Corva09_im wrote:
That's ok. But what would be the real question then? If the rock has powers in someone's Otherworld, or if it own them in the real world?
Because what I said was in relation to the real world, not in the otherworld or the world created by Walter.
The natives who worshiped the rock lived in the real world, not in the Otherworld. At least I think so.
I don't know. People have theorized that...
SH2 Spoilers
Maria wouldn't exist outside of the otherworld...
so perhaps the Mother Stone's supposed power wouldn't work outside of the otherworld either. But then again, we have seen influences occurring in the real world as well, such as...
SH1 and SH3 Spoilers
Cheryl and Heather's existences.
But then, those examples are completely different in nature, so who knows.
Edea wrote:AuraTwilight wrote:
The thing is, Heather was the one creating the world in SH3, not Vincent. Your entire argument is flawed, here. I'd consider revising it.
I never
said Vincent created the world and in retrospect have no idea what your point is since I didn't say that. To imply such and that I said such because I said Heather used it incorrectly is a flawed argument in itself.
I think Aura's point is that, even though Vincent believed in the crest, it wasn't his otherworld, so his beliefs don't matter. It's Heather's belief, or lack of, that would affect the crest.
Edea wrote:
This is more of a ritual, or high magic. Sigil magic is not you "simply draw a sigil and it works", it's much more complicated than that.
In this instance, there's very little difference to a ritual/high magic, or sigil magic as things in the otherworld are based on thought, dreams, and the subconscious. There are many things in each otherworld to suggest such things, so whether or not a ritual or whatnot works would be similar.
Edea wrote:AuraTwilight wrote:
As for Alessa's and Claudia's psychic powers, well...isn't psychic power just the ability to do things with your mind? To make your thoughts reality?
Yes, but it doesn't explain other characters. I.e. James.
Explain what about other characters? Their influence over their own otherworlds? That's already been explained.
Edea wrote:
It also means they had foreknowledge of the occult and I thought it was fairly obvious in SH1 that the Order had been into the occult for years.
I don't mean this to be rude as I mean it as nothing more than a statement, but no shit. That's like saying SH is a series of horror games.
Edea wrote:AuraTwilight wrote:Ghosts are minds, which are bundles of thought. Those who die in the Otherworld don't get to leave, according to SH4.
Where?
Cynthia, Joseph, Braintree, etc, etc.
Edea wrote:AuraTwilight wrote:
Excuse me, but what does the existence of an actual deity have to do with the existence of a false one?
Because if it’s “false†it is NOT the deity. It is a faux deity. Either said deity doesn’t exist, as No God is on the otherworld altar area, or the deity does exist and this one isn’t it. In order for something to be “fake†or “false†something else has to be “real†and “truthâ€, they’re not mutually exclusice.
That's assuming that there really is a God or God like entity in or around SH. There's no definitive proof either way. For all we know, the different forms of God we have seen could be the real deal, or they could just be even more powerful delusions.
Edea wrote:
I'm going what the guidebook says and the Valtiel's form changes depending on who sees it so that doesn't prove it has any relevence to the order.
He has appeared in many forms, yes, but that doesn't change the fact he had the crest tattooed on his arm/s in that particular occurrence, which, like I said, suggests it is important. Heather is creating the otheworld in 3, along with some influence from Alessa. Alessa would have known all sorts of things about The Order's beliefs, including descriptions of their angels (of which Valtiel is supposed to be one), as well as anything else that is important to The Order. So, Valtiel having the crest suggests it is not irrelevant to The Order. On top of that, Leonard, a religious zealot, had the crest with him. Sure, the item itself was junk, but why would a religious zealot have something that is unimportant? Generally religious zealots are very protective etc of icons/items from their religions because said icons/items are an important part of their beliefs.
Edea wrote:
Heather had no belief using that incantation to kill a monster, Claudia is mostly unaware she has power over peoples' hearts, and this doesn't explain Alessa's power at all.
Heather just read a book about a girl vanquishing a monster using an incantation. Heather repeated the incantation while thinking about the story where it vanquishes a monster. It's not that much of a stretch to conclude that the monster disappeared simply because she was thinking about how said incantation worked in the story.
Edea wrote:(Or Claudia's power, "sight".) Nor does it explain why magic works outside of the context of the otherworld, as the cult has been using it to kill people for awhile. Given the evidence there's more to SH than belief = reality. If there wasn't Maria wouldn't be able to see/hear ghosts.
I said, either here or somewhere else in another recent conversation with you, that I believe there is more to the power around Silent Hill and Toluca Lake than just something that can make stuff from thought and beliefs. That, however, does seem to be how the otherworld works. Seeing as it has been described by someone who worked on the story as being something along the lines of a world of dreams (ie; something to do with the mind), it's fair to assume that anything in the otherworld works based on thought. As for how and why things work outside of the otherworld; things that work outside of the otherworld have originated in Silent Hill/around Toluca Lake. I wouldn't be surprised if some people were able to retain some of the area's power, to be used where-ever they go.
Edea wrote:
I dunno the debates surrounding Travis, so I'll leave that out.
Supposedly he dreamed the whole fight as we only see it after he falls to the ground after being caught up in a puff of suspicious smoke. I haven't really taken enough notice of this scene to really have much of an opinion on it either way. I need to replay 0rigins, but can't be bothered recharging my PSP.
Edea wrote:Even tho you can use that argument it doesn't explain or make Claudia and Dahlia any less delusional about God. Whereas the game doesn't do that for Alessa. Now, for the false belief to work either there's no God or that is not God at all. This is why people theorize the Woman in White to be the actual God since she looks normal and is not a delusion that's being projected. It's the power of deduction really.
How are Claudia and Dahlia's view of God delusional?