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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jul 2003
Notes left: 2368
Droo wrote:
As for the argument that only young guys are porno afficionados, clearly you aren't aware of how much the porn industry is financed by creepy horny old men.

Mike's age isn't really relevant to the discussion even. His age isn't a good indicator on how old Rachel is, anyway. She's a nurse, and men have had crushes on female nurses for generations.

Regarding the subject of an "affair," let's try to remember here that Frank is someone's father.

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Moderator
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Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 11978
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
Your point? Many fathers have extramarital affairs.

Speaking of James' mother: where is she? I get the impression she's dead or at the very least has left Frank. Maybe she left him when James was a kid. I don't see why saying that Frank is someone's father that he couldn't have had an affair with Walter's mom.

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"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jul 2003
Notes left: 2368
Droo wrote:
I don't see why saying that Frank is someone's father that he couldn't have had an affair with Walter's mom.

I'm not saying that he couldn't. But if you're going to suggest the possibility, then I think there should be something to support it.

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Moderator
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Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 11978
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
Yes, conceded. However, I'm still not sure where you were going with pointing out Frank is someone's father.

_________________
"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Your point? Many fathers have extramarital affairs.

Speaking of James' mother: where is she? I get the impression she's dead or at the very least has left Frank. Maybe she left him when James was a kid. I don't see why saying that Frank is someone's father that he couldn't have had an affair with Walter's mom.


If you imagine that Rachel is somehow James' mother, things get super messed up.

Quote:
I'm not saying that he couldn't. But if you're going to suggest the possibility, then I think there should be something to support it.


Frank is a sexy man and it's not like the Sunderlands have a good track record with treating women well and/or keeping monogamous whenever a hot slut walks up. Hurr do I win?

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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Missing since: 08 Jan 2006
Notes left: 4060
Last seen at: Carrollton, TX
The impression I get here is that Henry is mistaken in his assumption that the man in the photo is Frank. It looks like a younger version of Frank, but the fact that Rachel is in the photo looking like her in-game model makes it fairly recent. Therefore the man in the photo is very likely James as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps he and his dad bought sweaters at the same store or even shared one.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jul 2003
Notes left: 2368
I don't see why James would take a picture with Rachel, though. Added to that, in Silent Hill 2, when Laura mentions "Rachel" to James, he has no idea what she's talking about. I'd assume James wasn't very familiar with her.

And, I don't know. Maybe there are guys who do that, but I sure don't buy the same clothes that my old man does nor do I share them.

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Moderator
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Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 11978
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
But Mary was a patient at St. Jerome's for three years. Rachel lived in Ashfield. She was Mary's nurse while she was there. James would have encountered her often for a long period of time. He also would be likely familiar with her through his dad being super at her apartment building.

There was plenty of time for James to develop a friendly relationship with her. He may even have known her well before Mary fell ill. James' memory in SH2 is completely fractured and his mind utterly broken. I wouldn't take his lack of reaction to Rachel's name as indicative of anything. He is in a state of deep dissociative fugue at the time.

As for how he's dressed, since Frank looks so much like James and Henry is only familiar with Frank (thus assuming it's a picture of a much younger Frank) his mind could have superimposed Frank's clothing onto him.

_________________
"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jul 2003
Notes left: 2368
Droo wrote:
But Mary was a patient at St. Jerome's for three years. Rachel lived in Ashfield. She was Mary's nurse while she was there. James would have encountered her often for a long period of time. He also would be likely familiar with her through his dad being super at her apartment building.

This would only help explain why Mary left her letters to Rachel, and why she doesn't necessarily have to know of Mary's death through the hospital. However, familiarity is one thing, and having a "friendly relationship" enough to take a photo with her is another.

Quote:
There was plenty of time for James to develop a friendly relationship with her. He may even have known her well before Mary fell ill. James' memory in SH2 is completely fractured and his mind utterly broken. I wouldn't take his lack of reaction to Rachel's name as indicative of anything. He is in a state of deep dissociative fugue at the time.

If James knew Rachel well before Mary fell ill like you suggest, then Rachel's name shouldn't have drawn a blank. I can understand that the three years of memory while Mary was hospitalized was blanked out for him, but he seems to remember just fine before that time.

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The contents of this post may only be used within the boundaries of www.silenthillforum.com.
Any usage outside of the aforementioned forum is strictly prohibited.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 29 Sep 2009
Notes left: 99
Wait how do we know that Rachel is in fact that young. Are we given a concrete age? I'm sorry I just don't see how people believe that isn't Frank (when he appears to be wearing the same exact clothes as Frank).

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Moderator
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Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 11978
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
People are drawing conclusions on Rachel's age through her in-game model.

I still think there is enough context in SH4 (and SH2) to persuade one that Rachel isn't "young" when the game takes place.

_________________
"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 08 Apr 2008
Notes left: 3073
Last seen at: Wisconsin
Quote:
I still think there is enough context in SH4 (and SH2) to persuade one that Rachel isn't "young" when the game takes place.



Well yeah, in the game when you're in Apartment World, I always thought that this was in Walter's past when he was a little boy. So that would make sense to me that Rachel is actually a lot older in Henry's time.

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Moderator
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Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 11978
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
Except that Rachel's in game model can be seen through Henry's window, and what Henry can SEE from his apartment is in real time.

_________________
"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
>Except that Rachel's in game model can be seen through Henry's window
Therefore we already have an incongruity: The photograph was taken when Frank "was much, much younger," yet Rachel is the same age as she currently is—according to her character model.

So, which version do you want to be correct?

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Missing since: 08 Jan 2006
Notes left: 4060
Last seen at: Carrollton, TX
MMY wrote:
The photograph was taken when Frank "was much, much younger,"

According to Henry, who could very well be mistaken. A perfectly understandable mistake considering the face has been all but obliterated. Henry probably only recognizes him by his sweater. :P

So why does he infer that Frank must be much younger in the photo? My only guess is that he sees Frank with his arm around a young woman and guesses that perhaps this was his wife. He could be using the age of the woman as a rough gauge of Frank's own age. *shrug*

I really did like the idea that it might have been James, though.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 29 Sep 2009
Notes left: 99
MMY wrote:
>Except that Rachel's in game model can be seen through Henry's window
Therefore we already have an incongruity: The photograph was taken when Frank "was much, much younger," yet Rachel is the same age as she currently is—according to her character model.

So, which version do you want to be correct?


Honestly? I believe the picture over the model. Simply because we have someone who looks an awful lot like Frank versus a poorly crafted model that we're clearly not meant to see. I mean think about all the times you see an actual Rachel (not from the window) roaming around? How many times do you see Frank?

Before anyone says anything about the Rachel model keep in mind that the developers didn't think that people would get such a good look at it, thus they quickly made something on the fly.

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The Heart is heaven but the Mind is Hell. - Tom Waits


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 08 Apr 2008
Notes left: 3073
Last seen at: Wisconsin
My thought is that Henry says the Frank is very young in the photo because his hair is probably not gray. Lol!

Quote:
Except that Rachel's in game model can be seen through Henry's window, and what Henry can SEE from his apartment is in real time.

What window is she in?

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jul 2003
Notes left: 2368
Damn It All wrote:
Before anyone says anything about the Rachel model keep in mind that the developers didn't think that people would get such a good look at it, thus they quickly made something on the fly.

I think you give developers too little credit.

You only have to take a quick glance at the Trick or Treat special that's in Lost Memories to know that developers spend a lot of time with this kind of stuff.

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© 2003-2009 Burning Man.
The contents of this post may only be used within the boundaries of www.silenthillforum.com.
Any usage outside of the aforementioned forum is strictly prohibited.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
but burnin mahn sh4 is diffrnt becuz it sucs and was nevr meant to be a real sh game lol.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
Notes left: 7982
Last seen at: Nowhere
Droo, I know that there's tons of older men into porn but c'mon. I can't believe that Mike's let's say... 50? As we can see in the "paint guy" room Mike's portrait show a guy who looks like he's 30, a skinny guy. Check every portrait in the room, about Rachael you're right, she's an old woman, or almost one.

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