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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Various questions (Spoliers)
     
         
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Missing since: 04 May 2006
Notes left: 474
Last seen at: MA
I've been trying to see if any other threads were made about what I'm about to ask and I couldn't find any. Unless these things were answered in other threads. =/


I'm still so confused about the story. In the very beginning of the game when it is showing the text talking about Henry, it says that it was 2 years ago since he moved in. A few days ago he couldn't leave room 302. The man that lived there after Walter's parents was Joseph. Eileen said that Joseph disappeared 6 months before Henry moved in. My question is are you playing as Joseph in the beginning? It doesn't seem like it because the apartment is set up like Henry's, but of course possessed. He looks around and comments on things saying that he didn't know what they were or that he thought he had some other item in their place. I also wonder about the condition on the apartment. Why is it so messed up? Did Joseph have to deal with the same hauntings as Henry? When you visit the room 302 of the past you see that he had tons of holy candles all over the place. That's why I don't understand who you are actually playing in the beginning. It seems like maybe it takes place after Henry moved out, but then it would depend on what ending he got. Even the photo of Henry. Why is it there in the first place? The face on the wall?


I'm also wondering about Eileen getting possessed. Why does she in the first place? She is the 20th sacrament and all, but Henry is not affected by this. Did Walter cause this? I've seen videos of her fully possessed and she's saying things about her mommy and daddy and being scared. She can even hurt Henry just by being near her. Why does she feel she needs to help little Walter? The older Walter said that he used to know Eileen when he was younger, but when you see him as a child, Eileen doesn't recognize him. Why was she chosen to bear this burden? What is the meaning behind the possession and why only Eileen be affected? Why does she attack Henry? She can even become possessed even by fighting, I don't understand that.


I also wonder the reasoning behind the Wish House. When Eileen is reading the diaries, little Walter talks about reading well and going to the round cell. What is the purpose of this besides brainwashing? Does this have to do with the whole sacrificing the children idea like in Homecoming? The cult teaches the kids their religion, but why do they take them to the cell? Is that a punishment, but ended up being an accident when one man mentioned he couldn't get the doors open? Andrew said he worked at the Wish House, but he had no idea of what was really going on.


Last edited by SH3girl32 on 15 Aug 2009, edited 1 time in total.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 03 May 2009
Notes left: 302
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1-You're talking about the nightmare scene in the beginning I guess. Well, after that part we wake up as Henry, so it 'could' be a sort of revelation for him about what would happen to him next. (I mean after the hospital stage.) But I don't think we're actually controlling Joseph, because in that case (if Henry's nightmare would have been a hint by Joseph) then the house should have looked like Joseph's, with all the candles & stuff. I think we see Henry's photo in his house after the nightmare sequence as well. So why would a new resident (moving in after Henry) keep Henry's photo in his own house? In that case Henry should have found Joseph's photo somewhere too.
Joseph & Henry are the Giver & Receiver of wisdom respectively, so I think both of them underwent the hauntings, as Joseph gives hints about them in his red notes.

2-Eileen is supposed to be the body of (or the spirit) Walter's mother in the sacrament. So maybe Walter's possesing her to make her easy to accept her role as his mother. But if we look at the relationship between Walter & Eileen 'symbollically' I think it goes deeper. Walter was raised in a horrible situation in the wishhouse, so when he'd sneak out & go to the apartments I think he craved for kindness & caring. And little Eileen was the only person who showed him a little essense of caring by giving him her doll as a sign of friendship. So from the moment Walter sees her as his friend, supporter, keeper...& even mother! Remember he sees the physical aspect of the room as his mom, but as a child he doesn't know a woman really well, as he was always treated badly in the prison & the wishhouse. I think that's why he chooses her. But there's something tricky about Walter's behaviour. Before the hospital stage, Henry finds Eileen brutally beaten up by someone (probably adult Walter), & then there's the little Walter standing there & stopping the beating & actually saving Eileen. I think through the years Walter's developed a complex for the women in general; he blames his mom for abandoning him (he beats up Eileen) yet he longs for love & caring (he stops 'himself' from beating Eileen).

for the third question, I'm not sure what's behind the cult's motives.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
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I'm still so confused about the story. In the very beginning of the game when it is showing the text talking about Henry, it says that it was 2 years ago since he moved in. A few days ago he couldn't leave room 302. The man that lived there after Walter's parents was Joseph. Eileen said that Joseph disappeared 6 months before Henry moved in. My question is are you playing as Joseph in the beginning?


You're playing Henry dreaming he's Joseph.

Quote:
I also wonder about the condition on the apartment. Why is it so messed up? Did Joseph have to deal with the same hauntings as Henry? When you visit the room 302 of the past you see that he had tons of holy candles all over the place. That's why I don't understand who you are actually playing in the beginning. It seems like maybe it takes place after Henry moved out, but then it would depend on what ending he got. Even the photo of Henry. Why is it there in the first place? The face on the wall?


Yes, Joseph had to face the hauntings too, and apparently tried to purify them. The ghost coming out of the wall is probably how he died or something. The room becomes haunted because of Walter's influence.

Quote:
I'm also wondering about Eileen getting possessed. Why does she in the first place? She is the 20th sacrament and all, but Henry is not affected by this. Did Walter cause this? I've seen videos of her fully possessed and she's saying things about her mommy and daddy and being scared. She can even hurt Henry just by being near her. Why does she feel she needs to help little Walter?


Because little Walter interrupted Eileen's murder, so she's already "Half-way dead", being in a coma in the real world. Therefore, she's not as big of a priority, and Walter saves her for later. She's being possessed by Little Walter, who made a connection to her. She feels she needs to help little Walter because she's a kind person, and realizes he's suffering.

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The older Walter said that he used to know Eileen when he was younger, but when you see him as a child, Eileen doesn't recognize him. Why was she chosen to bear this burden? What is the meaning behind the possession and why only Eileen be affected? Why does she attack Henry? She can even become possessed even by fighting, I don't understand that.


Walter was in medical school when he met the little girl Eileen. You didn't take into account that Walter's been dead for about a decade, so his ghost isn't an accurate assessment of his age. She was chosen to be the Mother Reborn because she was the only person who was nice to him, and thus the only thing Walter cared about. In order to have his own world, Walter had to destroy all ties to the old world. Ties like Eileen. She attacks Henry because she woke up not realizing what was going on, so she freaked out. Her curse is increased just by being near the monsters, due to an aura they give off.

Quote:
I also wonder the reasoning behind the Wish House. When Eileen is reading the diaries, little Walter talks about reading well and going to the round cell. What is the purpose of this besides brainwashing?


The caretakers were abusive dicks.

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Does this have to do with the whole sacrificing the children idea like in Homecoming?


No.

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The cult teaches the kids their religion, but why do they take them to the cell? Is that a punishment, but ended up being an accident when one man mentioned he couldn't get the doors open? Andrew said he worked at the Wish House, but he had no idea of what was really going on.


Yea, it's punishment.

Quote:
2-Eileen is supposed to be the body of (or the spirit) Walter's mother in the sacrament. So maybe Walter's possesing her to make her easy to accept her role as his mother.


Wrong, see above.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 03 May 2009
Notes left: 302
Last seen at: Iran
AuraTwilight wrote:

Walter was in medical school when he met the little girl Eileen. You didn't take into account that Walter's been dead for about a decade, so his ghost isn't an accurate assessment of his age. She was chosen to be the Mother Reborn because she was the only person who was nice to him, and thus the only thing Walter cared about. In order to have his own world, Walter had to destroy all ties to the old world. Ties like Eileen. She attacks Henry because she woke up not realizing what was going on, so she freaked out. Her curse is increased just by being near the monsters, due to an aura they give off.

Quote:
2-Eileen is supposed to be the body of (or the spirit) Walter's mother in the sacrament. So maybe Walter's possesing her to make her easy to accept her role as his mother.


Wrong, see above.

I said the same thing, maybe different in words: Eileen is supposed to be the Mother reborn, what's wrong with that?
And monsters don't give off auras, the ghosts do.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 08 Apr 2008
Notes left: 3073
Last seen at: Wisconsin
I have a random question that I wish to squeeze into here. :mrgreen:
If Walter went to Medical School, how on earth did he have the money to go there?
He is an orphan and everything.

I'm just curious. :)

Oh and how did this happen?
Quote:
Because little Walter interrupted Eileen's murder, so she's already "Half-way dead", being in a coma in the real world. Therefore, she's not as big of a priority, and Walter saves her for later. She's being possessed by Little Walter, who made a connection to her.

How did young Walter interrupt Eileen's murder? And why does he posess her if he made a connection with her?

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
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>If Walter went to Medical School, how on earth did he have the money to go there?
He is an orphan and everything.

Maybe he earned this "study for free" thingy? there's a lot of that on several schools...

And about that nightmare at the start of the game, I always thought it was Joseph "looking into the future" or somethin'

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
I said the same thing, maybe different in words: Eileen is supposed to be the Mother reborn, what's wrong with that?


Because she's not literally becoming a replacement for Walter's mother or anything. The Mother Reborn is just a symbol for Walter's connection to the outside world. AKA, anything he loves outside of "Mother."

Quote:
And monsters don't give off auras, the ghosts do.


In regards to Henry, yes, but Eileen is harmed by monsters without being touched by them.

Quote:
If Walter went to Medical School, how on earth did he have the money to go there?
He is an orphan and everything.


Scholarships.

Quote:
How did young Walter interrupt Eileen's murder? And why does he posess her if he made a connection with her?


The two sides of Walter were one, shapeshifting spirit throughout the first part of the game, but when it came to Eileen, Walter's soul split, and the child form forced older Walter out. He's possessing her probably unconsciously, without meaning to.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 04 May 2006
Notes left: 474
Last seen at: MA
Thank you for the replies and answers. I'm afraid I've got more questions though.


When you find Walter's corpse in Henry's apartment, how is it that it's not decomposed yet? It must've been in there for years and it's still fine, except for the smell. He appears to have been posed a certain way as well. Who put him there and why? I'm assuming since that's his real self when he died. The one running around is different. He looks younger. People said they saw Walter around the apartment and even in room 302. Did Walter actually go in the room when Henry wasn't there? He must've been the one that chained it up from the inside.


Also a thought on the whole dreaming in another world. Henry always wakes up from every place he goes to in his bed. He finds a diary entry saying that if you carry too much of a burden in this world you'd regret it. If you died in Walter's world, you'd remain there forever. Cynthia thought she was dreaming and I don't understand that. You could see her outside your window walking down to the subway. What made her do that and what point is it for her to go there? Henry was always too late to save them. Even Jasper, even though he was right next to you in the wish house. In both Eileen's death and the 21 Sacraments endings, it says that Eileen died soon after she was brought to the hospital. Does that mean that she was dreaming and trapped in that world as well? She just wasn't a ghost because Walter couldn't kill her himself. Also, if no one was at St. Jeromes hosptial when Henry got there, who took care of her? You find notes and things, but no one was around. I'm assuming again that since they are all tied to Walter and he needs them to be there, they only see what he sees. Maybe their really were people there, but since it's Walter's world, it was of course different.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11381
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
When you find Walter's corpse in Henry's apartment, how is it that it's not decomposed yet? It must've been in there for years and it's still fine, except for the smell. He appears to have been posed a certain way as well. Who put him there and why? I'm assuming since that's his real self when he died. The one running around is different. He looks younger. People said they saw Walter around the apartment and even in room 302. Did Walter actually go in the room when Henry wasn't there? He must've been the one that chained it up from the inside.


Walter's ghost set all that stuff up. Remember the refridgerator with the bottles and the tubes going into the corpse? They were preservatives. As for the chains and locks on Henry's door, Walter probably just manifested those with his mind.

Quote:
Also a thought on the whole dreaming in another world. Henry always wakes up from every place he goes to in his bed. He finds a diary entry saying that if you carry too much of a burden in this world you'd regret it. If you died in Walter's world, you'd remain there forever. Cynthia thought she was dreaming and I don't understand that. You could see her outside your window walking down to the subway. What made her do that and what point is it for her to go there?


She was going down to the subway to catch a train just like any other old person. However, she apparently had too much to drink, and fell asleep. Everyone in Walter's world is asleep in the real world. Think Freddy Krueger.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 04 May 2006
Notes left: 474
Last seen at: MA
AuraTwilight wrote:
Walter's ghost set all that stuff up. Remember the refridgerator with the bottles and the tubes going into the corpse? They were preservatives. As for the chains and locks on Henry's door, Walter probably just manifested those with his mind.



He seemed to have set it up in a specific way though. He was on some sort of cross. Was that for the assumption? I noticed the blood in the refrigerator, but didn't think it was to be for him to use. I thought it was some sort of ritual he was doing. He had a knife in there as well as books and such. Like in SH3 when Heather used the blood from the hanged man to pay respects to the god. I thought Walter was doing the same, only there wasn't a god mentioned. Did he also put the Keys of Liberation in his pocket diliberatly for Henry to find? Then when you are at the end before the fight, the corpse is gone. Walter took it, but where and why? Did he use that to create his "true self" you see in the fight?


AuraTwilight wrote:
She was going down to the subway to catch a train just like any other old person. However, she apparently had too much to drink, and fell asleep. Everyone in Walter's world is asleep in the real world. Think Freddy Krueger.



How could she forget so easily though? So, this must all take place in Walter's dream, or Henry's? Or both of them combined together?


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Historical Society Historian
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Oh yay!
Thanks for those answers! :mrgreen:

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My Bestsellers Clerk
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About your 2 new topics:
I agree with AuraTwilight.
Plus I think I read that Walter commited suicide in his prison cell, so the body we see in Henry's flat is Walter's manifestation, since if it was the real body, it would have different (prison) clothing.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Quote:
He seemed to have set it up in a specific way though. He was on some sort of cross. Was that for the assumption?


Maybe. There's no in-game text saying so though, so maybe he just felt like being blasphemous, or it was the most convenient position.

Quote:
I noticed the blood in the refrigerator, but didn't think it was to be for him to use. I thought it was some sort of ritual he was doing. He had a knife in there as well as books and such. Like in SH3 when Heather used the blood from the hanged man to pay respects to the god. I thought Walter was doing the same, only there wasn't a god mentioned. Did he also put the Keys of Liberation in his pocket diliberatly for Henry to find? Then when you are at the end before the fight, the corpse is gone. Walter took it, but where and why? Did he use that to create his "true self" you see in the fight?


There was blood (probably from the ten hearts), but there were also green bottles connected to the tubes in his body. The Keys of Liberation materialized in the Otherworld for Henry to find intentionally, yes, as it's part of preparing Henry. Pretty much everything is under Walter's control except for the monsters, so yea. And yes, he turned his corpse into the "True self" monster.

Quote:
How could she forget so easily though? So, this must all take place in Walter's dream, or Henry's? Or both of them combined together?


She's drunk and asleep, I can'texpect her memory being too great.

Quote:
Plus I think I read that Walter commited suicide in his prison cell, so the body we see in Henry's flat is Walter's manifestation, since if it was the real body, it would have different (prison) clothing.


Walter killed himself in prison, and his ghost dug up the body and carried it to Room 302. It's his real corpse.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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