed in particular. Of course, you could then argue that if that's the case they shouldn't have bothered adapting Silent Hill 3 at all, and I'd agree there. But I felt that way about the first Silent Hill movie as well. These just don't seem like adaptations of the video games. Too much is changed to the point where it barely resembles the much superior stories they are adaptation, and I think fans would be a lot more accepting of these movies if they had just gone all out and presented them as new Silent Hill stories.

As for these reviews, they seem to be echoing what I already suspected. I'm obviously going to be giving the movie a fair chance come this Friday, but once I saw the trailers all hope I had for liking this was significantly reduced. It just doesn't look very good to me. I really dislike the first Silent Hill movie, but I may walk away from this one with a new appreciation for it. At least it seemed like it was trying, this just looks dumb. As always, I hope to be proven wrong, and I am definitely willing to cut the story some slack as it has to adapt SH3 and be a sequel to the first movie, but I don't expect to like this at this point.

Based on the spoilers I have read, it sounds to me like they failed pretty bad at both of their goals. It's a terrible SH3 adaptation and a terrible sequel to the first movie. I would argue that the first Silent Hill movie completely missed the point of both SH1 and the Silent Hill series as a whole (because it did), but Revelations seems to completely miss the point of SH3 AND the Silent Hill movie. Incompetence all around!

I also can do nothing but bury my head in my hands if this plot spoiler is true:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Heather does a Super Sayian fusion with Alessa, taking control of the town and being in control of everything! Why does literally every non-canon Silent Hill go for this plot? Does nobody remember how this story turned out in those awful Silent Hill comics? This is the same exact thing as that. This is also very similar sounding to how Tomm Hulett described the original story that Homecoming was going to have, with Alessa and Joshua fighting for control of the town, before it was pointed out to the Homecoming staff how that's NOT HOW SILENT HILL WORKS. Really, it will really amuse me if that's really where this fucking movie goes.


That's about all I have to say until I see the movie for myself. Although I'd also like to point out that based on everything I have seen and heard, there seem to be no actual monsters from Silent Hill 3 in this. Just a few new designs and the same old rehashed monsters from Silent Hill 2 that they don't seem to understand only worked in Silent Hill 2 because they were, you know, symbolic to JAMES. It should have been original/SH3 monsters, not the same old SH2 shit over and over again.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: A pair of bad reviews...

Missing since: 25 Jul 2011
Notes left: 55
NanayaShiki wrote:
Although I'd also like to point out that based on everything I have seen and heard, there seem to be no actual monsters from Silent Hill 3 in this. Just a few new designs and the same old rehashed monsters from Silent Hill 2 that they don't seem to understand only worked in Silent Hill 2 because they were, you know, symbolic to JAMES. It should have been original/SH3 monsters, not the same old SH2 shit over and over again.


This is probably the most disappointing news I've heard about this film so far.


Last edited by The Demon on 25 Oct 2012, edited 1 time in total.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: A pair of bad reviews...
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Quote:
Nobody's opinions really matter except the ones you respect, even if you don't agree with them 100% of the time. And what you have there is a strawman argument if I ever saw one.


There's nothing 'strawman' about it. If a review is going to say a movie sucks, because it sucks (to use the words of another poster), then that is a person who is predisposed to disliking the movie beyond reason. There's no value in that opinion because it has no basis in reality.

Having not read the spoilers, I will say that even if the movie is fucking awful I will enjoy it as shlock, and I'm still high on the euphoria of Book of Memories' quality that nothing can drag me down, ever, this Halloween.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: A pair of bad reviews...

Missing since: 18 Sep 2009
Notes left: 73
AuraTwilight wrote:
There's nothing 'strawman' about it. If a review is going to say a movie sucks, because it sucks (to use the words of another poster), then that is a person who is predisposed to disliking the movie beyond reason. There's no value in that opinion because it has no basis in reality.


Actually, it does count as a strawman argument, and it's even a bit ad hominem. When they say the movie sucks because it sucks -- and while that may be a blatant instance of begging the question -- that doesn't mean their motivation was to walk into the theater already hating a movie they hadn't seen, so they could walk home and complain about a movie they already made their minds up about. You simply do not know that because, well, did you walk into the theater with them and hear them talk about how "this movie is totally going to blow so fucking hard, bro"?

If that's how you can summarize their review, then fine. It's a shitty review by people who won't be reasonable about their feelings for the movie. In fact, it's a shitty review for the same reason I stated earlier: it's question begging. "It sucks because it sucks" is a bullshit statement. And I agree with you there. But you're not doing much better by speculating about their motives when you don't have any real standing to do so.

As for me, if it is a bad movie, I hope I can at least laugh at it and maybe catch it on RiffTrax a few months down the line. I don't really have any high expectations from what I've seen and read.


Last edited by emFox on 25 Oct 2012, edited 1 time in total.

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SHH Cult Subscriber
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 Post subject: Re: A pair of bad reviews...

Missing since: 26 Apr 2009
Notes left: 3219
AuraTwilight wrote:
There's nothing 'strawman' about it. If a review is going to say a movie sucks, because it sucks (to use the words of another poster), then that is a person who is predisposed to disliking the movie beyond reason. There's no value in that opinion because it has no basis in reality.

Not necessarily, they could just be really bad at reviewing. "It sucks because it sucks" could be their way of saying "everything about it sucks" without going into details as to what specifically and why. It doesn't automatically mean that they weren't going to give it a chance, they just didn't convey what they felt properly.

Quote:
Having not read the spoilers, I will say that even if the movie is fucking awful I will enjoy it as shlock, and I'm still high on the euphoria of Book of Memories' quality that nothing can drag me down, ever, this Halloween.

Lucky bastard.


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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: A pair of bad reviews...
     
         
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Missing since: 12 May 2008
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Last seen at: Houston, Tx.
@Nanaya: No. You do not retcon major plot points just to force a movie to fit with a story from a completely different universe. There are plenty of ways it could have been based on SH3 without retconning anything, but Bassett either did not understand the first movie, or just didn't care about what the fans think.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: A pair of bad reviews...

Missing since: 16 Feb 2010
Notes left: 69
JKristine35 wrote:
@Nanaya: No. You do not retcon major plot points just to force a movie to fit with a story from a completely different universe. There are plenty of ways it could have been based on SH3 without retconning anything, but Bassett either did not understand the first movie, or just didn't care about what the fans think.

Agreeing 100% with this.

Read one of the reviews, hoping it is just the reviewer, however he seemed to really understand the source material, so I'm bracing myself now. Still going tomorrow night, regardless, I just hope I'm not too disappointed if it coems to that.

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SHH Cult Subscriber
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 Post subject: Re: A pair of bad reviews...

Missing since: 26 Apr 2009
Notes left: 3219
JKristine35 wrote:
@Nanaya: No. You do not retcon major plot points just to force a movie to fit with a story from a completely different universe. There are plenty of ways it could have been based on SH3 without retconning anything, but Bassett either did not understand the first movie, or just didn't care about what the fans think.

If you are adapting a story then yes you do have to try and make your story fit with it, since it's the story you are trying to tell. No matter how much people disagree with me when I say this, adaptations should be as faithful as they can. Change what you must to make it work as a movie, but when you start changing everything just for the sake of doing something different, you should no longer be able to call yourself an adaptation. Either make your own story or tell the story you are adapting. The exception to this is if you are doing something really clever and using the original story to present a different take on it. But that's also no longer an adaptation. Nobody would claim Shattered Memories is an adaptation of SH1, after all.

But they went into this movie making an adaptation of Silent Hill 3. So, yes, if they need to add previously not-there backstory in order to make it work, that's fine to me. The story of the first Silent Hill movie was stupid and cliche anyway. Distancing the "movie series" from the "witch burning Christain-style cult" can be only a good thing. The movies are adaptations, so they should be adapting their source material. Of course this all may be irrelevant, as I don't expect this movie to succeed as either a Silent Hill 3 adaptation OR a Silent Hill Movie sequel. So neither of us are likely going to walk away from this happy.


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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: A pair of bad reviews...
     
         
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Missing since: 12 May 2008
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The story must fit into the universe it belongs to. If it doesn't, and it has not been clearly stated by the creators that it's not in the same canon as the previous work, then the writer has failed. A sequel must be a sequel first and an adaptation second. Revelation takes place in the movie universe, not the game one, so retconning the universe it is in to fit a completely different one is the mark of an uncaring writer. It's also incredibly disrespectful to the makers of the first movie. Oh and by the way,
[Reveal] Spoiler:
the cult in this movie is the same as the one in the first movie, just a different sect.


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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 Post subject: Re: A pair of bad reviews...

Missing since: 26 Apr 2009
Notes left: 3219
It's a retcon that needs to happen for the story to work, though. That's my point. If this were not trying to be a Silent Hill 3 adaptation and was just a stand-alone sequel and they retconned things I would agree with you. But it IS a Silent Hill 3 adaptation, and that's impossible to do without adding to and changing some of the cult of the first movie. You say that this movie should have been a sequel first and an adaptation second, I disagree. I think it should have been both equally, which is why I was willing to cut it some slack. Note, I'm willing to cut it slack in both directions. Pulling off what this movie is trying to pull it off isn't easy as a writer. But if one side has to go, it's the movie side. Because without the movie side, this movie could still work. But without the adaptation side, it literally can't because that's the story they are using as a basis.

Again, this is irrelevant since it seems like it's going to fail as both. But that being said, have you actually SEEN the movie? I mean, I'm expecting it to suck myself, but I'm not going to just take someone's word in regards to how the plot is done. They might not even be retcons you know. They might just add to the backstory without changing what was there. That wouldn't be a retcon, just building on what was already done. SH3 did that too. SH3 added a lot to the cult's story. Those weren't retcons, though, just new backstory.


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