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Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ
http://silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=25771
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Author:  Ryantology [ 15 Aug 2014 ]
Post subject:  Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ

This thread is for you to express your (congenial) negativity about the trailer, what may have disappointed you, and so on. Please don't let it get nasty or personal.

Author:  Below [ 15 Aug 2014 ]
Post subject:  Re: Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ

I'll be the first to say that the mechanics for progression aren't quite elegant, but I'd be hard-pressed to come up with a superior alternative considering the nature of what we got. That aside, strictly out of personal preference, I didn't care for the ghost's design. I understand that may not be indicative of any final design but for the sake of stating it I prefer something more apparently abstract.

Author:  Drainage64 [ 15 Aug 2014 ]
Post subject:  Re: Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ

mainly the jumpscares thing, I usually think that jump scares can actually be great when done sparringly and effectively , but after you have the ghost lady zoom past you for the 3rd or 4th time most people are going to feel like it's old.


I'm really just hoping that this teaser was in full-troll mode and that the final product won't rely on things popping out 24/7, as much as I liked the teaser, silent hill has always been really good about creating intenses feelings of anxiety that never really let up, and I just hope that this isn't betrayed by constant instances of BOO!

Then again, Silent Hill 3 had the imfameous mannequin scare, that was a jump type thing that I thought worked very well. I'd be happy if such things were like that. Quality over quantity! :)

Author:  NanayaShiki [ 16 Aug 2014 ]
Post subject:  Re: Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ

Well, the whole thing felt like a cliche generic cheap indie horror title that you can find hundreds of Steam right now. The entire thing seems to have the entirely wrong atmosphere and approach for a Silent Hill title. The scares were cheap. Not just because they're jump scares but because they aren't really well paced or implemented at all. There's banging on a door, the door creaks open, you look inside, a creepy face pops up and the door slams shut. That's... that's just not Silent Hill.

Now, don't get me wrong, I get it. This was all intentional. Right down to the trailer for it showing the overdone night vision camera shots of people screaming. It was designed from the ground up to make us think it was a cheesy indie horror game and not a Silent Hill title. He's confirmed that. Still, this topic is asking me what I think the teaser could have done better and if I'm just looking at it objectively, that would be it. The scares are cheap, the atmosphere/style is all wrong, and of course it gets tedious and repetitive fast.

Also, look... that whole thing at the end about the guy's father killing him and he's coming back. It's... really dumb. It's not that it's more supernatural, it's just... well it's badly written and really a rather mundane idea to begin with.

The other side of this coin can be found in the Pros thread:
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=25770&p=680323#p680323

Author:  fudgestix [ 16 Aug 2014 ]
Post subject:  Re: Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ

The first person thing with some of the camera effects is pretty nauseating. I just watched footage on youtube, and
[Reveal] Spoiler:
the part where the corridoor turns red and the 'vision' becomes hazy and laggy while seemingly on fast forward messed with my brain in totally the wrong way


I doubt the final game will be totally first person (if at all), but I hope if it is, then they don't pull any of that kind of stuff x_x

Author:  Matt S [ 16 Aug 2014 ]
Post subject:  Re: Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ

Only con for me: too short

Author:  Jonipoon [ 16 Aug 2014 ]
Post subject:  Re: Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ

NanayaShiki wrote:
Also, look... that whole thing at the end about the guy's father killing him and he's coming back. It's... really dumb. It's not that it's more supernatural, it's just... well it's badly written and really a rather mundane idea to begin with.

I agree. That whole monologue felt like they're taking the supernatural aspects of Silent Hill and making them too perceptible. That's not the way to do it, since the supernatural forces in Silent Hill were always very subtle.

"I'm bringing my new toys with me" sounds like something taken straight from an American horror splatter movie. Its very cheesy and I didn't like it.

Author:  Huknar [ 16 Aug 2014 ]
Post subject:  Re: Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ

Jonipoon wrote:
NanayaShiki wrote:
Also, look... that whole thing at the end about the guy's father killing him and he's coming back. It's... really dumb. It's not that it's more supernatural, it's just... well it's badly written and really a rather mundane idea to begin with.

I agree. That whole monologue felt like they're taking the supernatural aspects of Silent Hill and making them too perceptible. That's not the way to do it, since the supernatural forces in Silent Hill were always very subtle.

"I'm bringing my new toys with me" sounds like something taken straight from an American horror splatter movie. Its very cheesy and I didn't like it.


Am I the only one that didn't take that as content for the actual game (let alone the Silent Hill title that is UNRELATED to this.), but rather a clever way to give the pains the series has faced a voice? It is obviously either Silent Hill as a series, or survival horror talking. :)

Author:  NanayaShiki [ 16 Aug 2014 ]
Post subject:  Re: Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ

Huknar wrote:
Jonipoon wrote:
NanayaShiki wrote:
Also, look... that whole thing at the end about the guy's father killing him and he's coming back. It's... really dumb. It's not that it's more supernatural, it's just... well it's badly written and really a rather mundane idea to begin with.

I agree. That whole monologue felt like they're taking the supernatural aspects of Silent Hill and making them too perceptible. That's not the way to do it, since the supernatural forces in Silent Hill were always very subtle.

"I'm bringing my new toys with me" sounds like something taken straight from an American horror splatter movie. Its very cheesy and I didn't like it.


Am I the only one that didn't take that as content for the actual game (let alone the Silent Hill title that is UNRELATED to this.), but rather a clever way to give the pains the series has faced a voice? It is obviously either Silent Hill as a series, or survival horror talking. :)


It's been made very clear that PT does not reflect the final SIlent Hill game and they were intentionally making it not SH-y to trick people. However, we don't know how far that statement extends. Just the gameplay and visuals or literally everything about it? Plus, as I said in my post, this thread is about the things we think that teaser could have done better and if I'm just looking at it from that point of view, that bit was really bad.

As for your theory that it was a statement on the status of the series or the genre, no, I truly don't believe that. Especially since a lot of people liked the newer SIlent Hill games (myself included), and this is still Konami making this so it's not like they're going to start trash-talking themselves. It sounds like you're projecting and also seeking really hard for validation that this will "be the one" and that the games you disliked are disliked by everyone, including Kojima. Sorry. Also, survival horror isn't even remotely dead. If this teaser was enjoyable for you then there are about eight hundred games on Steam right now just like it. A few of them are good, even.

The person talking in that monologue is referring to the news story heard at the beginning of the game on the radio.

Author:  sh#1fan [ 16 Aug 2014 ]
Post subject:  Re: Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ

I HAVE A CON
BBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOO why is this demo (p.t) only ps4? I don't have a ps4 yet ( I don't hate sony and I am going to get a ps4... I just want an actual game to come out for it before I buy one ) I only have Xbone.
I know the Xbone can handle the FOX engine because of MGS5 so why is there no demo for it? BBBBOOOOOOOOOO
lol that's my only complaint
I WANT TO PLAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Author:  NanayaShiki [ 16 Aug 2014 ]
Post subject:  Re: Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ

Jim Sterling (of The Escapist, youtube, and formerly Destructoid) really disliked PT. Didn't feel this was worth it's own thread, but I'll post it here. Personally, I don't agree with everything he says and I don't hate PT like he does, but I do think the general idea of what he is saying has some merit to it.

"Played P.T., or as I like to call it, pfffffft."
"I've played too many games exactly like it on Steam."
" Doing a poo on purpose doesn't make it smell of roses."
""It worked, we're talking about it" is one of the worst responses to criticism. It doesn't really defend the thing being talked about. If I wanted people to just talk about me, if that's the only goal, I could go on a shooting rampage. Hey, it'd "work.""
"to produce a lame YouTube fodder game full of arbitrary "puzzles" and poorly structured jump scares, then defend it with "Oh it's MEANT to be like that," is crap. Look, I get that we're not supposed to criticize things when Kojima does them, but if this was released on Steam by a true no-name dev, people would roll their eyes at the PewDieBait like any other one.
The game's not even scary. It's irritating.
Now, ALL of this is not to say that I don't think the surprise Silent Hills reveal wasn't masterful. The fact that a shitty YouTube fodder game hid a huge announcement was actually really cool. As a piece of advertising, P.T. is brilliant. But if you ask me what I think of the game itself, I'll tell you it's crap. Because it is."

Author:  Little Wise Owl [ 16 Aug 2014 ]
Post subject:  Re: Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ

NanayaShiki wrote:
Jim Sterling (of The Escapist, youtube, and formerly Destructoid) really disliked PT. Didn't feel this was worth it's own thread, but I'll post it here. Personally, I don't agree with everything he says and I don't hate PT like he does, but I do think the general idea of what he is saying has some merit to it.

"Played P.T., or as I like to call it, pfffffft."
"I've played too many games exactly like it on Steam."
" Doing a poo on purpose doesn't make it smell of roses."
""It worked, we're talking about it" is one of the worst responses to criticism. It doesn't really defend the thing being talked about. If I wanted people to just talk about me, if that's the only goal, I could go on a shooting rampage. Hey, it'd "work.""
"to produce a lame YouTube fodder game full of arbitrary "puzzles" and poorly structured jump scares, then defend it with "Oh it's MEANT to be like that," is crap. Look, I get that we're not supposed to criticize things when Kojima does them, but if this was released on Steam by a true no-name dev, people would roll their eyes at the PewDieBait like any other one.
The game's not even scary. It's irritating.
Now, ALL of this is not to say that I don't think the surprise Silent Hills reveal wasn't masterful. The fact that a shitty YouTube fodder game hid a huge announcement was actually really cool. As a piece of advertising, P.T. is brilliant. But if you ask me what I think of the game itself, I'll tell you it's crap. Because it is."


I do agree that it does look like every single new steam horror game. That's why I'm pretty much against the idea of the actual game being in FP.

Author:  NanayaShiki [ 16 Aug 2014 ]
Post subject:  Re: Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ

Little Wise Owl wrote:
I do agree that it does look like every single new steam horror game. That's why I'm pretty much against the idea of the actual game being in FP.


Yeah, I said the same thing in my own first post of this thread yesterday. I also said a few days ago that people are forgiving this for a lot of things they would be tearing it apart for if it wasn't the Kojima Silent Hill project they've been asking for. I approached that from a "previous SH games" angle, but Jim Sterling is right in that there would also be a lot of people calling it "PewDieBait", as he says.

I don't agree, however, that Kojima's intentions are irrelevant or that the overall teaser is "crap". I just thought it'd be interesting to share.

Author:  Tillerman [ 16 Aug 2014 ]
Post subject:  Re: Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ

NanayaShiki wrote:
Yeah, I said the same thing in my own first post of this thread yesterday. I also said a few days ago that people are forgiving this for a lot of things they would be tearing it apart for if it wasn't the Kojima Silent Hill project they've been asking for.


I think you're right about that, but also I think people are being forgiving since we know the actual game won't play like this. If this were supposed to be a demo of what the actual game would be like, I think we'd see a lot more criticism.

I agree with your criticisms of PT, though, just taken on it's own merits. It's not the right atmosphere for Silent Hill. Hopefully this was intentional as part of it's disguise as an indie horror game, and hopefully the actual game will feel more Silent Hill.

Author:  Sith_Dreamer [ 16 Aug 2014 ]
Post subject:  Re: Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ

In relation to the final product, I'd say a different focus on horror. Jump scares were effective here, but I don't want an SH game built on them.

Otherwise, monster design. We only had the ghost lady, the "stilt man" as I referred to it, and the bloody fetus, and only one of those attacked, but she was just a ghost lady like whats popped up in several horror games as of late. I want to see Kojima and Del Toro go all out and give us some truly horrifying creatures, Considering the teaser to me was all kinds of unsettling, I think with some great creature design, Kojima could in fact get us to shit our pants.

Author:  Reverend [ 16 Aug 2014 ]
Post subject:  Re: Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ

I fail to see how this isn't a Silent Hill atmosphere. This is the closest anything has gotten to Team Silent's brand of eeriness since at least SH4. The sh2 style is shockingly well realized without just imitating and failing (like the last 8 years of releases) Not to mention the first four games had a wide range of looks and feels. What about this feels wrong to you?

Author:  Arachnid1 [ 16 Aug 2014 ]
Post subject:  Re: Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ

The monster design. Don't get me wrong, this lady was terrifying:

Image

But she's not really SH. I want some freaky creatures. Del Toro is good at design if the monster from Pans Labyrinth is anything to go off of. I'm hoping he gets even more abstract than
that though. I'm tired of overly humanoid monsters.

Image
Image

Author:  Reverend [ 16 Aug 2014 ]
Post subject:  Re: Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ

I can understand that, but at the same time these ghosts make sense in the context of the story being told, and you can only do so many faceless, leathery creatures before they start to look the same. And I don't think it really changes the atmosphere as much as all the spooky typewriter fonts, high tech gadgets, big breasted nurses, witch burners, bastardized pyramid heads and korn soundtracks we've been subjected to. Del Toro's involvement and that 'baby' in the sink seems to hint that we will indeed see some biological abominations in this game. I just hope they aren't over the top or too stylized or arbitrary.

I'll say that this might be the most effective use of 'ghosts' I have ever seen, and they're trying a lot of new ideas we haven't seen from Silent Hill before. Ironically I've been accused of not wanting Silent Hill to ever change or do something new, but as long as I get that old feeling without being taken out of it by some horrible cartoon cliche, I am 100% on board. Until a couple days ago I thought I'd never play a Silent Hill this good again. And now I already have.


--------------------

I also think all the elements that feel like departures
have a precedent in SH4. I know a lot of you rejected that game but for me it's a good example of where the fans split. Some people need the foggy streets and the cult for it to be Silent Hill, but for me even without Ito's great monster designs The Room was a nice sidestep, a breath of fresh air that felt every bit like a Silent Hill game without going back to the same well. I'd play the Room fifty times before I bother with Homecoming or watch the "Silent Hill" movie again. To me those feel nothing at all like silent hill, while superficially they seem to have all of the elements. Nor are they the slightest bit scary, which might be the worst sin of all.

I also wouldn't mind if the new game had some updates of things from sh2 as the advances in graphics present a lot of new potential for those older ideas.
Mod edit: Post combined. Please don't double post so close together, if you have something to add use the edit button. You can read more here http://silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=25371

Author:  Arachnid1 [ 17 Aug 2014 ]
Post subject:  Re: Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ

Reverend wrote:
I can understand that, but at the same time these ghosts make sense in the context of the story being told, and you can only do so many faceless, leathery creatures before they start to look the same. And I don't think it really changes the atmosphere as much as all the spooky typewriter fonts, high tech gadgets, big breasted nurses, witch burners, bastardized pyramid heads and korn soundtracks we've been subjected to. Del Toro's involvement and that 'baby' in the sink seems to hint that we will indeed see some biological abominations in this game. I just hope they aren't over the top or too stylized or arbitrary.

I'll say that this might be the most effective use of 'ghosts' I have ever seen, and they're trying a lot of new ideas we haven't seen from Silent Hill before. Ironically I've been accused of not wanting Silent Hill to ever change or do something new, but as long as I get that old feeling without being taken out of it by some horrible cartoon cliche, I am 100% on board. Until a couple days ago I thought I'd never play a Silent Hill this good again. And now I already have.


--------------------

I also think all the elements that feel like departures
have a precedent in SH4. I know a lot of you rejected that game but for me it's a good example of where the fans split. Some people need the foggy streets and the cult for it to be Silent Hill, but for me even without Ito's great monster designs The Room was a nice sidestep, a breath of fresh air that felt every bit like a Silent Hill game without going back to the same well. I'd play the Room fifty times before I bother with Homecoming or watch the "Silent Hill" movie again. To me those feel nothing at all like silent hill, while superficially they seem to have all of the elements. Nor are they the slightest bit scary, which might be the worst sin of all.

I also wouldn't mind if the new game had some updates of things from sh2 as the advances in graphics present a lot of new potential for those older ideas.
Mod edit: Post combined. Please don't double post so close together, if you have something to add use the edit button. You can read more here http://silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=25371

Agreed with all these points. Great post!

And I loved The Room. I know some others didn't but I thought it was great. Some of the monster designs were lame though, like the leopards with the long tongues, and the gum heads.

It also made up for them when it introduced the twins though. Hands down one of the most terrifying monsters I've encountered in horror games. My god, when they stomped towards you...
Image

Author:  Matt S [ 17 Aug 2014 ]
Post subject:  Re: Cons! What the teaser could have done better! ಠ益ಠ

The baby headed creature in Sh 4 was creepy as hell

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