Kojima: "I want gamers to shit their pants"

[NanayaShiki]

I wouldn't call the crying in the bathroom sounds or glass breaking jump scares... The first air screamer and locker cat? Sure. Definitely. But really, there weren't that many in any of the games.

They're all examples of sudden, scary noises designed to make you jump. That's literally all they're there for.

I think some people equate "jump scare" with "cheap scare" (or, as seems to be the case with you, things actually appearing), and I don't agree at all. I love a good jump scare.

The first game isn't the only one that has a fair share of jump scares, either. Those who play the second game more than once probably have a tendency to get nervous around parked cars, bathroom stall doors and hospital rooftops. The third game has an entire haunted mansion full of them. And they very likely made you load your Depends the first time you played them. Jump scares aren't a bad thing!

Unless they're pop tarts, in which case they are simply glorious.

I don't really agree with a lot of the things you are calling jump scares. The sound of glass breaking or baby crying in the first game aren't jump scares in my eyes. They're just noises that start happening. They don't seem designed to make you "jump" so much creep you out. If those two things constitute as jump scares then so do literally any sound ever. Getting a codec call in Metal Gear Solid is a sudden noise that you might not have been expecting to happen, but it's not a "jump scare".

Likewise in Silent Hill 2, Pyramid Head on the rooftop isn't a jump scare. James turns around and sees him there. It's sudden and maybe even startling, but it's not there to make the player jump in fear and it doesn't just jump out at you. Maybe the term is too loosely defined to pin down what a jump scare needs to have in order to be a jump scare, but I don't think just anything happening that you weren't expecting should count. It's that element of something loud and suddenly in your face that's a jump scare. Like it being really silent and suddenly there's a creepy ghost lady face grabbing you. It's that change from quiet and calm to suddenly having scary imagery and/or loud noises shoved in your face. THAT'S a jump scare.

The original games had some of them too, sure, especially Silent Hill 3. But they were very few and far between. In my opinion, all jump scares ARE cheap. That doesn't mean there is no merit to them, though. Just because it's cheap doesn't mean it's not effective. They just have to earn it first and not abuse them.

[Tillerman]

To be honest, I wonder what Del Toro will be doing on this project. I like him as a filmmaker, but I don't think any of his movies are particularly scary. He's more of a fantasy horror guy who makes unsettling creatures. He's a decent writer, and I'm wondering if that will be his role.

[Skele]

To be honest, I wonder what Del Toro will be doing on this project. I like him as a filmmaker, but I don't think any of his movies are particularly scary. He's more of a fantasy horror guy who makes unsettling creatures. He's a decent writer, and I'm wondering if that will be his role.

The only film of his I actually found scary was Mama. It wasn't shit my pants scary, but I did get pretty creeped out a few times, and jumped on more than one occasion.

[Bladex454]

He does have a way with words! LOL...I've never played a single MGS game, but there is (technically) a long history between Silent Hill and MGS - demo anyone?

Actually, dare I say that quote has me just a touch concerned. It rather implies that he wants to fill the game with a lot of jumpscares"

it does? Thats some serious reading between the lines there.....I would not infer jumpscares from 'want people to sh&^ themselves'

From what I've heard Kojima is a master story teller, so I'd think he would fill it with implications. I just hope he keeps the storyline intact and gives it a chance to recover.

[DistantJ]

Actually, dare I say that quote has me just a touch concerned. It rather implies that he wants to fill the game with a lot of jumpscares. Silent Hill is terrifying because of the long sense of dread, being perpetuated by music, environment and creatures. You create your own fear. Static from a radio rising as creatures start to come near, as opposed to loud noises and creatures appearing in front of you. The slow rise of music as it turns from unsettling ambience into industrial drumming, never quite making you jump but always making you fear the worst.

A lot of the time the game is scary because you think something will happen when it never actually does. Though of course this is just my interpretation of the quote. I could be wrong and he means to do this exact thing.

You need to play the demo, it does exactly that. P.T. had me absolutely terrified before the 'woman' even showed up, and once you've had her jump at you, those bells indicating she's near give you the most horrible sense of foreboding. I still have trouble playing it because I'm so scared, and my girlfriend is kinda blown away because I'm pretty much never scared by films or games.

You do have to remember though that enough buildup without payoff just causes you to stop being scared because you know nothing is coming, You do need the occasional jumps and shocks (Pyramid Head showing up periodically in SH2, for example) otherwise you don't get the dread.

What I'm saying is, the 'no jump scares' rule is a silly one, because you need something to actually dread, otherwise it's 'how eerie can I make this empty corridor/how weird can I make these enemies?'. See Shattered Memories for an example of that.

People need to stop with the "no jump scares in Silent Hill" bull. The first game even had the freaking cat jumping out trope.

[ww_andi]

The teaser had plenty of dread and foreboding. I agree that jump scares are needed. However you need terrifying monsters that make you dread going near them.

The enemy in the teaser was awesome and reminded me a bit of a ghost from silent hill 4. This enemy was better imo because she was a little more unnerving and threatening whenever you saw her. One thing that got me was how long her legs were.

I know it is stated at the end that it does not reflect the new game, but if this is any indication of how scary it will be then i am excited.

[KingCrimson]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the biggest horror element missing from the Silent Hill series since part 3 has been total darkness. The first three games all had parts where nothing was really visible outside the cone of light provided by the torch. You couldn't see the wall on the other side of a room, so your brain wasn't sure if it went on for miles or ended just ahead; this undercurrent of insecurity played a big role, even in outdoor areas. The P.T. looks genuinely scary, but I'm hoping the final game doesn't have those soft, inviting streetlamps along the roads of Silent Hill that we've seen in some screenshots. Hopefully Del Toro's directing expertise will lend some insight, and the Japanese dev team will have the sensibility to realize that the most terrifying thing is the unknown. "Silence is also a sound."

That said, I totally agree with DistantJ about jump scares. For suspense to work, there needs to be the assumption that something horrible can happen at any moment. Jump scares early in the game help establish the mood, but overdoing it makes them predictable (a la Dead Space).

[NanayaShiki]

I think it's wrong to dismiss jump scares altogether as they can certainly help when done right and in small doses, but I certainly don't think they're NEEDED for the atmosphere to work. It's definitely possible to build tension and scare people without jumping out and screaming at them. The "horror" moments that stick out in my mind in the first few SH games were when you'd see creepy and impossible shit in the Otherworld. Those "what is THAT" moments that freak you out but also really interest you. Plus you've got the natural dread of being in a hostile and visually disturbing environment.

Hell, the old games used the opposite of jump scares for the stuff that's actually harmful. The radio let you know when enemies are near before they can actually do any harm to you. The tension then comes from the feeling of "what is it and where is it". Comparing that to having you walk down a hallway and then SOMETHING IS IN YOUR FACE SCREAMING AT YOU AHHHHH.

Like I said, a few good jump scares scattered about are fine and, yeah, they can even help set the tone. But I strongly disagree that they are needed or that the game would somehow be less effective if they decided not to use and.... whoa, I just got the strongest sense of deja vu while writing that last sentence. I think I've said this exact same thing about this exact same topic here before. Hm.

[Matt S]

Personally Kojima and co has alread proven (to this fan) that they know how to scare people, based on the PT demo

Supposedly, Kojima confirmed the game will be 3rd person. Trying to get confirmation of the source, so until then...grain of salt

[ShadowBaby]

Just watched the new teaser. I admit I am intrigued.

Is it just me or does the town look more like Downpour?

Anyway, the graphics look pretty amazing. Of course, what matters most is the story. I'm betting del Toro was involved with the writing. I really enjoy his stories. IMDB has him credited as director, though the page is pretty sparse right now.

Also, it looks like they took a tip from The Stanley Parable. And I really like how it effectively forces you to stop and stay still at some points to progress. I can't tell you how many times I find myself rushing through a game to get to the end, and wind up missing a lot of details. I wonder if silence and stillness are major elements of the main game.

I'm going to need to get me a PS4.

[Matt S]

I must admit, i missed the Stanley parable similarities...? Other than first person

[Mephisto]

Deleted (wrong thread).

EDIT: Eh, whatever. I'll write something.

The teaser had a nice atmosphere and really WTF moments but I agree that it had many jump-scares. Which is not a bad thing. But when a game starts to use it a lot it tends to get old. Especially in later playthroughs (because you're already used to the game's pattern. You already know what's going to happen).

[Little Wise Owl]

I think it's wrong to dismiss jump scares altogether as they can certainly help when done right and in small doses, but I certainly don't think they're NEEDED for the atmosphere to work. It's definitely possible to build tension and scare people without jumping out and screaming at them. The "horror" moments that stick out in my mind in the first few SH games were when you'd see creepy and impossible shit in the Otherworld. Those "what is THAT" moments that freak you out but also really interest you. Plus you've got the natural dread of being in a hostile and visually disturbing environment.

Hell, the old games used the opposite of jump scares for the stuff that's actually harmful. The radio let you know when enemies are near before they can actually do any harm to you. The tension then comes from the feeling of "what is it and where is it". Comparing that to having you walk down a hallway and then SOMETHING IS IN YOUR FACE SCREAMING AT YOU AHHHHH.

Like I said, a few good jump scares scattered about are fine and, yeah, they can even help set the tone. But I strongly disagree that they are needed or that the game would somehow be less effective if they decided not to use and.... whoa, I just got the strongest sense of deja vu while writing that last sentence. I think I've said this exact same thing about this exact same topic here before. Hm.

Basically this. Jump scares are fine in moderation but too many becomes a nuisance.

Supposedly, Kojima confirmed the game will be 3rd person. Trying to get confirmation of the source, so until then...grain of salt

Thank freaking lord. I hope this is true. Silent Hill in first person does nothing for me. It, to me, will make it look like EVERY new horror game coming out.

[DistantJ]

Tension and buildup are sex, a jump scare is an orgasm. You might not get one every time, and sometimes it's just as involving and effective without one, but if they didn't ever happen, we'd probably all be a lot less enthusiastic about the whole affair!

...I'm quite proud of that quote. Came up with that myself too. Where's my cookie?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the biggest horror element missing from the Silent Hill series since part 3 has been total darkness. The first three games all had parts where nothing was really visible outside the cone of light provided by the torch. You couldn't see the wall on the other side of a room, so your brain wasn't sure if it went on for miles or ended just ahead; this undercurrent of insecurity played a big role, even in outdoor areas.

Yeah, I remember thinking exactly that in Silent Hill 4, some areas were great but I would just imagine how much better those areas would be in the dark with just the illumination of the flashlight.

The P.T. looks genuinely scary, but I'm hoping the final game doesn't have those soft, inviting streetlamps along the roads of Silent Hill that we've seen in some screenshots.

Well, an example again was, when out in the town, there was light and illumination from things, hell in SH2/3 it was perfect daylight with only the fog obscuring you, the darkness came when you went indoors (or when it turned to night/otherworld outdoors and then you had that pitch black and silence). I like a bit of both to be honest. I reckon the 'red running' segment of the demo was the otherworld, and it reminded me a lot of some of the otherworlds in SH3, which were some of my favourite ones in the series. Those disturbing images and things kinda require illumination.

That said, I totally agree with DistantJ about jump scares. For suspense to work, there needs to be the assumption that something horrible can happen at any moment. Jump scares early in the game help establish the mood, but overdoing it makes them predictable (a la Dead Space).

You're talking my language One of the things I often said in defence of the second movie (as naff as the dialogue and everything else was) was that the monsters actually did stuff, hurt people, jumped out etc., which proved that the eerie segments actually had something to threaten you with. Otherwise you get Shattered Memories' light world - It's a great game, but that light world is never scary, no matter what effects and sounds they throw at you. People don't seem to realise that you can't just have empty threats, you have to deliver on them sometimes, and not others, then not knowing is what will make you truly afraid.

Hell, the old games used the opposite of jump scares for the stuff that's actually harmful. The radio let you know when enemies are near before they can actually do any harm to you. The tension then comes from the feeling of "what is it and where is it". Comparing that to having you walk down a hallway and then SOMETHING IS IN YOUR FACE SCREAMING AT YOU AHHHHH.

Well, remember this demo did that too, the bells and the eerie ambience would play when the woman was near, as well as her weird cries and groans. It told you she was near, but not necessarily where she was. You're also forgetting the jump scares in the classic games. Plenty of them!

- The cat in the locker is such a horror cliche that it's not even funny, but it worked (and then the otherworld version messed with your expectations afterwards).
- The dogs were programmed to leap at you with a roar, often from off-camera.
- Sections of SH2 did bring Pyramid Head in unannounced, maybe not with a BOO! but it's the same concept.
- The first mannequin after obtaining the flashlight was most definitely a jumpscare.
- The banging in the bathroom in the prison was one for sure.
- Silent Hill 3's scream followed by the beheaded mannequin.

[Tillerman]

Tension and buildup are sex, a jump scare is an orgasm. You might not get one every time, and sometimes it's just as involving and effective without one, but if they didn't ever happen, we'd probably all be a lot less enthusiastic about the whole affair!

You're right on the money about that! Although I would say it's not just jump scares, but surprised in general. The early Silent Hill games are great about this, with random wierd stuff like the prison monster in SH2 and the mirror room in SH3. You want the player to feel like they never know what's gonna happen next.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the biggest horror element missing from the Silent Hill series since part 3 has been total darkness

That's a good point, too. Darkness was so effectively used in the early SH's, and then seemingly forgotten about. It's why games with blocky graphics like Minecraft can even be scary.

[KingCrimson]

I would say my most fondly-remembered (if you can call it that...) "jump" scare from the whole series was in the first game. It wasn't even a loud noise, fast movement, or anything suddenly flashing in my face, it was just the unexpected appearance of that huge fucking moth. Like, I'm just walking through the transformed streets and suddenly I get this cutscene, no music, just Harry walking up a fire escape, then it pulls back and reveals this silent monstrosity was hovering a few feet away the whole time. I didn't "jump", but it shot the adrenalin through me, and for the rest of the game I didn't trust high places (totally thought something was gonna attack me on top of the lighthouse). That's really all you need, I think. Doesn't have to be a pop-tart, could just be something unexpected or even subtle, as long as it gives the rest of the experience a sense of foreboding. I feel like Del Toro could really be an asset in that regard, if he doesn't push the envelope too much.

[Tillerman]

My favorite jump scare from the first game is the corpse locker, and I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet. It's actually pretty brilliant. It builds on the fact that the game has already used the cat as a jump scare in the normal school (in fact, the whole purpose of that cat is for this scene IMO.) When you come to that same locker in the alternate school, it's rattling and you expect something like a monster cat, but it's just empty and filled with blood. This is pretty unsettling by itself, and leaves most players feeling like this was the point of this scene, but then as you try to leave a locker bursts open and a corpse falls out holding a key. That jump scare never fails to hit everyone I've seen play the game very hard!

Probably the best jump scare in any game I've ever played, and it works so well for largely psychological reasons.

[DistantJ]

I did actually mention that one above, but not as well worded as you did

[ShadowBaby]

I must admit, i missed the Stanley parable similarities...? Other than first person

Replaying the same area over and over, opening new options/paths/outcomes with each pass. That's basically all the Stanley Parable is, with some gaming/social commentary thrown in. Honestly, while watching the video, at the beginning, I kept thinking all it was missing was the sardonic narration.

On the subject of "jump scares". I agree they should be used sparingly. Downpour over did it and it just got annoying, actually killed the mood a little after a while. ...And the door slams shut.

I liked those moments in the first three where there were creatures around setting off the radio, but just out of reach. On first play through, it's terrifying, but then later it just adds to the atmosphere of this living, dangerous world, and showing that not everything is about the player. It adds something to the mystery of the town.

[noni_moon]

This demo was... genuinely scary. REALLY scary. I almost wanted to stop playing it because I was so unnerved.

Gosh.. I feel rather silly writing this; but I'm just overjoyed. I thought Silent Hill was over. I thought the days where I felt genuinely scared by a horror game were over. But nope! Kojima means business. If he says he wants gamers to shit their pants then they'll most likely do, and I can't freaking wait!