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Why BoM WON'T kill the series
http://silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=24709
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Author:  Augophthalmoses [ 07 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Why BoM WON'T kill the series

Yeah, I've never understood why people throw the mother of all temper tantrums about PH appearing outside of SH2, but nobody ever says a word about dogs being used outside of SH1 and nurses appearing in the first three TS games.

The only real defense I see is "oh, but each one looks a little different so that means they're completely different monsters!"

Say what you want, but they're still dogs and nurses for heaven's sake. TS had no problems reusing certain monsters in their games so why is PH suddenly so special. Nothing in SH2 definitively says he can't be manifested by anybody but James anyway.

And whatever intention the SH2 developers had with PH doesn't matter anymore because they aren't working on the series any longer. They aren't responsible for canon past their games.

Author:  Mephisto [ 07 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Why BoM WON'T kill the series

Quote:
but nobody ever says a word about dogs being used outside of SH1 and nurses appearing in the first three TS games.

This forum does. It's well known, for some, that the Otherworld "recycles" every creature and "shape" them.

It's just that some persons have a strange fixation with RPT. They think he should be untouchable or something for strange reasons that I can't explain...

Hell, the damn creature was in a racing game for fuck's sake. Counter this, I dare you.

Author:  AuraTwilight [ 07 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Why BoM WON'T kill the series

That racing game was totally canon, by the way.

Author:  Yuki [ 07 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Why BoM WON'T kill the series

I think it's probably because Pyramid Head is so iconic and was so incredibly frightening all the time. It doesn't make those people less wrong, but it at least offers an explanation.

Author:  Adam_WF [ 08 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Why BoM WON'T kill the series

I mean, the SH movie wasn't by any stretch perfect, but Phead was incredible in it. I don't recall anyone in the theater leaping up to point at the screen and shout, "Wait a minute! Where's James Sunderland??" If the character works well in another game, film, comic, whatever - use him.

It's nice to hear that this isn't necessarily a quibble people are obsessed with on this particular forum. :)

Author:  AuraTwilight [ 08 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Why BoM WON'T kill the series

Indeed. That being said, his inclusion in places like Homecoming were still god-awful decisions since he was never utilized in any meaningful or significant way. His use in the Arcade game is more justified.

Author:  VIVIsect [ 08 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Why BoM WON'T kill the series

According to Takayoshi Sato:

"Silent Hill used to be the place of execution, away from cities. That was secret and sacred place. Heinous criminals are transferred to that place and get executed. That place existed only for that reason. Thus all village people are executioners or family of executioners. Executioners needed to wear a mask at the event so they do not directly witness their spear when it was piercing flesh. Time have past, only memory of execution lingered, got enhanced and formed the roaming illusion of Silent Hill. Pyramid head is distorted memory of the executioners."

This lingering "memory" is not a construct of James. It predates even the actual town of Silent Hill itself. But the physical manifestation of this "distorted memory" that we see in Silent Hill 2 (Pyramid Head), is. This "memory" is simply an energy hanging around within the Otherworld. James is able to tap into this energy and project it as a physical entity for the sole purpose of fulfilling his desire for punishment. The fact that Pyramid Head is only as powerful as James allows it to be, is a good indication that James is in control of the flow of energy. After Pyramid Head has served its purpose, James hits the switch and cuts off the power.

This energy is ever-present in Silent Hill, and can presumably be tapped into by anyone. But I think that the physical characteristics, the exact purpose/goal, and even the strength of the manifestation depends solely on whoever is actually doing the projecting.

I wouldn't mind seeing other variations of "Pyramid Head" in other games, but I think he deserves more than being typecast as just an asshole with a rusty traffic cone on his head who occasionally pops up to shank people for being naughty.

Author:  AuraTwilight [ 08 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Why BoM WON'T kill the series

Everything after the italics seems like something you completely bullshitted out of nowhere, with no basis in the actual quote.

Author:  VIVIsect [ 08 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Why BoM WON'T kill the series

My comment is based on my interpretation of Takayoshi Sato's statement and the game. I don't pretend that it's anything more than my interpretation, pulled directly out of my own ass. So, yeah...

For the sake of clarifying myself a bit - Based on Takayoshi Sato's statement, the "distorted memory" is not exclusive to James. Based on my interpretation of the game, the SH2 manifestation of the "distorted memory" (as Pyramid Head) is exclusive to James.

Author:  AuraTwilight [ 08 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Why BoM WON'T kill the series

I just don't personally really see that quote being indicative of anything under than the standard interpretation. If Pyramid Head is James' guilt and self-destructive emotions channeled through the modified visage of a historical painting of executioners, than it's a "distorted memory" by definition since it's a fuckton of second-hand symbolism and visual data re-appropriated for his own needs and desires.

Author:  Augophthalmoses [ 08 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Why BoM WON'T kill the series

Well, since Book of Memories is somewhat of a Greatest Hits compilation of all the SH monsters, I don't really have a problem with him reappearing given the game's premise.

But yeah, I wouldn't really want to see PH in another SH game not because of "it's SH2! You can't do that!" but simply because it get old.

I'll give Downpour credit for moving past PH and trying to design a unique imposing figure, but he was still derivative. I wasn't particularly fond of Downpour's monsters outside of the Screamers, Dolls, and Weeping Bats. But I thank it a shitload of times for not having any nurses or have us exploring a hospital once again.

Author:  AuraTwilight [ 08 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Why BoM WON'T kill the series

The Bogeyman was better than the Butcher, atleast. Now THAT was a derivative fucking monster.

Author:  Augophthalmoses [ 08 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Why BoM WON'T kill the series

AuraTwilight wrote:
The Bogeyman was better than the Butcher, atleast. Now THAT was a derivative fucking monster.
True that.

Author:  clips [ 10 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Why BoM WON'T kill the series

What's so funny is that people seem to think that because i don't want to see certain elements of BOM in the main series, that i'm some raging SH fan. That's not the case at all...people see what they want to see and read what they want to read and come to their own laughable conclusions...

I still feel PH shouldn't be seen outside of SH2....it works better for the storyline and gives each character and storyline it's own theme and appeal...if certain folks feel otherwise then so be it. It's also painfully pathetic to also have to say.."gee guys these are just opinions"

But if your opinions are not viewed favorably by the majority you are somehow frowned upon...i already stated that i don't have an issue with BOM, but i did have issues with certain gameplay mechanics coming over to the main series IF it were to ever happen, but somehow saying that is the coming of the apocolypse and is being moronic.

I could come back and say that the folks that have no problem seeing elements of BOM coming into the main series are idiotic and mindless sheep, because they will accept anything that konami shoves up their ass, but i know better than to do that, because we are all just expressing our "opinions", tho i think some people seem to think some opinions hold heavier weight than others...

Author:  The Adversary [ 10 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Why BoM WON'T kill the series

>Everything after the italics seems like something you completely bullshitted out of nowhere, with no basis in the actual quote.<
It actually makes perfect sense in the context of the r.p.t.

I'm always reminded of a quote I heard from an old high school history teacher. Every new town built two things: a prison and a cemetery. Everyone sins, and everyone dies.

Author:  SPRINGS02 [ 10 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Why BoM WON'T kill the series

Yeah i definitely don't see it killing the series, that's ridiculous.

I do, however, see it being a shitty game.

Author:  Typographenia [ 10 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Why BoM WON'T kill the series

SPRINGS02 wrote:
I do, however, see it being a shitty game.

I find your lack of faith in WayForward disturbing.

Author:  Hydra666 [ 13 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Why BoM WON'T kill the series

SPRINGS02 wrote:
Yeah i definitely don't see it killing the series, that's ridiculous.

I do, however, see it being a shitty game.


I agree

My main concern towards BOM is not the camera or the monsters. The problem is that it's some kind of baldur's gate-like RPG game instead of a survival horror game. The characters have magical abilities, they beat the crap out of the monsters.

The game could have been good if it was horror-oriented, with weak characters, few ammo, etc.. because the whole gameplay and concept looks fun but they ruined it.

Author:  DirtyNorris [ 13 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Why BoM WON'T kill the series

Quote:
My main concern towards BOM is not the camera or the monsters. The problem is that it's some kind of baldur's gate-like RPG game instead of a survival horror game. The characters have magical abilities, they beat the crap out of the monsters.


Regarding the "magical abilities", the director of BOM said over on Silent Hill Community:
Quote:
Guys, calm down. You're reacting to 1-second of footage in a clip that's almost a year old now.

BoM isn't a game about super powers. When you begin reading and seeing more on the game (hopefully soon) it will make a lot more sense.


So...yeah. We'll just have to wait and see. Oh, and here's the link if you want it: http://silenthillcommunity.com/viewtopi ... 0&start=40

Quote:
The game could have been good if it was horror-oriented, with weak characters, few ammo, etc.. because the whole gameplay and concept looks fun but they ruined it.


If they were aiming to make a survival horror game in the first place, all of that would be true. They never were, so the game can only be judged on whether it succeeds at the goals it set itself or not. The central concept of a game doesn't decide whether it's good or not, it's the execution.

Author:  Yuki [ 13 May 2012 ]
Post subject:  Re: Why BoM WON'T kill the series

Also, Adam from WayForward has remarked it's still horror-themed (and insinuated they're trying to make it scary).

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