New Silent Hill? Hideo Kojima and Guillermo Del Toro project

[Kenji]

I suggested in another thread, as something that could (but doesn't necessarily have to) go hand-in-hand with a first-person view, more individualistic monsters that are few in number, spawn randomly (while being few in number), have the ability to range throughout the area as their "caprice" would have it, be incredibly powerful and hard to kill, but not aggressive to the point that escape or hiding is impossible or impractical.

Therefore, the encounters are meaningful, there's no automatic loss of tension if you do manage to kill the two or three of them in a particular map (more could always show up, though they're not guaranteed to), and there's a consistent threat of real harm in addition to the strangeness of the landscape.

I'd also suggest the assumption that we need "bosses" should be reconsidered.

https://www.change.org/petitions/hideo- ... lent-hills

I most certainly don't want Yamaoka back. He made it plain as day, his last few outings, that he doesn't want any part of Silent Hill. If he doesn't wanna be part of it, and won't put in the effort, then why should anyone try and force him? Not only does it just make everyone miserable, but this horrid little rut, obsessing over having sounds "like Yamaoka," monsters "like Ito," etc., is why the series has gotten so damn boring in the first place.

[Little Wise Owl]

Pretty much. The typicail enemy should feel more like an animal encounter. You aren't sparring. You aren't trying to find a pattern. You either kill or risk being killed. Let it be brutal as if lashing out when you fight.

Frankly, rather than focusing on combat. I'd rather the focus be on stealth and hiding or other ticks to keep enemies at bay (holy candles, saints medallions).

The only exceptions of course can be boss fights or the 'Pyramid Head' creature encounter which might act more intelligently. Or perhaps the character is another human like you (Eddie). Knowing Kojima's involved, it'll be intriguing to see what boss fights he comes up with.

This echos everything I was gonna say.

I want the monsters to be as unpredictable as possible, and super lethal (insta kill attacks for the bigger and badder enemies, and maybe a 2-3 hits on you to kill for more normal enemies). I want stealth in this more than anything too, because it would be freaking horrible trying to sneak through an area with creatures like these roaming around.





And as someone else said, I want there to be a pretty bad penalty for dieing. I'm not sure what the penalty should be though. Not respawing at a much earlier save or something like that. That would just get annoying. Maybe make your health bar less and less Dark Souls style, and similar punishments. Also, make the death scenes super brutal, RE4 style. I want to be horrified by what the creatures do to my character enough to never want to see that again.

I want... like the absolute opposite of this. lol Other than the enemies to be animal-like. Mindless beast type thing.

I'm not a fan of excessive gore or brutal kills. I think we've seen way too much of that in other horror games. I don't think the brutality of the monsters is what made them scary in the earlier games. It was just their sheer grotesque appearances coupled with the ways they moves and the sounds they made... Numb Bodies were weak and stupid but the sounds they made and the way they looked was unnerving and I hated being in the same room as them.

[Yuki]

Not only does it just make everyone miserable, but this horrid little rut, obsessing over having sounds "like Yamaoka," monsters "like Ito," etc., is why the series has gotten so damn boring in the first place.

My thoughts exactly. People don't want a new Silent Hill game, they want to relive things from the past with a shiny new coat of paint. It's reductive--other series get to change things up (look at Final Fantasy!), but this series is restricted by the rabid fans who refuse to embrace even an attempt at change to keep the horror fresh.

Plus, it makes me feel like they're borderline.. I don't know, fetishizing the original creative team? It's not going to surprise me to start seeing people praising this game just for going back to Japanese development in part.

[Mephisto]

I want the monsters to be as unpredictable as possible, and super lethal (insta kill attacks for the bigger and badder enemies, and maybe a 2-3 hits on you to kill for more normal enemies). I want stealth in this more than anything too, because it would be freaking horrible trying to sneak through an area with creatures like these roaming around.

No. Sorry but this is just stupid.
Do you want a fun game or a "who's going to break the disk first due to unbearable frustration" contest?

Like jdnation said, monsters with an animal behaviour, bestial and deadly, is very welcome. But INSTA KILLS from them? Get out.

EDIT: I'm not calling you stupid (before a misunderstanding appear). I think your post was an interesting read. Apart from that line. Insta kills would be damn annoying. Especially if you're in say, a narrow corridor or something, with 3 big bad dudes and no way to run from them.

[Arachnid1]

Pretty much. The typicail enemy should feel more like an animal encounter. You aren't sparring. You aren't trying to find a pattern. You either kill or risk being killed. Let it be brutal as if lashing out when you fight.

Frankly, rather than focusing on combat. I'd rather the focus be on stealth and hiding or other ticks to keep enemies at bay (holy candles, saints medallions).

The only exceptions of course can be boss fights or the 'Pyramid Head' creature encounter which might act more intelligently. Or perhaps the character is another human like you (Eddie). Knowing Kojima's involved, it'll be intriguing to see what boss fights he comes up with.

This echos everything I was gonna say.

I want the monsters to be as unpredictable as possible, and super lethal (insta kill attacks for the bigger and badder enemies, and maybe a 2-3 hits on you to kill for more normal enemies). I want stealth in this more than anything too, because it would be freaking horrible trying to sneak through an area with creatures like these roaming around.





And as someone else said, I want there to be a pretty bad penalty for dieing. I'm not sure what the penalty should be though. Not respawing at a much earlier save or something like that. That would just get annoying. Maybe make your health bar less and less Dark Souls style, and similar punishments. Also, make the death scenes super brutal, RE4 style. I want to be horrified by what the creatures do to my character enough to never want to see that again.

I want... like the absolute opposite of this. lol Other than the enemies to be animal-like. Mindless beast type thing.

I'm not a fan of excessive gore or brutal kills. I think we've seen way too much of that in other horror games. I don't think the brutality of the monsters is what made them scary in the earlier games. It was just their sheer grotesque appearances coupled with the ways they moves and the sounds they made... Numb Bodies were weak and stupid but the sounds they made and the way they looked was unnerving and I hated being in the same room as them.

The problem with the monsters in the older games is that they lost their fear factor after a while. If you get killed, you character just grunts and falls over. None of them were all that powerful either, and you could steam roll through them if you want. They never feel like a legitimate threat after the first encounter.

The chainsaw maniacs in RE4 are nowhere near as grotesque as the monsters in Silent Hill, yet they put the fear of god in me every time. It always made my heart skip a beat when they came up right beside me and barely missed their swing, and it forced my heart into my mouth to watch as they sawed through Leons neck whenever they caught me. If I saw them, I ran in the other direction and put as much distance between us as I could. I always dreaded the moments where they showed up. I want to feel that way with Silent Hill instead of not having a care in the world because I can just sprint right past them, and at worst I'll get caught on a corner and lose a bit of health.

I want the monsters to be as unpredictable as possible, and super lethal (insta kill attacks for the bigger and badder enemies, and maybe a 2-3 hits on you to kill for more normal enemies). I want stealth in this more than anything too, because it would be freaking horrible trying to sneak through an area with creatures like these roaming around.

No. Sorry but this is just stupid.
Do you want a fun game or a "who's going to break the disk first due to unbearable frustration" contest?

Like jdnation said, monsters with an animal behaviour, bestial and deadly, is very welcome. But INSTA KILLS from them? Get out.

I disagree. If there's little risk, it wont be very scary to encounter something. Just compensate by making the enemies slower, and only one or two in each area. Not a ton of encounters, and definitely not enough to be swarmed. At that point, if you die, it's your fault for not playing smart.

The clickers in Last of Us did this. Salvador from RE4 did this. Both remained terrifying the entire game, unlike the Lying figure. Both ended up critically acclaimed titles, so it definitely wasn't enough to break the disk in half. I want the same horror atmosphere SH has always had, but the enemies need to be a great deal more terrifying and lethal.

EDIT: I'm not calling you stupid (before a misunderstanding appear). I think your post was an interesting read. Apart from that line. Insta kills would be damn annoying. Especially if you're in say, a narrow corridor or something, with 3 big bad dudes and no way to run from them.

Your fine, I got your meaning. I actually envisioned this game to be somewhat open areas to stealth around kind of like Last of Us. I didn't think about the enclosed claustrophobic areas where insta-kill is inevitable, so that's a very valid point.

[Mephisto]

^ If the developers could offer a work-around from the big bad enemies then I embrace the idea of insta-kills. Like mandatory stealth parts (but not too long). And, if an enemy manages to find you, you can still do something to run away/fight back. That would make things less frustrating and more interesting.

To make the stealth parts *even* better, they should drop that infamous hive-mind behaviour. If an enemy sees you and another enemy is near the one that just saw you then that's okay. It's your own fault that everyone is after you since the enemies were able to communicate with each other. But when a SINGLE enemy sees you and EVERYONE in the next building is also able to see you... Argh, that's just stupid...

[Arachnid1]

^ If the developers could offer a work-around from the big bad enemies then I embrace the idea of insta-kills. Like mandatory stealth parts (but not too long). And, if an enemy manages to find you, you can still do something to run away/fight back. That would make things less frustrating and more interesting.

To make the stealth parts *even* better, they should drop that infamous hive-mind behaviour. If an enemy sees you and another enemy is near the one that just saw you then that's okay. It's your own fault that everyone is after you since the enemies were able to communicate with each other. But when a SINGLE enemy sees you and EVERYONE in the next building is also able to see you... Argh, that's just stupid...

Yes! That bothered the hell out of me in Last of Us, and MGS Ground Zeroes. They could have at least made the soldier call it in on his radio before the entire base alerted. Hive mind enemies are horrible.

Silent Hill doesn't really have enemies swarm you though, luckily (well, except for recent installments).

I'm mostly just trying to think of ways the series will evolve. Its not going to be the same as SH 1-3 no matter how much purists want it to be (it'll have a similar core, because Kojima is a developer who cares about his fans and their input/wants, but it will be bigger and better). Metal Gear and RE remained big because they evolved with the times (which is good in MGSs case, not so much in REs). I guarantee you Kojima will do something similar with SH, and I welcome it. I want this series to stay relevant for decades to come, and I want it to be critically acclaimed and on everyone's love list like Last of Us has recently. I want SH to be THE horror game. I cant wait to see what it evolves into.

[Tillerman]

The most vital thing for enemy design is a feeling of danger. Part of this comes from the visceral impact: visual design and sound design. But those things aren't enough, because no matter how scary a monster looks, you get used to it after awhile. It has to be backed up by game mechanics

You want the player to always "respect" the monsters. In order to do this, they have to have some way to threaten the player. Not the character, but you, the actual player. For this, game mechanics are very important. There has to be some sort of real threat from the monster in the form of punishment. Unfortunately there really aren't any ways to punish the player that aren't potentially frustrating... therefore, you have to be very careful about game balance.

In my opinion, monsters in a horror game should rarely be "challenging." What you're looking for in a horror game isn't necessarily challenge. It's *fear.* So ideally, you want enemies that are not so challenging, but punishing if you do die to them. You should be afraid to die, but it should rarely happen *as long as you are careful.* But the game should be designed in such a way that if you aren't careful, you'll be punished swiftly. A good example are enemies that use slow and highly telegraphed attacks that are easy to dodge, but very damaging if you get hit. IMO Silent Hill should have a lot of enemies with those kinds of attacks.

But you also have to be unpredictable, and keep the player on their toes. So, some tough to kill and potentially very dangerous enemies are a good idea too, in moderation. It would be great of they were randomized too, so you never knew where to expect them. You could maybe take them out with a lot of skill, but because of the high threat of punishment, you'd WANT to avoid them, either by stealth or by running. And the game should encourage you to do so.

On the other hand, there should be some enemies that are hard to stealth past, but easy to run from. And some enemies that are hard to run from, but easy to stealth past. Don't let the player take just one approach to all enemies, force them out of their comfort zone. And remember that enemies that are hard to avoid or have fast attacks shouldn't do too much damage.

So what we really want are a variety of enemies, that require different approaches. There is no single approach that fits best. Careful, thoughtful enemy design is what Silent Hill needs. I'm not saying it should play like Dark Souls, but it should take cues from Dark Souls on how to design enemies well.

[tbonesays]

^ If the developers could offer a work-around from the big bad enemies then I embrace the idea of insta-kills. Like mandatory stealth parts (but not too long). And, if an enemy manages to find you, you can still do something to run away/fight back. That would make things less frustrating and more interesting.

To make the stealth parts *even* better, they should drop that infamous hive-mind behaviour. If an enemy sees you and another enemy is near the one that just saw you then that's okay. It's your own fault that everyone is after you since the enemies were able to communicate with each other. But when a SINGLE enemy sees you and EVERYONE in the next building is also able to see you... Argh, that's just stupid...

Indeed hive monsters are for action and shooters etc, using that loses the horror feel.

[Kenji]

Plus, it makes me feel like they're borderline.. I don't know, fetishizing the original creative team? It's not going to surprise me to start seeing people praising this game just for going back to Japanese development in part.

If you don't mind, I'd like to springboard off this a little.

I might've come off rather harsh about Yamaoka phoning it in for as many as four games. We should've seen it coming: Starting with SH3, every soundtrack he produced has had more vocal songs, more rock tracks, more beats. Is it any wonder he now hangs with Grasshopper Manufacture? And, y'know what? His tracks in No More Heroes 2 were badass!

Like, you can feel the enthusiasm of a composer doing something he wants to do, rather than just doing what he has to do.

Or, going back to that petition. That's the petition of an SH2 fan, someone who thinks that was the pinnacle of the series. Me, I'm an SH1 fan, first and foremost, so my own little petition would have Toyama at the top. But, hey, he's made three other horror games, and I thought they were awesome (more than that, the Siren series has stellar sound design, so it's not like I missed Yamaoka there, or anything). And now he's producing antigrav platformers and making me wish I had a Vita, 'cuz Kat's so damn fine.

What would I gain, if I were to somehow grab him from Gravity Rush 2 and force him by buyout to work on a Silent Hill game when he may feel that he's said all he can say on the subject. Yeah, the customer rules, but there's almost something ethical about this.

Sometimes, we just gotta listen to John and Paul and let it be.

[Tillerman]

I might've come off rather harsh about Yamaoka phoning it in for as many as four games. We should've seen it coming: Starting with SH3, every soundtrack he produced has had more vocal songs, more rock tracks, more beats. Is it any wonder he now hangs with Grasshopper Manufacture? And, y'know what? His tracks in No More Heroes 2 were badass!

I really liked his work in Lollipop Chainsaw too. He can still do great work when he feels like it. Also, while his work in Homecoming and Origins was weak, I thought his soundtrack in Shattered Memories was very underrated. It was the best part of that game, for me. I'm hoping that Akira does come back, and that this project is exciting enough to get his creative energies flowing again, because when he's on he's amazing.

And now he's producing antigrav platformers and making me wish I had a Vita, 'cuz Kat's so damn fine.

I hear you! Gravity Rush is an amazing game. It would be pretty amazing if Toyama were to come back, although it seems like he's pretty busy making other amazing games right now.

[Vestu]

The camera angles will probably be like this: 1st person inside buildings etc. and 3rd person in most outside areas. That would be logical and it would make the gameplay smooth and varying. It would also add to the atmosphere when you enter a new building in all its corridor-y scariness after roaming around the town in 3rd person view.

On the topic of combat and monsters. I feel there should be fewer monster than there have been in most Silent Hill games. I think most of you would agree, that repetition isn't exactly doing any favors in terms of scariness of a monster.

In my worst nightmares, there is one, single, scary-as-heck being in the building with you. You know (or have eerie hints, that) it's there, but you don't know where exactly and when will you encounter it. One good example is in Project Zero 2 when a girl ghost awakens in a big mansion where you're currently solving some puzzle.

In essence, I think no combat mechanics will make monsters that scary if you face them over and over again. At that point it begins to not matter if you can kill them or not.

[Tillerman]

The camera angles will probably be like this: 1st person inside buildings etc. and 3rd person in most outside areas. That would be logical and it would make the gameplay smooth and varying. It would also add to the atmosphere when you enter a new building in all its corridor-y scariness after roaming around the town in 3rd person view.

I don't know how I feel about that. The majority of Silent Hill gameplay tends to take place indoors, and I'm not sure I want the majority of gameplay to be in the 1st person. That's too much. I hope they find a better way to split it up.

In essence, I think no combat mechanics will make monsters that scary if you face them over and over again. At that point it begins to not matter if you can kill them or not.

Having just one monster leads to it's own frustrations, though. I think a better idea is a compromise between those two ideas. Some monsters should be more common, and some monsters should be more rare. It's true enough that the common monsters will cease to be scary after awhile, but giving the player a variety of things to deal with is ultimately the best solution. Variety is very important in horror.

[Mephisto]

^ Just like the Siam in Homecoming. You met only 5 of them beasts. And the first one acted as a boss when you think about it.

Yes, that's a nice idea. Some common monsters and others that are rare to meet.

[DistantJ]

A crazy thought, guys, since Del Toro is heavily involved here, and Konami are apparently finally taking rebooting Silent Hill seriously... Perhaps we'll get to see Del Toro direct the 3rd movie?? That would be super cool.

I would imagine it would have to be third person no? I can't imagine how terrible the melee would be in a first person, and Silent Hill is pretty big on melee.

Ever play Condemned: Criminal Origins??

[Leo Ho Tep]

I will never understand people making petitions because they want this or that in a game or a movie. It's like studio execs

There is a new innredible team on board. Let tehm do their own thing. Trust them. You may not like what they do, but at least, it will be their project, and the more personal it is to them, the better it can be.

And yes, I played condemned, and it was interesting. It was moody to say the least.

[Skele]

When I say improved gameplay/combat, I just mean a more realistic and responsive gameplay experience. This is definitely possible in SH, without making the game feel too action oriented. They don't have to make the protagonist a badass like Booker DeWitt, but if we get a take turns approach to combat again, I'm not going to be happy.

[jdnation]

I kind of hope Kojima includes a camera item in the game so we can take pictures... Then again... the Share button on PS4 pretty much serves that pupose...

[KiramidHead]

I kind of hope Kojima includes a camera item in the game so we can take pictures... Then again... the Share button on PS4 pretty much serves that pupose...

Would we still be able to find Kojima's hidden ghost face in the game?

[Kenji]

In commemoration for this being a Silent Hill game, that ghost face will have an expression of absolute terror: