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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Possibility of multi-platform?

Missing since: 17 Aug 2014
Notes left: 15
Quote:
My preference is that hopefully they develop for PS4 first at 30 fps and then downres the Xbone version for something suitable.


As someone with a gaming PC but whose console is an Xbone, I also prefer this. Devs should always develop for the stronger console when dealing with multiplats. I think the differences between the two consoles are exaggerated by most, but it can't be argued that the PS4 is a stronger machine.

EDIT: I prefer a lowered res with 60fps though, personally. 30 feels very choppy and the motion blur games use to compensate looks pretty gnarly. I also edited out some elitist sounding PC nonsense.

Quote:
If you're on a powerful enough PC, then you basically get the benefits of pushing the res and framerate as much as you like and maybe even do so in 3-D. So there are no worries on that end.


Well no, not really--there are a few worries there. The PS4 is a pretty underpowered machine compared to modern gaming PCs of comparable price. Even my PC, which is a good two years old and was 600 dollars, is stronger. If PS4 is the main platform then PC gamers will not be able to take full advantage of their hardware. But that's nothing new, and nobody expects Konami to go The Witcher route and develop primarily for the PC. I say this only to emphasize that if you really want companies to develop for the strongest machines, then they should develop for the PC. But economically that makes zero sense. I doubt there will even be a PC version, which is why I said earlier that developing for the PS4 makes the most sense.

Anyway, I'm almost certain it'll be multiplat. The current-gen MGS series is, so it'd be quite strange to take a series that has traditionally been multiplatform and force it onto one system. Not to mention stupid. Xbone is obviously trailing the PS4, but it still has an install base of 5 million, which is actually impressive--just not *nearly* as impressive as the PS4. That's 5 million gamers you won't reach. Granted the Xbone version is just a downgraded PS4 version, it seems like it's worth the effort.

Not to mention that paid console exclusivity is gross. People would compare it to the Tomb Raider/Microsoft fiasco, but it wouldn't be comparable since Tomb Raider is merely a timed exclusive. If SH was a timed PS4 exclusive, it'd be the same. Still gross though, like with Destiny. I'd probably abandon SH as a series because dat shit don't play.

God I sound like such a PC elitist. Disclaimer: I fucking love my Xbone, and I love the PS4 too, and would buy one if I wasn't poor. I want TLOU Remastered so bad... so bad...

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Possibility of multi-platform?

Missing since: 04 Mar 2007
Notes left: 3333
Catch23 wrote:
Well no, not really--there are a few worries there. The PS4 is a pretty underpowered machine compared to modern gaming PCs of comparable price. Even my PC, which is a good two years old and was 600 dollars, is stronger. If PS4 is the main platform then PC gamers will not be able to take full advantage of their hardware.


Well what I mean is that even if the PS4 was developed for 1080p 30fps, a powerful PC can up the resolution to 2K and even go to 60 fps or run in stereoscopic 3-D based on your card and what the games' options support. MGSV was recently announced as coming to Steam. Kojima himself wants to support the PC, but most likely concerns over sales will see consoles versions release first to maximize revenue (publishers mean this as a way to avoid piracy on PC) with PC releases coming later, likely with more customized settings to facilitate higher and lower end PCs.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Possibility of multi-platform?

Missing since: 17 Aug 2014
Notes left: 15
jdnation wrote:
Catch23 wrote:
Well no, not really--there are a few worries there. The PS4 is a pretty underpowered machine compared to modern gaming PCs of comparable price. Even my PC, which is a good two years old and was 600 dollars, is stronger. If PS4 is the main platform then PC gamers will not be able to take full advantage of their hardware.


Well what I mean is that even if the PS4 was developed for 1080p 30fps, a powerful PC can up the resolution to 2K and even go to 60 fps or run in stereoscopic 3-D based on your card and what the games' options support. MGSV was recently announced as coming to Steam. Kojima himself wants to support the PC, but most likely concerns over sales will see consoles versions release first to maximize revenue (publishers mean this as a way to avoid piracy on PC) with PC releases coming later, likely with more customized settings to facilitate higher and lower end PCs.
True enough. Yet still, to use Ground Zeroes as an example, if the PC was the main focus during development, there would be fewer constraints on things like crowd sizes, hub world size, geographical detail, draw distance, etc, which might result in a "better" game for PC players that could then be carved up for consoles, rather than a merely up-res'd console title. The Witcher 3 is being developed with PC as its main platform because they can add more things to the game, and then remove them later for consoles.

I only mention this because you were speaking about how developing for underpowered machines (xbone) will result in lessened visual fidelity for those titles on the consoles that have more power (ps4); by that logic, the PC is really suffering the most as these multiplat titles are constrained by the limits of their underpowered main console platforms--constraints that aren't necessarily undone by simply offering higher FPS, resolutions, and textures, since such constraints may affect gameplay, world size--things that cannot simply be upscaled or tweaked in some config file.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: Possibility of multi-platform?
     
         
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Missing since: 13 Jun 2007
Notes left: 811
Last seen at: Brazil
Considering MGS 5 was recently announced for the PC I'd say there's a fair chance of this one getting released for it as well.

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Possibility of multi-platform?
     
         
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Missing since: 20 Jul 2004
Notes left: 1538
Last seen at: VA
jdnation wrote:
Sure it's not significant a gap say by the difference of scale as a Titan GPU, but the difference between PS4 and Xbone with concern to the GPU and the RAM allocation is significant margin. One need only see the comparisons between versions of multi-plat games that run at different resolutions, and 1080p native up from 720p is no meager feat to pull off, especially at 60 fps. Even MGSV had the same significant resolution differences between the Xbone and PS4.


Yeah, but most of those multiplat games weren't built from the ground up on either console. They were merely ports that were remastered, so they're not even tapping the full power of either console. Also, it's still super early in these consoles' life, so there's a bit of untapped power, along with general know-how to be discovered by these developers. Plus, Xbone is already gaining ground with the 1080p issue. Destiny and Diablo 3 are both at 1080p now, when they were initially supposed to run at 900p.

Lastly, the PS3 was more powerful than 360, yet most multiplat games looked and ran better on 360. I'm not saying that'll be the case this go around, I'm just saying PS4's power edge probably won't mean much in the long run.

And yes, that's exactly what I'm hoping for with a PC release! I want to be able to max it out as much as I can, and possibly experience it in 3D.


Catch23 wrote:
jdnation wrote:
Catch23 wrote:
Well no, not really--there are a few worries there. The PS4 is a pretty underpowered machine compared to modern gaming PCs of comparable price. Even my PC, which is a good two years old and was 600 dollars, is stronger. If PS4 is the main platform then PC gamers will not be able to take full advantage of their hardware.


Well what I mean is that even if the PS4 was developed for 1080p 30fps, a powerful PC can up the resolution to 2K and even go to 60 fps or run in stereoscopic 3-D based on your card and what the games' options support. MGSV was recently announced as coming to Steam. Kojima himself wants to support the PC, but most likely concerns over sales will see consoles versions release first to maximize revenue (publishers mean this as a way to avoid piracy on PC) with PC releases coming later, likely with more customized settings to facilitate higher and lower end PCs.
True enough. Yet still, to use Ground Zeroes as an example, if the PC was the main focus during development, there would be fewer constraints on things like crowd sizes, hub world size, geographical detail, draw distance, etc, which might result in a "better" game for PC players that could then be carved up for consoles, rather than a merely up-res'd console title. The Witcher 3 is being developed with PC as its main platform because they can add more things to the game, and then remove them later for consoles.

I only mention this because you were speaking about how developing for underpowered machines (xbone) will result in lessened visual fidelity for those titles on the consoles that have more power (ps4); by that logic, the PC is really suffering the most as these multiplat titles are constrained by the limits of their underpowered main console platforms--constraints that aren't necessarily undone by simply offering higher FPS, resolutions, and textures, since such constraints may affect gameplay, world size--things that cannot simply be upscaled or tweaked in some config file.



And this is so true, and one of the main gripes I see among fellow PC gamers. We get buggier titles, that aren't really pushing the powerful rigs people have put together. Like you said, we basically get a console game, with better resolution and slightly better textures.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Possibility of multi-platform?

Missing since: 04 Mar 2007
Notes left: 3333
Skele wrote:
Yeah, but most of those multiplat games weren't built from the ground up on either console. They were merely ports that were remastered, so they're not even tapping the full power of either console.


Well, in a way most of those games were cross-gen, so they were basically built for PS3/360. While not necessarily optimized for Xbone, the fact that PS4 could easily run them at 1080/60 and Xbone couldn't was pretty telling.

Quote:
Also, it's still super early in these consoles' life, so there's a bit of untapped power, along with general know-how to be discovered by these developers. Plus, Xbone is already gaining ground with the 1080p issue. Destiny and Diablo 3 are both at 1080p now, when they were initially supposed to run at 900p.


Microsoft has recently unbundled Kinect and thus that frees up some memory. But its still bottlenecked by its RAM solution and PS4 has a superior GPU. Reasons like this were why there was a disparity and why Microsoft is taking steps to mandate games like Diablo and Destiny to run at 1080, including sending engineers to the devs to help them out. But this still comes at a cost as concessions will have to be made to get the sames games to technically run at 1080/60 on Xbone.
http://www.polygon.com/2014/8/19/604514 ... resolution

Quote:
Lastly, the PS3 was more powerful than 360, yet most multiplat games looked and ran better on 360. I'm not saying that'll be the case this go around, I'm just saying PS4's power edge probably won't mean much in the long run.


PS3's problem was a unique one given its split RAM and exotic CELL architecture, paired with a blu-ray drive whose streaming methods were different from DVD; these were something devs were not used to compared to the 360's easier PC-like design and Microsoft's better tool support. On paper, PS3 was indeed very powerful, but required a lot of know-how to use it which was a source of frustration. Only Sony's first parties made use of this. With 360 being the lead platform for development and the larger install base, devs simply focused on the 360 as the primary console, and then threw the DVD footprint on the blu-ray disc with no optimization and often with a required install. Most didn't want to invest earlier into the problems associated with PS3 development until Sony got its tools up to shape.

Given both PS4 and Xbone are now very much like PCs and PS4 doesn't suffer from the problems PS3 did, it'll in fact be easier for developers to take advantage of PS4 than they ever could with PS3. Though in a way, PS3 was ahead of its time in knowing that computing was heading to multi-processor CPGPUs multi-threading methods. Sadly Cell would never be a part of that. In fact, on paper the Cell is still better at number crunching than the PS4's CPU! But the PS4 has a more modern design that makes it better in the end.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Possibility of multi-platform?

Missing since: 17 Aug 2014
Notes left: 15
I had a thought. Yes, a thought. I was thinking: if I had the "superior" console (ie. a Sonybox 720) I would gladly accept concessions if it meant other gamers got to experience Silent Hill. Wider audience, greater sales, more chance that the series lives on. And better yet, new gamers get the chance to experience a series I love. Not worth blocking out all of those gamers just so I can have a superior skybox or more foliage or better looking tiles or reflections that are able to reflect the shimmers on Norman's ever-present leather jacket or greater detail on Lisa's forehead. Sacrifice worth making in my book; the changes are trivial and more of my friends can play the game. I am magnanimous.

Calls for exclusivity are by their very nature selfish. Not irrational, mind. No, it makes all the sense in the world. But gamers who call for exclusivity on the grounds that they want their game to look real purdy aren't necessarily charitable individuals. And nor should they be, really. But I find it jarring. I want people to be happy and play games and have fun and look at Norman's beautiful face.

Nostalgia goggle'd side note: I know times have changed, but people weren't nearly as vocal about the importance of graphics when the PS2 was the weakest machine. Back then it seemed the importance was placed more on the strength of a console's game library and what the developers could get out of machines that, on paper, may be weaker. I long for those days. I long for them.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Possibility of multi-platform?
     
         
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Missing since: 17 Aug 2014
Notes left: 3
Catch23 wrote:
Nostalgia goggle'd side note: I know times have changed, but people weren't nearly as vocal about the importance of graphics when the PS2 was the weakest machine. Back then it seemed the importance was placed more on the strength of a console's game library and what the developers could get out of machines that, on paper, may be weaker. I long for those days. I long for them.
Which is why I have became a PC game player ever since. I still keep my PS2 and I'm never buying a new console again. And guess what, the best games of the Silent Hill series can be played on both my PC and PS2. I'm very happy with that.

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Possibility of multi-platform?
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Sep 2012
Notes left: 160
As I have a ps4, I wouldn't be upset if it's exclusive. But as a fan of the series, I want it to be successful, so multiplatform would be better. and I wouldn't any fan not to be able to play it because they didn't buy a ps4.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Possibility of multi-platform?

Missing since: 17 Aug 2014
Notes left: 15
Panko1 wrote:
Catch23 wrote:
Nostalgia goggle'd side note: I know times have changed, but people weren't nearly as vocal about the importance of graphics when the PS2 was the weakest machine. Back then it seemed the importance was placed more on the strength of a console's game library and what the developers could get out of machines that, on paper, may be weaker. I long for those days. I long for them.
Which is why I have became a PC game player ever since. I still keep my PS2 and I'm never buying a new console again. And guess what, the best games of the Silent Hill series can be played on both my PC and PS2. I'm very happy with that.
Agreed. Praise be to PCSX2.

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Possibility of multi-platform?
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Aug 2005
Notes left: 283
Last seen at: Canada
Well I PRAY that this comes out for PC!

I've played all of the Silent Hill Games (except Downpour) on PC on my TVs over the years. Most in full 1080p and in 3D, and also I've played SH3 and SH4 in triple screen surround (5880x1080)

Now I'm gaming on a 55 inch curved UHD TV (3840x2160 at 60fps). The Silent Hill games look excellent in UHD resolution. I've played SH1 (emulator),SH3,SH4,SH-HC, and SH Shattered Memories (via dolphin emulator) in 3840x2160.

UHD is sooooo nice and PT/Silent Hills would look amazing!

What would be real nice is if we could get Oculus Rift and Project Morpheus support.

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Possibility of multi-platform?
     
         
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Missing since: 30 Sep 2009
Notes left: 563
Last seen at: Centennial Building
You know what'd actually be funny? If Silent Hills were suddenly exclusive to the Wii U :P
But joking aside, I'm not really one who minds graphical superiority/inferiority. Hell, I'd even play Silent Hills if it were produced for the PS2. It's true that better graphics create more detail and better immersion, but not knowing or being able to see every detail just adds up to the mystery that is Silent Hill.
As for the possibility of multi-platform: As I don't have any console except for the Wii U, I at least hope i can play it on my PC, it's not the greatest one, but at least then I can play Silent Hills :)

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Possibility of multi-platform?
     
         
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Missing since: 26 Mar 2010
Notes left: 1875
Last seen at: Los Angeles
If nothing else, I would have to expect Koji team would come up with a few interesting uses of the wii-u gamepad.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: Possibility of multi-platform?
     
         
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Missing since: 22 Sep 2014
Notes left: 348
Last seen at: Kent (England)
Typographenia wrote:
If nothing else, I would have to expect Koji team would come up with a few interesting uses of the wii-u gamepad.


That would be rather nice. :D

Releasing the game as a PS4 exclusive would be financial suicide, I just can't imagine it would sell enough copies on one system alone, horror games struggle as far as sales go at the best of times (they are never the biggest sellers). there may be a lot of horror fans out there but a shockingly small percentage of gamers that I know, (both online and off) actually play horror games, it's just not an incredibly popular genre, I wish that weren't true but it is. Think about how many gamers you know and then think how many of them play Silent Hill, I'd wager it's not a huge amount.

And before anyone says "oh all MY freinds like SH", 1) you are a very rare minority and 2) I don't believe you :wink:

I know dozens if not hundrens of people who play games (again both online and for real) and only a handfull of them have even played SH, and most of them that haven't would hate it. It confuses most regular folk, lots of people have said to me though "I like watching it but I just can't play it myself".

That being said SH2 and 3 for my money were AAA titles, sporting the very best graphics and sound that I had seen up to that point, hope they can return to that, along with fantastically involving and moving stories,.

We need an XB1 and PC version, otherwise my fear is that this could be the very last SH we ever see, Kojima or no Kojima.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Possibility of multi-platform?

Missing since: 04 Mar 2007
Notes left: 3333
Its Gone Now wrote:
Releasing the game as a PS4 exclusive would be financial suicide, I just can't imagine it would sell enough copies on one system alone, horror games struggle as far as sales go at the best of times (they are never the biggest sellers). there may be a lot of horror fans out there but a shockingly small percentage of gamers that I know, (both online and off) actually play horror games, it's just not an incredibly popular genre, I wish that weren't true but it is. Think about how many gamers you know and then think how many of them play Silent Hill, I'd wager it's not a huge amount.


Not necessarily. PS4 is the best selling new gen console by a significant margin. It's sales continue to match pace with the Wii worldwide which is pretty incredible, though of course Wii still had larger demand and was more scarce.

Not to mention that even considering the demographics between PS and Xbox owners, a sizable base remains on PS systems which is where the franchise was born.

Given high budget console exclusives still exist, there's no reason a high-profile title won't be very profitable on PS4. So financial suicide it ain't, but indeed Konami will stand to gain more sales from also releasing on PC and Xbone. So if anything it'd just make more sense to go for the larger pie.

Japanese development will also continue to favor the PS system if only because it's the only console of choice on their home turf. I expect that Silent Hills will release on PS4/Xbone/PC worldwide, but will be PS4/PC only in Japan as far as current trends tend to go.

Horror games have been seeing a resurgence in popularity in the indie circuit on PC, as well these games also find a home digitally on the consoles. The reasons for horror games not being interesting to audiences is hogwash. The P.T. demo alone was majorly popular (it also helps that it was free). And went viral.

Publishers have only decided in their minds that a certain type of horror doesn't sell, and have pushed for either the action dumbed down route, or feel smaller intimate affairs aren't worth the resources for the little income, when they can invest in something that will appeal more widely and make more money. So it's not that you can't make successful horror games. It's that publishers and devs have limited resources and would rather risk it all to fight in the big blue now-bloody red ocean where they can micro-transaction and DLC the crap out of everything to please the investors who only know how to follow market trends than set them.

Silent Hills is guaranteed to sell based on the caliber of Kojima Productions, and the following that Del Toro and Norman Reedus will bring. Kojima is clever in that he knows how to hype and market his games. P.T. was an amazing investment that paid dividends in generating interest in Silent Hill again. I imagine it's only going to get more interesting once MGSV is out of the way, and Del Toro and Reedus finish their current obligations.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: Possibility of multi-platform?
     
         
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Missing since: 22 Sep 2014
Notes left: 348
Last seen at: Kent (England)
jdnation wrote:
Not necessarily. PS4 is the best selling new gen console by a significant margin. It's sales continue to match pace with the Wii worldwide which is pretty incredible, though of course Wii still had larger demand and was more scarce.


You have a point I'll give you that, but you cannot say that it wouldn't sell more and have a higher chance of success if it was released on all platforms.

Metal Gear is now on all platforms so I would be very surprised if it was not released on XB1 and PC.

I'm not bothered as I shall be aquiring a PS4 either way but I would not begrudge the XB crowd the chance to play it (some ppl would).

SH1 is the only SH game that I can think of that has been a PS exclusive (PS1 was peerless when it was released), SH2 was at release but it was released on XB some time after.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Possibility of multi-platform?

Missing since: 04 Mar 2007
Notes left: 3333
I didn't. It undoubtedly would make more money by selling more copies across a larger number of platforms.

But also what people forget to keep in mind is that multiplatform development is more expensive than developing for one platform. it requires more staff, more dev kits, more QA and bug fixing etc.

For a Konami this is largely a non-issue. Though at the same time it depends on the project and what they get out of it. This is why P.T. is only available on PS4. Releasing it on Xbone would cost more money to develop it, and as a freebie Konami didn't see the need. Though it's likely Sony also cut a deal to host and distribute it for free and thus they are P.T.'s co-publisher.

So in terms of a risky venture as P.T. was with no income, it makes sense to limit costs by developing it as a PS4 exclusive, and getting Sony to help mitigate costs by bringing them on board.

Silent Hills is now a hotly anticipated thing with a lot of clout behind it, but assuming a scenario where Silent Hill was approached from a different angle that might not garner as much interest, it may also make financial sense to mitigate risk through development on one console, perhaps leaving the door open for a port if things go right.

So that's largely what I meant. But anyway, I believe it's a given that Silent Hills will be PS4/Xbone/PC. Though I suspect that Sony and Konami may collaborate on tying the game's marketing more closely with PS4. Maybe even some exclusive items or Morpheus support mode or something. I have a suspicion that we'll be seeing P.T. in VR on Morpheus sometime... We'll probably have a better idea around G.D.C.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: Possibility of multi-platform?
     
         
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Missing since: 22 Sep 2014
Notes left: 348
Last seen at: Kent (England)
It wouldn't surprise me if they released a Morpheus compatible version of P.T. on the physical disc of Silent Hills. As well as a downloadable version.

1st person horror games are perfect for VR.


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