Hearts of Ten "sinners"? (spoilers aplenty for all

Post by **tinydancer461905** » 26 Jun 2009

All rite now. I'm new here and not sure if this was covered by another thread. ok. Wally had to gather the hearts of ten sinners for the first part of the 21 Sacraments. A bunch were in fact sinners in the way that they did bad things like drugs and were mean to people. But what about the Locaine twins and the guy who Walter killed with a golf club and several others? What did they do to be considered sinners and why did he choose them? Plus if they really weren't sinners wouldn't Walter feel guilty and have his own Pyramid Head per se?

Post by **alone in the town** » 26 Jun 2009

Pyramid Head is not a part of some standard-issue Silent Hill package deal.

It's important to note that he does feel guilt for killing the Locane twins. It factors prominently on future events.

Post by **tinydancer461905** » 26 Jun 2009

Well the reason I ask is due to SH 5 when

PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:

PH comes because of the founders descendents (more specifically Adam) guilt for killing their children.

now that doesn't explain if some of the people besides the Locaine twins that really aren't sinners and why he chose them. I had to make it a lil bit less vague. Lol

Post by **alone in the town** » 26 Jun 2009

I can't do much to help you there, unfortunately. I still haven't played Homecoming.

Post by **tinydancer461905** » 26 Jun 2009

My bad. I didn't know how to do the spoiler thing. Well I just fucked it up for you. Don't read the spoiler it gives away more. Lol

Post by **The Adversary** » 26 Jun 2009

Valtiel, the holy judge, was inserted into Walter's subconsciousness so any person Walter elected to kill was considered a "sinner." Walter happened to choose people he vaguely knew and didn't like.

Post by **alone in the town** » 26 Jun 2009

tinydancer461905 wrote:My bad. I didn't know how to do the spoiler thing. Well I just fucked it up for you. Don't read the spoiler it gives away more. Lol

Don't worry about it. I've been exposed to much of the story already. There's not much I can do about it.

Post by **tinydancer461905** » 26 Jun 2009

MMY wrote:Valtiel, the holy judge, was inserted into Walter's subconsciousness so any person Walter elected to kill was considered a "sinner." Walter happened to choose people he vaguely knew and didn't like.

Ok. Plausible. But as was said earlier, Walter does in fact feel guilt for killing children. Wouldn't it manifest into something more than the retarded twin ghosts? Ya know like Pyramid Head? Isn't he called by one's guilty conscience?

Post by **alone in the town** » 26 Jun 2009

alone in the town wrote:Pyramid Head is not a part of some standard-issue Silent Hill package deal.

Post by **tinydancer461905** » 26 Jun 2009

Only if the person feels guilt for something.

SH 0 = Haven't played yet. lol

SH 1 = Harry looking for his daughter = No PH

SH 2 =

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James killed his wife because she was a burden.

= PH

SH 3 = Cheryl comes back to SH as Heather after being followed by The Order = No PH

SH 4 = Walter kills 21 people to resurrect his "Mother" including two children and the only person who was ever nice to him (Depending on ending) = No PH?

SH 5 =

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Adam mistreated his older son so he could sacrifice him and doesn't have the balls to kill him, making the other parents' sacrifices meaningless.

= PH

Post by **AgentX7k** » 26 Jun 2009

Well if PH was there we wouldn't see him, it's Walters issue, nothing to do with Henry. Well then neither was any of it but still PH doesn't *have* to make an appearance to us for him to be involved.

Also as I understand it's not like PH is a 'being', just another physical manifestation of something. The guilt taking on that particular form was specific to those people. Walter's guilt is different and took this form. He isn't a designated punisher.

Post by **alone in the town** » 26 Jun 2009

There are several Silent Hill participants wracked by guilt and personal demons who never encounter the red pyramid thing.

Pyramid Head is a creature with deep meaning exclusively to James. By all accounts, the r.p.t.s' appearance in Homecoming is blatant fan-fellatio and lacking almost all of the rich subtext attributed to its appearance in Silent Hill 2.

Post by **tinydancer461905** » 26 Jun 2009

AgentX7k wrote: Walter's guilt is different and took this form. He isn't a designated punisher.

According to MMY Valtiel is inside of Walter (ewww... but i don't know any other way to put it lol) and according to one of the Order's Sects Valtiel does dole punishment. So if he's possessing Walter (in a way) then it would make Walter a designated punisher?

Post by **Whispered-Rain** » 26 Jun 2009

tinydancer461905 wrote:
AgentX7k wrote: Walter's guilt is different and took this form. He isn't a designated punisher.
According to MMY Valtiel is inside of Walter (ewww... but i don't know any other way to put it lol) and according to one of the Order's Sects Valtiel does dole punishment. So if he's possessing Walter (in a way) then it would make Walter a designated punisher?

I can't really say much with certainty because I never finished SH4, but in considering what you're saying, I don't think that Valtiel possesing Walter would make him a designated punisher. Even with Valtiel possesing Walter it doesn't make Walter Valtiel, if that makes sense. Valtiel is ultimatly the designated punisher and would only be guiding Walter because he's possesing him. I could be totally wrong though, my understanding of SH4 is limited since I never played it through.

Also on the subject of pyramid head...

I can buy that pyramid head was only put into homecoming for fan reasons like alone in the town said,
but isn't it plausible that Alex wanted to be punished, like James, for what happened to Joshua? So pyramid head was
there for that very purpose? I haven't gotten the PH ending for homecoming yet, but from what I understand of what happens, that ending could represent Alex not being able to forgive himself for what happened.
What happens to Adam could also be because Adam feels the need to be punished for what he did or didn't do.
I don't think that any of the other members of the order specifically saw pyramid head, perhaps because they didn't actually want to be punished. I think some of them genuinly felt guilty, but I think
they were fearful and didn't actually want to have to pay for their sins, which you kind of get from Fitch saying he goes to

PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:

"this place" to cut out the sin in hell descent, and he brings his daughter dolls as if trying to pay back his sins

I don't claim for that to be right, it's just a theory, or opinion really.

Post by **tinydancer461905** » 26 Jun 2009

I always thought the children/monster versions of the sacrificed children became their parent's punishers. As soon as the parent saw their child's belonging, their guilt spiked with the ending result of the four bosses. Sepulcher-Joey's watch Scarlet-Scarlet's doll Asphyxia-Nora's locket and Amnion-Josh's ring. (Actually it was more of Alex finally remembering what happened spiked the guilt and ended up calling Amnion)

Adam felt guilt for having failed to sacrifice Alex after the way he treated him and in the end he failed as a father and the town leader, therefor he unknowingly"called" out to PH through his own guilt and he sliced his ass. I don't think PH came for Alex because A) PH completely disreguarded him B) He didn't remember the accident ever happening. There is a huge difference between James and Alex at this point because James killed his wife purposely and erased her from his memory for the past 3 years while what happened to Josh was an accident and Alex's mind refused to believe Josh was dead and Alex believed that he could save him.

Lol this is completely off topic[/spoiler]

Website · Post by **angelofROOM302** » 26 Jun 2009

NOOOOO
My poor Homecoming has been spoiled for me!

But this link here talks about the twin victims if it helps any; http://silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=9007

Post by **tinydancer461905** » 26 Jun 2009

Oh shit! Lol. I meant to put a spoiler thing on there sorry.

Post by **Jonipoon** » 30 Jun 2009

>So if he's possessing Walter then it would make Walter a designated punisher?
It doesn't make him anything. Walter isn't a punisher or anything like that.

Whispered-Rain and tinydancer461905 still has huge unmarked spoilers for Homecoming on the previous page.

>fan-fellatio
Your wordplays always make me smile, alone in the town.

Post by **tinydancer461905** » 13 Jul 2009

Well I did put that there were spoilers not just for game 4. Just limited space for title lol.

Post by **Syko** » 24 Jul 2009

But wasn't Pyramid Head created as a kind of bed-time story to scare the children (so says the game somewhere I think)