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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Positive reactions on Facebook & IMDb
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Apr 2009
Notes left: 1399
Every generation says 'society is degrading, this generation is the worst', and it's all such bullshit.

I'm sorry but if you want something super profound, you came to an adaptation of the wrong source material. We're talking about a story where a teenage girl walks through the same place James Sunderland did and does nothing more than make sarcastic remarks about it, who is more interested in picking up a walnut she found and looking for something to crack it with than trying to get out of there, whose father is killed and "I'll get you for this" and a soliloquy in a car is the extent of her grief, and who manages to abort a foetus through her mouth without causing serious internal damage. If SH2 or Downpour were adapted I'd expect a lot more, but not here.

Yuki wrote:
Off-topic, but I really wish the fanbase could get the hell over SH2. It's a fan darling. We get it. Let's let the series grow and evolve and try new things (even if they don't always work!) rather than continually try to replicate SH2.

So much this. Our obsession with SH2 (and 3) is what created Homecoming. But that's for another topic, which I'm probably going to make later... :)

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Positive reactions on Facebook & IMDb
     
         
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Missing since: 20 Jul 2004
Notes left: 1538
Last seen at: VA
^Eh, SH2's main story regarding James isn't very lengthy either... I mean, at the beginning we find out he got a letter, and then we run around the town for hours discovering little facts about the town and the other characters (eddie & angela), and then at the end of the game we're told what really went down with James and Mary. SH3 is pretty much the exact same thing, imo. It's just that Bassett changed things around (partly due to the first film) for the worse. We shouldn't have found out who Heather really was so early on in the film (the way we find out about who Heather really is could've been told in a much more interesting way), Harry should've received the same treatment he got in the game, and the change to Vincent really sucked.. Also, why even put Rose or Douglas in the film?

One reviewer nailed it when he said that Revelations does a very poor job of fleshing out characters. If you're going to change the characters, give them some substance, and make them interesting. I would've preferred Vincent from the game over what we got from MJB. Also, forget story, but some of the ideas that got put into the film were just awful (i'm especially referring to the mall birthday scene).


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Positive reactions on Facebook & IMDb

Missing since: 31 Dec 2009
Notes left: 143
Last seen at: Lebanon, Pennsylvania
DistantJ wrote:

Yuki wrote:
Off-topic, but I really wish the fanbase could get the hell over SH2. It's a fan darling. We get it. Let's let the series grow and evolve and try new things (even if they don't always work!) rather than continually try to replicate SH2.

So much this. Our obsession with SH2 (and 3) is what created Homecoming. But that's for another topic, which I'm probably going to make later... :)



SH2 is fawned over because it's the high-water mark for the series. Same way that RE4 is obsessed over by the Resident Evil fanbase, and FFVII is obsessed over by the Final Fantasy one (although I'd argue that REmake and many of the FFs are better than those entries). Konami needs to just not give a fuck and let the developers do their own thing rather than ape SH2. Otherwise it will never be topped.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Positive reactions on Facebook & IMDb
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
Skele wrote:
^Eh, SH2's main story regarding James isn't very lengthy either... I mean, at the beginning we find out he got a letter, and then we run around the town for hours discovering little facts about the town and the other characters (eddie & angela), and then at the end of the game we're told what really went down with James and Mary. SH3 is pretty much the exact same thing, imo. It's just that Bassett changed things around (partly due to the first film) for the worse. We shouldn't have found out who Heather really was so early on in the film (the way we find out about who Heather really is could've been told in a much more interesting way), Harry should've received the same treatment he got in the game, and the change to Vincent really sucked.. Also, why even put Rose or Douglas in the film?

One reviewer nailed it when he said that Revelations does a very poor job of fleshing out characters. If you're going to change the characters, give them some substance, and make them interesting. I would've preferred Vincent from the game over what we got from MJB. Also, forget story, but some of the ideas that got put into the film were just awful (i'm especially referring to the mall birthday scene).


Rose pretty much had to be in the film, not only because of the first movie's theme of mother as god but also to explain how on earth Sharon got out of the Fog World, since clearly she wouldn't know.

Also, why is everyone so hellbent on
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Harry needing to die? Him being kidnapped is still a great way to get her to Silent Hill, and they're still separated in the end of the movie.


As for Vincent, I don't understand why some people want him to be the same guy from the games, because he was fleshed out even worse than in Revelation. In the games his purpose was to fuck with Claudia and scare Heather; we don't actually know what he wants, what his motivations are, or much about him at all. In the movie
[Reveal] Spoiler:
We know he was a believer in the Order brainwashed by Claudia, sent out of Silent Hill to find the demon and he wanted to help--but then he met Heather and, though it was a REALLY FAST CHARACTER TRANSITION, decided he wanted to help her rather than hurt her. We get his motivation AND his background, whereas in the game we know nothing about him.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Positive reactions on Facebook & IMDb

Missing since: 31 Dec 2009
Notes left: 143
Last seen at: Lebanon, Pennsylvania
[Reveal] Spoiler:
In the games he wants to fuck with Claudia, in the film he just wants to fuck Heather.


I wasn't bothered by the changes made to his character. They just weren't executed well. Like pretty much everything else in the film.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: Positive reactions on Facebook & IMDb
     
         
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Missing since: 06 Nov 2011
Notes left: 401
Yuki wrote:
Also, why is everyone so hellbent on
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Harry needing to die? Him being kidnapped is still a great way to get her to Silent Hill, and they're still separated in the end of the movie.


Harry/Christopher's death wasn't required for Revelation, per say, but it sure would have added a lot more depth to Heather's character.

Yuki wrote:
As for Vincent, I don't understand why some people want him to be the same guy from the games, because he was fleshed out even worse than in Revelation. In the games his purpose was to fuck with Claudia and scare Heather; we don't actually know what he wants, what his motivations are, or much about him at all. In the movie
[Reveal] Spoiler:
We know he was a believer in the Order brainwashed by Claudia, sent out of Silent Hill to find the demon and he wanted to help--but then he met Heather and, though it was a REALLY FAST CHARACTER TRANSITION, decided he wanted to help her rather than hurt her. We get his motivation AND his background, whereas in the game we know nothing about him.


But isn't the lack of certain things in SH3-Vincent what makes him so memorable a character? We, technically, have almost the same amount of material to talk about with Revelation Vincent, but he's still a 2D bland-fucking-horndog who isn't very interesting at all to begin with.

And if you know "nothing about" Vincent in the games, you clearly need to play SH3 again. He is a manipulative and almost seemingly-wacko character who desires the prevention of God's "inconvenient" birth to continue to embezzle money from the Order. Hell, his colleague relationship with Claudia is faaaaaar more deep and intricate than Revelation's mother-son relationship (which wasn't very effective--what, we only get like one or two scenes with Vincent and Claudia together? Three if you count the hotel scene?)


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Positive reactions on Facebook & IMDb
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
teosoleil wrote:
But isn't the lack of certain things in SH3-Vincent what makes him so memorable a character? We, technically, have almost the same amount of material to talk about with Revelation Vincent, but he's still a 2D bland-fucking-horndog who isn't very interesting at all to begin with.

And if you know "nothing about" Vincent in the games, you clearly need to play SH3 again. He is a manipulative and almost seemingly-wacko character who desires the prevention of God's "inconvenient" birth to continue to embezzle money from the Order. Hell, his colleague relationship with Claudia is faaaaaar more deep and intricate than Revelation's mother-son relationship (which wasn't very effective--what, we only get like one or two scenes with Vincent and Claudia together? Three if you count the hotel scene?)


I still don't think we know much about Vincent. He's greedy and likes fucking with Claudia and Heather. That's it. We know nothing of where he came from, why he wants to screw with Claudia, or anything. Neither the Book of Lost Memories nor the Silent Hill wiki have much information at all, and I find him quite one-dimensional as a result of us not actually knowing anything about him. He seems to exist solely to fuck with Claudia and Heather and to tell Heather where she needs to go next.

Revelation's Vincent wasn't the best, but
[Reveal] Spoiler:
They at least tried to give him more depth, although it came across at first more of "OH SHE'S PRETTY" than "Wow, she's not actually a demon" as a result of poor pacing. However, we know more about his motivation and where he comes from in the film than we do in the games.

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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Positive reactions on Facebook & IMDb
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Apr 2009
Notes left: 1399
I was totally happy with this version of Vincent's obsessiveness and mood swings because he's a teenage boy. His conviction to one thing and then the other reminds me very much of Romeo in Romeo & Juliet, melodramatic, uncalled for, and very, very teenage. What I didn't like about Vincent was how he practically narrated the whole story like we couldn't follow. Seems like it was a response to the criticisms that the first film was too confusing, but it seems like overcompensation a little.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Positive reactions on Facebook & IMDb
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
DistantJ wrote:
I was totally happy with this version of Vincent's obsessiveness and mood swings because he's a teenage boy. His conviction to one thing and then the other reminds me very much of Romeo in Romeo & Juliet, melodramatic, uncalled for, and very, very teenage. What I didn't like about Vincent was how he practically narrated the whole story like we couldn't follow. Seems like it was a response to the criticisms that the first film was too confusing, but it seems like overcompensation a little.


I think his narrations were a little better than Dark Alessa's expositionfest at the end of the first movie, myself. Not by much, but...

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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Positive reactions on Facebook & IMDb
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Apr 2009
Notes left: 1399
I suppose it's better than it all being explained in one chunk I guess, yeah, I just bought it more that the person/demon who did the whole thing would know everything, want to tell everything and talk in that melodramatic way, whilst I just didn't buy it so much with Vincent I guess.

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Positive reactions on Facebook & IMDb
     
         
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Missing since: 20 Jul 2004
Notes left: 1538
Last seen at: VA
"Rose pretty much had to be in the film, not only because of the first movie's theme of mother as god but also to explain how on earth Sharon got out of the Fog World, since clearly she wouldn't know."

I know she had to be in the film (i even wanted her in it) but she was used very poorly. My point was that we could've been told about how Rose got her out of Silent Hill in a much better way. Instead, all we got was a comical in what was supposed to be an emotional scene between her and Harry, and then we never see her again. It would've been nice to see some kind of interaction between Rose and Heather.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Positive reactions on Facebook & IMDb
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
Skele wrote:
"Rose pretty much had to be in the film, not only because of the first movie's theme of mother as god but also to explain how on earth Sharon got out of the Fog World, since clearly she wouldn't know."

I know she had to be in the film (i even wanted her in it) but she was used very poorly. My point was that we could've been told about how Rose got her out of Silent Hill in a much better way. Instead, all we got was a comical in what was supposed to be an emotional scene between her and Harry, and then we never see her again. It would've been nice to see some kind of interaction between Rose and Heather.


Agreed. The scene wasn't acted very well, and the "my love" lines were awful.

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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Positive reactions on Facebook & IMDb
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Apr 2009
Notes left: 1399
Was a very weird scene. I liked it but it felt really unnatural.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Positive reactions on Facebook & IMDb
     
         
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Missing since: 22 Jun 2006
Notes left: 1924
Last seen at: Katz Street
I hated that scene, mainly due to how it was written and acted poorly. I honestly do not know how it turned out that way with two proven actors. But to pick on the "My love" line specifically; why? Who really thinks anyone would talk like that? Or atleast Rose, who never spoke in that way before. In the stories i'v written, i'v found natural dialogue easy to grasp as I kept writing (It seems easy, but alot of people have trouble with it for some reason). Hearing any character talk like that is as bad as breaking the fourth wall to me. It's my least favorite scene in the movie, though I know plenty may think other scenes were worse.

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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Positive reactions on Facebook & IMDb
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Apr 2009
Notes left: 1399
It was a little bit shakespearian and melodramatic, almost anime, but I like that in a film. It just didn't feel very natural in here. But I'm sorry, you can't compare stories "i'v" written to those of a professional screenwriter on his fourth major picture...

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Positive reactions on Facebook & IMDb
     
         
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Missing since: 03 Feb 2010
Notes left: 122
Last seen at: Tennessee
Dialogue is the hardest thing to do as a writer....As least it is for me....Just because something feels natural to you, doesn't mean its going to work for everything else....


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Positive reactions on Facebook & IMDb
     
         
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Missing since: 22 Jun 2006
Notes left: 1924
Last seen at: Katz Street
DistantJ wrote:
It was a little bit shakespearian and melodramatic, almost anime, but I like that in a film. It just didn't feel very natural in here. But I'm sorry, you can't compare stories "i'v" written to those of a professional screenwriter on his fourth major picture...

No, I can. Stuff like that shouldn't happen with a professional on his fourth film. I wasn't saying I was better, and honestly even if I was, being a professional wouldn't automatically mean I couldn't write something better than Bassett. I respect the man's work, but from what i'v seen it's not as if he is known for his writing.
But i'm am not someone who likes the shakespearian and melodramatic dialogue where it doesn't belong, and I definantly am not a fan of anime dialogue in most cases. So in a movie like this, or most any movie really, I won't like it. Maybe it's just me though.


Quote:
Dialogue is the hardest thing to do as a writer....As least it is for me....Just because something feels natural to you, doesn't mean its going to work for everything else....


I know it is, I mentioned that. But it's about the only thing I can do. My sentance structuring and limited vocabulary hinder me, so i'm definantly not trying to brag when I lack those elementary skills.
I was basically just trying to say, "If even I can do it, thrn why did he bomb in that scene?". But honestly, that's also one of the very few scenes that stuck out, so it could have been any number of things. Hell, he may have just done it for the hell of it.

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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Positive reactions on Facebook & IMDb
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Apr 2009
Notes left: 1399
I think he was trying to make it 'dreamlike'...

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Positive reactions on Facebook & IMDb
     
         
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Missing since: 22 Jun 2006
Notes left: 1924
Last seen at: Katz Street
DistantJ wrote:
I think he was trying to make it 'dreamlike'...

That's very possible and probobly should have been obvious to me. :lol: I guess it does work in that sense..somewhat. It's like you said yourself though, it still feels unnatural. I bet if the acting had been better during that scene, it may have played out just a bit better.

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Positive reactions on Facebook & IMDb
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Oct 2011
Notes left: 515
Last seen at: Phoenix
Silent Fantasy wrote:
DistantJ wrote:
I think he was trying to make it 'dreamlike'...


But i'm am not someone who likes the shakespearian and melodramatic dialogue where it doesn't belong, and I definantly am not a fan of anime dialogue in most cases. So in a movie like this, or most any movie really, I won't like it. Maybe it's just me though.


That's very possible and probobly should have been obvious to me. :lol: I guess it does work in that sense..somewhat. It's like you said yourself though, it still feels unnatural. I bet if the acting had been better during that scene, it may have played out just a bit better.


Shakespeare actually made fun of melodrama in a lot of his plays. Usually the character who uses the most sappy language ends up as the fool.

But here this scene was a pure man talking to his ghost wife, (Milton is a more appropriate reference). It cannot be a realistic down to earth conversation.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
"Rose, When will you be home?"

"Yeah ya know I'm still trying to get time off from the Silent so like who knows? Remember Heather's birthday is coming up so get her a new jumpsuit for the cold weather, and remind her to keep her cell phone charged. Oh can you please fix the front door? The fogworld drafts keep blowing it open and we can't afford to buy new furniture every time you have to move from the cult."


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