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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hills cancelled
     
         
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Missing since: 24 Dec 2003
Notes left: 450
Last seen at: Happy Burger
Alexius Corvinus wrote:
Tango Gameworks developed the Evil Within. I believe it was directed by Shinji Mikami.

@Matt S

Yeah I really like the cluster of houses. It's like something straight out of my day dreams. I hope Ashen Falls turns out well. I also agree that Kojima and co should make a spiritual successor to Silent Hill(s). I don't think he will go with Kickstarter. With his name recognition alone, a 3rd party publisher might throw money at him.



I can see Kojima laying low for a bit; if his separate w Konami happened fast, it may take him a little to see what offers are out there, once the dust settles.

And he can absolutely do his own spiritual successor.........given how pumped fans were to see his version 'of shit their pants' its got to be on his radar.

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RIP Silent Hills


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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hills cancelled
     
         
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Missing since: 20 Jul 2004
Notes left: 1538
Last seen at: VA
Mephisto wrote:
Indeed they were, pal. I just thought the gameplay was much, much better. It actually felt like a Castlevania. Even on 3D. The first Lords of Shadow came close but there's something that I can't really put my finger on it.

If you want a 3D Castlevania to succeed then FromSoftware as developers would be a good bet.


We'll just have to agree to disagree on LoS. I agree with your opinion regarding the earlier 3D games feeling "more like a Castlevania game," but I really liked Cox's take on Castlevania with Lords of Shadow much more. Also, sometimes games have to evolve into something new/different, which is why I enjoyed LoS so much. This is also why I'm so bummed about Kojima not being involved with Silent Hills anymore.

I agree, FromSoftware would be my choice.

Lastly, I forget who posted quotes about Konami going mainly into mobile gaming - either way, thanks. I had just read that article on IGN before coming here. Hopefully those that enjoy mobile/portable gaming will receive quality SH titles from here on out.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hills cancelled
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Feb 2008
Notes left: 310
Last seen at: A physiatric ward
Mephisto wrote:
Skele wrote:
I like Lords of Shadow more than both games you mentioned. Even though I really liked Lament of Innocence, it wasn't 2D, and neither was Curse of Darkness. They were also both on Playstation.

Indeed they were, pal. I just thought the gameplay was much, much better. It actually felt like a Castlevania. Even on 3D. The first Lords of Shadow came close but there's something that I can't really put my finger on it.

If you want a 3D Castlevania to succeed then FromSoftware as developers would be a good bet.

Quote:
In regard to the exclusives, how was I to know that these RE games wouldn't be exclusive forever? I don't really regret buying Gamecube for the RE exclusives. My disappointment came from the console's lifespan, and it's disappointing game library (much like the Wii, and Wii U's). This is why I think Nintendo sucks.

Ah, now that you explained things are much better. It just seemed that you were so mad just because of those RE games. At least to me it did.

I feel you. Microsoft's Xbox 360 is the same shit. They did had a decent library but sold all the games to everyone. Now all that's left is Halo, Gears of War and Forza.

Quote:
You seem to be bitching a little more than me, and what's sad is you're not even a fan of Nintendo yourself.. It simply makes it even more mindboggling for why you decided to lecture me.

Nah. I just thought everything you said was just vague. And what? By saying that I'm not really a fan I'm not saying that I hate the company. I just think they're like... Whatever, know what I mean?

Quote:
Also, I disagree with your assumption that console owners aren't interested in Metroidvania's anymore. Have you not noticed how many of those games are being created for, bought, and praised by console gamers?

I was actually aiming for the publishers with that last part of my post. There's always a retro player available but the big companies don't think it's worth their time to go ahead and order a retail version. I applaud Atlus for releasing Dragon's Crown as a retail title but that game was just lame. Art style and soundtrack = amazing. Gameplay = Grind. Grind. Grind. Leave that shit for the MMO's...

@Seal: You thought that Bethesda was the developer behind TEW, pretty much like Mantorok. Send a thanks to Alexius for clening up all the mess behind our last posts. :lol:

But seriously. It's Shinji Mikami, man. He knows horror. The first Resident Evil's pretty much started all that crap. With the tank controls, fixed camera angles, eerie atmosphere, etc. Then came Silent Hill and upgraded it. Mikami is capable of working on a SH title.

Oh i was well aware bethesda only published the game, and i'm almost certain that was the reason it was rush released unfinished in a technical mess. I agree that Shinji Mikami is more than capable of making a fine sh game, preferably away from bethesda where they have time to finish it and on an engine suited to the game.

_________________
Who's the man? Me!!


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hills cancelled

Missing since: 16 Aug 2014
Notes left: 501
Here is Del Toro's opinion on the cancellation:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/05/15/ ... uldve-been

If they really want to make a Silent Hill horror game, why not collaborate and make their own horror game series with its own mythos if they can't get Konami to license the SH name to Kojima? I'm sure they could find a publisher like Sony, Square-Enix, etc that could help fund the project.

If I recall correctly, del Toro owns the rights to inSANE? That was supposed to be the THQ horror game.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hills cancelled

Missing since: 04 Mar 2007
Notes left: 3379
As Del Toro's interview shows, none of this was some planned 'restructuring' on Konami's part. Shit went down and headless chickens are running all over the place.

Konami even asked a journalist at the MGSV preview event to delete an innocuous tweet. The hell are they so scared of?
https://twitter.com/Tanzen/status/599133040137240576
http://www.reddit.com/r/metalgearsolid/ ... esence_in/

The big problem with Del Toro and Kojima going with another studio right now is that, if Konami wanted to be complete dicks, wait until Kojima and Del Toro and some publisher signed a deal and then launch a lawsuit claiming they own the rights to certain 'ideas' put on a contract before.

For legal reasons and risk, no publisher will work with Del Toro and Kojima on such a specific product until the dust settles and we know what precisely was signed on or discussed under Konami's umbrella. Working this out is going to take some time.

Best course of action is that as Del Toro says the peitition works and Konami recontracts Kojima and KojiPro and Del Toro to make Silent Hills. But of course this whole thing is going to bring delays and Del Toro and Reedus have busy schedules.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hills cancelled
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Oct 2011
Notes left: 565
Last seen at: Phoenix
Agent of God wrote:
Quote:
Mobile is where the future of gaming lies.


:lol: They deserve to crash and burn in the gaming industry if they really believe that. Then again, if all companies go forward with that kind of thinking, the videogame art medium will take a big step backwards.
Just shut up already, Konami.


My only grudge against mobile is that it tends to mess up all things non-mobile. A number of simple web sites became slow as molasses as they went crazy restructuring them for mobiles.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hills cancelled

Missing since: 16 Aug 2014
Notes left: 501
jdnation wrote:
As Del Toro's interview shows, none of this was some planned 'restructuring' on Konami's part. Shit went down and headless chickens are running all over the place.

Konami even asked a journalist at the MGSV preview event to delete an innocuous tweet. The hell are they so scared of?
https://twitter.com/Tanzen/status/599133040137240576
http://www.reddit.com/r/metalgearsolid/ ... esence_in/

The big problem with Del Toro and Kojima going with another studio right now is that, if Konami wanted to be complete dicks, wait until Kojima and Del Toro and some publisher signed a deal and then launch a lawsuit claiming they own the rights to certain 'ideas' put on a contract before.

For legal reasons and risk, no publisher will work with Del Toro and Kojima on such a specific product until the dust settles and we know what precisely was signed on or discussed under Konami's umbrella. Working this out is going to take some time.

Best course of action is that as Del Toro says the peitition works and Konami recontracts Kojima and KojiPro and Del Toro to make Silent Hills. But of course this whole thing is going to bring delays and Del Toro and Reedus have busy schedules.


Well, Konami could claim copyright ownership to the expression of ideas, not general ideas in and of themselves. Still, Kojima would probably avoid all of the ideas he showed his hand on when under Konami's umbrella and start fresh. Not only that, but wouldn't it be possible for Konami to issue a non compete clause on Kojima for an x amount of time after separation?


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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hills cancelled
     
         
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Missing since: 10 Oct 2008
Notes left: 901
I mean I don't know Japanese law but non-compete clauses are usually for those who sell their businesses to another and that person doesn't want the seller to re-enter the field and start competing. I don't think that would apply to Kojima and pro who are essentially being politely fired.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hills cancelled
     
         
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Missing since: 06 Mar 2008
Notes left: 1482
Last seen at: Colonia Claudia Ara Agrippinensium
I don't understand Konami. They are my most hated game company right now, before it used to be EA.

Why can't these d***heads get their shit together and make wise business decisions? We live in a modern open world where even god damn Sony could make a deal with Marvel to include Spider-Man in their MCU movies....

_________________
I EAT GALAXIES FOR BREAKFAST.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hills cancelled

Missing since: 04 Mar 2007
Notes left: 3379
At this point we do not know all the details, but anyone looking to hire Kojima and Del Toro for another horror title will indeed want to get those legal details sorted out as to who controls what. Things could get messy...

The easiest solution is for someone like Sony to collaborate with Konami for Silent Hill, much like the deal Nintendo has with Tecmo for Fatal Frame.

The Nintendo/Fatal Frame situation is the best course of action -

Tecmo holds the IP, Nintendo has the publishing rights, and Grasshopper Manufacture developed Fatal Frame 0.

Similarily while Konami is still the IP holder, Sony could publish, and a hypothetical new Kojima Productions could develop Silent Hills.

This way there's no need to buy up rights, no conflict of intellectual theft accusations, Sony takes on the risk, Konami cashes a cheque, Kojima and Del Toro get to work together.

But how things turn out will be for the future to decide. Konami would slap Kojima with a non-compete agreement, but these are usually for highly technical staff and technology matters, so I doubt it will touch Kojima on a creative aspect.

Unfortunately what happens to FOX Engine and whether a hypothetical new Kojima Productions can use it is up in the air, but assuming the imaginary best case scenario occurs, there's no reason why Konami would refuse to allow this.

Even if Konami doesn't, Sony themselves would lend staff and assets and technology to Kojima as they do in other collaborative efforts. Just as Sony has done with Indies, they could help Kojima build a new studio as 2nd party by having Kojima commit to a number of exclusive titles.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hills cancelled
     
         
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Missing since: 10 Oct 2008
Notes left: 901
Jumping into the mobile market isn't a bad business decision if you want to be primarily focused on Japan. Internationally it really only works if you want to make the next Angry Birds or Clash of Clans. That's getting harder to do though and it's less stable in the long term.

The mobile market is still in that awkward growth phase that other gaming was decades ago. It'll be here long term but ultimately certain types of games don't work on mobile devices. Same way my favorite games couldn't currently work on consoles or other mediums. I'm primarily a PC gamer. I know people make comparisons but making Skyrim on PC and console is quite a bit different than making Skyrim on a mobile device.

I imagine Konami will continue making console games, just not mega big ones and they'll likely license them out on a contractual basis like they've been doing a bit recently. I can safely say one thing though, they certainly noticed all the comments they've been getting about Silent Hills. They're commenting on and they're asking Youtube to take down even critic videos that are coming from across the ocean. I imagine they'll make the game at some point in some form, but they'd have to stoop really low to make every entry of Silent Hill like book of memories. I don't mind book of memories but I like it as an entry of the Silent Hill series, not AS the Silent Hill series.

As for Kojima having a non-compete clause, he at this point would have had to have had it already in his contract, he's not likely to sign one now. That's essentially like getting fired and being unable to find work. Those clauses are typically designed to take effect only after the employee decides to leave, not when getting fired.


Last edited by Mantorok on 18 May 2015, edited 1 time in total.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hills cancelled

Missing since: 04 Mar 2007
Notes left: 3379
Either way, it doesn't even seem like Konami is even interested in competing in the same area that Kojima wants to stay in, so it's of little consequence.

Some more insight on where Konami is heading:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-05-14-konami
- Not completely abandoning consoles, just physical retail.
- Looks like the plan is one product across mobile/console/arcade.
- So mobile will be the lead platform and this will be ported to console/arcade.
- Leave physical good altogether for complete digital 'intangible' things (including card games for example).
- More monetization and an 'additional charges model.'
- "know what areas to change or what prices to raise in order to raise user retention, user monetisation, our KPIs."
- See creative roles as being problematic for management positions moving forward.
- Want to divide creative and management workforce to be two separate areas.
- Think this division will be more effective so each focuses on only that one area.
- Management will ultimately decide where the company goes and does as they are supposedly better at seeing changing trends and getting on board.
- Creatives are largely only to obey these directives from management but hopefully both can work together on this new front.


The last portion in particular tells us why they'd oust Kojima, given that he held both creative and management roles and they wanted to split them up.


Funny pic:
http://www.imbarkus.com/images/SilentVille.jpg


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hills cancelled
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Oct 2011
Notes left: 565
Last seen at: Phoenix
I know I'm coming up on 20 years behind the times, but I don't understand how anyone can take game played on an Ipad seriously.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hills cancelled
     
         
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Missing since: 24 Dec 2003
Notes left: 450
Last seen at: Happy Burger
tbonesays wrote:
I know I'm coming up on 20 years behind the times, but I don't understand how anyone can take game played on an Ipad seriously.


Ipad is ok, but on a cell phone? NOPE

_________________
RIP Silent Hills


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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hills cancelled
     
         
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Missing since: 10 Oct 2008
Notes left: 901
tbonesays wrote:
I know I'm coming up on 20 years behind the times, but I don't understand how anyone can take game played on an Ipad seriously.


Some games are pretty decent on iPad like Baldur's Gate EE but those are PC ports and those games just happen to translate well, even then though, I only played it on my PC. In 99% of cases though I'd rather have a migraine than play on a tablet. It's mostly for people who like Clash of Clans or games like that. I couldn't take a major release of a series seriously on a tablet either. Playing a game on a iPhone is just ridiculous to me, the touchscreen limits it as does the amazingly small screen.


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SHH Cult Subscriber
SHH Cult Subscriber
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hills cancelled
     
         
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Missing since: 03 Jan 2005
Notes left: 4693
Last seen at: Colorado
jdnation wrote:
- Not completely abandoning consoles, just physical retail.
- Looks like the plan is one product across mobile/console/arcade.
- So mobile will be the lead platform and this will be ported to console/arcade.
- Leave physical good altogether for complete digital 'intangible' things (including card games for example).one area.

Aw man. I'm all about owning physical copies of my games. And this is not the future I wanted for SH.

_________________
Hunting the abyss lord . . . Only one will stay alive!
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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hills cancelled
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
Notes left: 7998
^ Word. At least you can sell, or trade, the copy if you get bored/it sucks.

With digital? What am I supposed to do with digital since there's no refunds? Just delete it? Fuck that.

That's why you MUST release demos for all kinds of digital crap. And we all know that it just doesn't happen.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hills cancelled
     
         
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Missing since: 10 Oct 2008
Notes left: 901
I learned from being more of a PC gamer these days. Physical copies are just a dead thing.

I still prefer having the physical copy for console games, but who knows how long that is going to last. I still love my old collection of PS1, N64, and PS2 games. It's a shame that's the way it went, but it saves the developers money so they do it.

They also just about hit 150,000 signatures. That's really impressive.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hills cancelled
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2897
I honestly never really missed the physical copy for Blood Curse. Just one less thing taking up space in my room.

_________________
Screenplay Archaeology Podcast - FUKUNAGA IT EPISODE IS UP!


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hills cancelled

Missing since: 04 Mar 2007
Notes left: 3379
Physical still has many benefits Digital doesn't. Not because Digital couldn't. But because Digital won't, because understandably, companies are scared of abuse.

I don't buy that many titles, so physical stuff taking up space game-wise doesn't really effect me much. But I'd always prefer it.

P.T. getting taken offline is a good example why. If I had it on disc I could always reinstall it. Granted P.T. was a free thing so it doesn't enter the complicated area of stuff you've paid for. But in this day and age it's a worrying concern.

Eventually I suspect we'll be moving to a model where there will no longer be any physical or digital downloading. The future is streaming, episodic and a subscription-based model with F2P options. You will own nothing. Everything will be server-side. On the plus side there'd be no need to upgrade hardware as much since it'd be a streaming box, outside of possible new controller/interactive experiences. Though all this is a very long way out, but we're seeing baby steps in this space already.



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