Silent Hill in First Person

[Esperandote]

I wouldn't mind having a button dedicated to switching between perspectives. I myself would stick mostly in third-person mode because I think it helps to get to know a character but it could come in handy if you want to take a closer look at something. My main problem with first-person is that combat tends to look floaty and takes up too much of the screen. I also like seeing characters react to things and show emotions.

Imagine if there is a button for switching back and forth between 1st and 3rd, like in The Elder Scrolls, and Kojima messes with that mechanic as part of the game. For instance, you need to switch to FP in order to properly examine something, and when you switch back, there's something standing right behind you! Or, at one point in the game, you get stuck in one of the views, and can't switch back for a time. Or, in one instance, as soon as you go to FP, there's something right in your face!

[SPRINGS02]

See, that's what i'm saying. I don't see why they can't just do like siren blood curse and have the ability to switch between first person and third person. Don't know why more games don't do that.

[sh#1fan]

I hate to be the poop in the punch bowl... but outlast is not scary at all. (MY OPINION)
Don't get me wrong it started off scary, but it did not last long. it uses the cover and heal bullcrap system. A video camera with no battery power Easy to run from enemy's that have horrible AI programing.... meh I don't know I just did not find it scary

Is Outlast a downloadable game or can you purchase it on a physical disk as well? (ps4)

It's a indy game so its downloadable only through ps4 store, xb1 store and pc.

ANYWAY
About silent hill being first person. it could work... but I would prefer 3rd person.
If it is first person I will still get it lol.

Yeah, you're definitely in the minority.

I do have to ask if you even played through the entire game? I only ask because at first the enemies are pretty dumb

PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:

(like not checking under beds, always checking the wrong locker)

but later in the game enemies are smarter, and getting away from them isn't as easy. Also, the night vision mode of the video camera relies on batteries! Without that for assistance, you're screwed in some parts of the game.

Sorry for late response. I'm currently working on 10 different games atm sigh..
Yes I have the game for XB1 played through the game on insanity (or hardest mode... ( I think its called insanity ). As I was saying about there being no battery power. I was referring that you have to actually collect batteries through the game because each one last like 2 minutes when using IR mode. WTF kind of camera eats a battery like that? Its no fun or scary or challenging It's just annoying.
Second: The enemy's are all basicly the same and all you have to do is wait and kind of learn there patrol patterns to get past them.
Third: the main character is pathetic... he's brave enough to brake into a mental asylum, but not smart enough to bring a weapon or any kind of defense... or use weapons from the environment ... yeah... that makes sense.

If you like the game that's fine! This is just my opinion and why I did not like it. I don't care if I am in the minority. The game is just another cookie cutter indie clone of like a million other indie games.

I think silent hill could be a scary first person game, but I love old school 3rd person tank controls. for me that's real survival horror. I think the first person stuff was just for the P.T demo.

[jdnation]

See, that's what i'm saying. I don't see why they can't just do like siren blood curse and have the ability to switch between first person and third person. Don't know why more games don't do that.

I'm guessing that it will most likely be this. The best way to please everyone. MGSV already does it so they just need to carry it over. But it is true that given one view or the other being fixed, the director can count on doing certain things that take advantage of the view.

I'm also liking the idea of fixing the player to either 1st or 3rd like the Room did at certain moments/areas to give us a cool experience with both.

The only reason I believe they went with FPV for P.T. is to
a) Further mask the idea that this has to do with Silent Hill.
b) Resemble an indy horror title, the majority of which are FPV.
c) To hide the surprise of the identity of the Main Character you're playing as.

In all likelyhood they were always going to shoot for traditional third person given the hiring of Norman Reedus, but perhaps the completion of P.T. and reaction has given them pause to reconsider what would be better.

[Tillerman]

Imagine if there is a button for switching back and forth between 1st and 3rd, like in The Elder Scrolls, and Kojima messes with that mechanic as part of the game. For instance, you need to switch to FP in order to properly examine something, and when you switch back, there's something standing right behind you! Or, at one point in the game, you get stuck in one of the views, and can't switch back for a time. Or, in one instance, as soon as
you go to FP, there's something right in your face!

I think that's a good solution. And like Spring said, more games should totally do that... that way everyone is happy.

My only concern is that I don't want them to be lazy about designing 3rd person mode. Skyrim is really lazy about it, with 3rd person mode just feeling tacked on. I want them to put some work into doing lots of cinematic camera angles for 3rd person mode. A game like Fatal Frame is able to pull this off, and yet still allows you to switch to first person mode at any time.

Also, there would likely have to be separate control schemes for 3rd and 1st person mode. For 3rd person mode, I would like the option of analog control over the character. Fatal Frame sort of gives you a blend of analog and tank controls, in that there is a dedicated run button for making the character run forward... something like that would be nice. On the other hand, first person games always use tank controls with strafing added on. I think they should probably leave the strafing out, at least, just for consistency.

[Skele]

Sorry for late response. I'm currently working on 10 different games atm sigh..
Yes I have the game for XB1 played through the game on insanity (or hardest mode... ( I think its called insanity ). As I was saying about there being no battery power. I was referring that you have to actually collect batteries through the game because each one last like 2 minutes when using IR mode. WTF kind of camera eats a battery like that? Its no fun or scary or challenging It's just annoying.
Second: The enemy's are all basicly the same and all you have to do is wait and kind of learn there patrol patterns to get past them.
Third: the main character is pathetic... he's brave enough to brake into a mental asylum, but not smart enough to bring a weapon or any kind of defense... or use weapons from the environment ... yeah... that makes sense.

If you like the game that's fine! This is just my opinion and why I did not like it. I don't care if I am in the minority. The game is just another cookie cutter indie clone of like a million other indie games.

I think silent hill could be a scary first person game, but I love old school 3rd person tank controls. for me that's real survival horror. I think the first person stuff was just for the P.T demo.

Well... You're not supposed to walk around with the camera on night vision mode the entire time.

Also, the main character Miles is under the impression that the asylum is fully functional. He's heading there due to correspondence he received from someone there, so of course he doesn't come prepared to go to war, because why would he?

Granted, it's stupid that he goes out of his way to get inside, as no rational human being would try to get into a creepy asylum if the front door is locked.. But it's a videogame. I mean, if we're going to criticize Miles for going inside, then we can criticize Heather for going back into the mall in SH3. I mean, how hard is it to climb over a van that's blocking your path in an alley?

Lastly, I don't mind if folks don't like it. I was just arguing that the enemies are more of a challenge later on in the game.

[clips]

Imagine if there is a button for switching back and forth between 1st and 3rd, like in The Elder Scrolls, and Kojima messes with that mechanic as part of the game. For instance, you need to switch to FP in order to properly examine something, and when you switch back, there's something standing right behind you! Or, at one point in the game, you get stuck in one of the views, and can't switch back for a time. Or, in one instance, as soon as
you go to FP, there's something right in your face!

I think that's a good solution. And like Spring said, more games should totally do that... that way everyone is happy.

My only concern is that I don't want them to be lazy about designing 3rd person mode. Skyrim is really lazy about it, with 3rd person mode just feeling tacked on. I want them to put some work into doing lots of cinematic camera angles for 3rd person mode. A game like Fatal Frame is able to pull this off, and yet still allows you to switch to first person mode at any time.

Also, there would likely have to be separate control schemes for 3rd and 1st person mode. For 3rd person mode, I would like the option of analog control over the character. Fatal Frame sort of gives you a blend of analog and tank controls, in that there is a dedicated run button for making the character run forward... something like that would be nice. On the other hand, first person games always use tank controls with strafing added on. I think they should probably leave the strafing out, at least, just for consistency.

I agree..if they have the option to flip between modes, i hope they put some effort into giving us a good 3rd person perspective...not too close and not too far away, but i just think that they would have to work a bit more with the 3rd person option because of how you engage in combat.

You have to adjust the camera yet again for melee attacks, because melee attacks from behind the shoulder won't work and will come off being an awkward gaming mechanic. They would have to make a camera adjustment for that as well. SH has always been in 3rd person, but i'm sure the reaction to P.T. is making them think of other options, so hopefully there will be a nice balance of the two modes.

[Matt S]

As another member had said, and I think this is what I consider 'ideal' myself, given how immersive the trailer and P.T. was:

outside parts = 3rd person
Inside parts = first person
need to zoom in on an object = zoom 1st person

If Kojima decides to go full first person, I will be seriously ok with that. I don't know if P.T. would have been as freaky in 3rd person

[dias17se]

The metal gear solid 2 mechanic between walking around in 3rd person and first person when pushing r1 to examine stuff would work really good imho.

[Tillerman]

You have to adjust the camera yet again for melee attacks, because melee attacks from behind the shoulder won't work and will come off being an awkward gaming mechanic. They would have to make a camera adjustment for that as well. SH has always been in 3rd person, but i'm sure the reaction to P.T. is making them think of other options, so hopefully there will be a nice balance of the two modes.

Combat is another thing that makes switching between 1st and 3rd person tricky. What works in third person tends to not work in first person as well. You need different controls and different mechanics for the different viewpoints. For example, look at Fatal Frame... combat has to all be done in 1st person. If they allowed you to do combat in 3rd person, it wouldn't work, because you couldn't see where you're aiming... so you'd need some sort of lock on system. But a lock-on system would totally invalidate the mechanics of the normal camera obscura combat, where it's all about aiming.

If they're going to have forced perspectives for certain sections, like 3rd for outdoors and 1st for indoors, then I really hope that all the combat is through guns, and no melee combat. I've always found melee combat in 1st person to be extremely awkward, and I would hate to be forced into that awkwardness. I also would prefer to have some sort of soft lock-on, which is necessary for combat in 3rd person mode when there are dynamic camera angles. Having a lock-on in first person would be wierd, but it worked well for Metroid Prime so maybe they could do it.

If you start to think about all these different mechanics and control problems with switching viewpoints, it becomes obvious why a simple viewpoint toggle is not the norm. Or if there is a toggle, like in Skyrim, it tends to come from sacrificing mechanics in order to make it work... Skyrim has no dynamic camera angles and no evasive moves of any kind (because evasive manuevers like dodges and rolls don't really work well in first person.) There's a hack to allow Dark Souls to be played in first person mode, and it makes the game totally unplayable with all the moving around you do.

[Haoie]

Opposed to it. I didn't like the 1st person views in SH4 either!

[dias17se]

You have to adjust the camera yet again for melee attacks, because melee attacks from behind the shoulder won't work and will come off being an awkward gaming mechanic. They would have to make a camera adjustment for that as well. SH has always been in 3rd person, but i'm sure the reaction to P.T. is making them think of other options, so hopefully there will be a nice balance of the two modes.

Combat is another thing that makes switching between 1st and 3rd person tricky. What works in third person tends to not work in first person as well. You need different controls and different mechanics for the different viewpoints. For example, look at Fatal Frame... combat has to all be done in 1st person. If they allowed you to do combat in 3rd person, it wouldn't work, because you couldn't see where you're aiming... so you'd need some sort of lock on system. But a lock-on system would totally invalidate the mechanics of the normal camera obscura combat, where it's all about aiming.

If they're going to have forced perspectives for certain sections, like 3rd for outdoors and 1st for indoors, then I really hope that all the combat is through guns, and no melee combat. I've always found melee combat in 1st person to be extremely awkward, and I would hate to be forced into that awkwardness. I also would prefer to have some sort of soft lock-on, which is necessary for combat in 3rd person mode when there are dynamic camera angles. Having a lock-on in first person would be wierd, but it worked well for Metroid Prime so maybe they could do it.

If you start to think about all these different mechanics and control problems with switching viewpoints, it becomes obvious why a simple viewpoint toggle is not the norm. Or if there is a toggle, like in Skyrim, it tends to come from sacrificing mechanics in order to make it work... Skyrim has no dynamic camera angles and no evasive moves of any kind (because evasive manuevers like dodges and rolls don't really work well in first person.) There's a hack to allow Dark Souls to be played in first person mode, and it makes the game totally unplayable with all the moving around you do.

What about Siren Blood Curse ? I think there surely are exceptions to your certainly valid points and that is one. It could surely even be more polished than that. Homecoming also had some great controls.

[HeresJohnny]

With first person there is no psychological way to "run away." The camera represents your eyes which creates a slightly more immersive experience. third person can be cool because you can see the reaction to outside events that the character is experiencing. To achieve a similar effect with first person they have to emphasize audio coming from the character even little details like eyelids. I think both FS and TP have strengths.

[JamesInWater]

I would like a bit of both, 1st person allows a much greater ability to inspect the enviroment but I would like a majority of the gameplay to be in 3rd person, just with the ability to go into 1st person if you see something cool/creepy.

[Its Gone Now]

Dead Island is a good example of how first person can be used in a horror game, In fact while that game is far from perfect I don't think I would have enjoyed it half as much in third person.

Condemned 2 also worked well in first person, while it wouldn't have been good in third. (I know not everyone liked this game but I thoroughly enjoyed most of it).

But Silent Hill is not a first person game and I really don't think they would dare make an exclusively first person SH. I'm not saying it could never work but it wouldn't be very well received.

And there really wouldn't be much point in recruiting Norman Reedus if we wouldn't even know it was him (unless they planned on having hundreds of mirrors everywhere.)

And I'm not convinced that the Elder Scrolls/Fallout system would work very well in SH.

Having said that, the fact that you could go into a first person view to look around in homecoming REALLY made me wish you could walk around while in that view.

[supperhater]

I have nothing against first person in general for horror games, but really think it'd be a bad idea to make a Silent Hill game that was completely in first person.

Think of something like TLOU - I really doubt the player could have been as engrossed in the story/attached to the characters if it were in first person, and I imagine Kojima will want the story in this game to be good/emotionally involving.

I really doubt he would just flat out say "It's in third person" at this early stage, even if he fully plans for it to be. Discussion of the game is a good thing so leaving it open leads people to talk more about it etc than if he just confirmed one way or another what the perspective will be.

I think a mix of both like in SH4 could work, if it was like 70% third person and 30% first person maybe. Being able to switch back and forth between the two could be cool I guess though I haven't seen that implemented extremely well in other games and usually one of the perspectives feels secondary to the other imo.

Either way I'm excited as fuck for this game and am still somewhat in disbelief that it's even happening.

[Its Gone Now]

Either way I'm excited as fuck for this game and am still somewhat in disbelief that it's even happening.

Me too haterman, I recently had a Baby Boy and have been incredibly busy, I didn't find out about P.T. (the new FUCKING Silent Hill that I also thought may never happen with state of things), untill about three weeks ago!!!

We should all be ecstatic that not only is there a new SH coming, it has the potential to be quite fantastic.

Happ happ happy FUCKING days people.

Sorry about the language there, BUT FUCK IT SILENT HILL IS BACK

[supperhater]

Either way I'm excited as fuck for this game and am still somewhat in disbelief that it's even happening.

Me too haterman, I recently had a Baby Boy and have been incredibly busy, I didn't find out about P.T. (the new FUCKING Silent Hill that I also thought may never happen with state of things), untill about three weeks ago!!!

We should all be ecstatic that not only is there a new SH coming, it has the potential to be quite fantastic.

Happ happ happy FUCKING days people.

Sorry about the language there, BUT FUCK IT SILENT HILL IS BACK

Haha

Congrats on the baby!!

I finally got to play PT for the first time a couple of days ago (bought a PS4 a month ago but only have a USB modem at home so need to bring console to parent's house to download anything).

At first I was almost a bit underwhelmed by how scary it was after reading all the impressions, but of course the fact I'd seen playthroughs and stuff had something to do with that. I didn't play it for that long but I think now that part of it was that I was actually more unnerved by it than I'd like to admit. Like when I first rented Silent Hill 3, years before I was into the series... I didn't even make it out of Lakeside amusement park/the opening dream sequence and kind of told myself it's cos the game sucked, when really my brain just couldn't handle the terr0rz.

I had also gotten into Siren: Blood Curse about a week ago and found that a scarier game than 99% of horror games from the last few years, on the level of SH1-4 at times... but anyway I went back to PT today (and used headphones this time) and damn, it really is quite scary. It messed with me in a really insidious way and it's one of the only times I really kind of wanted to stop playing and had to urge myself to stick with it for a few more minutes. Was playing during the day too whereas I played at night the first time.

The part that I'm assuming is the only "jump scare" in the whole thing actually genuinely frightened me even though I was expecting it. I don't think that something that is essentially a jump scare has ever scared me on that deep a level before, to where it really got under my skin and wasn't just a momentary shock. I felt almost mildly traumatized, in a good way if that's possible...

I still don't want SH in first person or to be that much like PT in general (which it probably won't be) but it's pretty cool for what it is.

[Its Gone Now]

Haha

Congrats on the baby!!

Thanks dude, really enjoying being a Dad.

Glad you got into Siren Blood Curse, with it being episodic download to start with it got nowhere near the attention it deserved, super creep at times.

Yeah P.T does sound awesome and I've seen a lot of vids, it will be the first thing I download when I get my mitts on PS4.

The worst thing about not having internet is not being able to download updates/patches etc. I had to sit on the Bus for an hour to go to a friends to patch Skyrim, worth it though, got connection now thankfully.

[HeresJohnny]

Either way I'm excited as fuck for this game and am still somewhat in disbelief that it's even happening.

Me too haterman, I recently had a Baby Boy and have been incredibly busy, I didn't find out about P.T. (the new FUCKING Silent Hill that I also thought may never happen with state of things), untill about three weeks ago!!!

We should all be ecstatic that not only is there a new SH coming, it has the potential to be quite fantastic.

Happ happ happy FUCKING days people.

Sorry about the language there, BUT FUCK IT SILENT HILL IS BACK

I 2nd that, Congrats on the fatherhood!