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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: What is the method of sacrificing the 21th victim?

Missing since: 17 Nov 2010
Notes left: 36
I mean, how Walter would kill Henry if he manage to sacrifice him, therefore completing the 21 Sacrements?

There are hints:
- The 21 Sacrements ending
- Henry's ghost peephole haunting

In the 21 sacrements ending, in the radio, the newscaster said that "The last body discovered was found in Room 302 of the South Ashfield Heights Apartment. It is believed to be that of its occupant, Henry Townshend... The body was reportedly disfigured beyond recognition, making identification impossible."

The peephole haunting is disturbing also. You can see Henry looking through the peephole. Looks like bloodied and twisted. At first, I remembered The Ring horror movie. When you watch a video tape, you die in seven days. Remember the victims? They have twisted face, and seems they are died of fright. Somehow I felt similarities here and Henry's face. What do you think?


Last edited by TREX89 on 04 Jan 2014, edited 1 time in total.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: What is the method of sacrificing the 21th victim?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Does it really matter? It's not the method that kills him that matters so much as the fact he dies. If we go by the 21 Sacraments Ending, he probably walked into that big ass blender thing like Eileen did.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: What is the method of sacrificing the 21th victim?
     
         
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Missing since: 02 Aug 2005
Notes left: 1508
Last seen at: Colombia
Bad playing skills...


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: What is the method of sacrificing the 21th victim?
     
         
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Missing since: 27 Jul 2009
Notes left: 3531
AuraTwilight wrote:
If we go by the 21 Sacraments Ending, he probably walked into that big ass blender thing like Eileen did.


This I agree with. Disfigured beyond recognition... sounds a lot like he walked into the spiked gyroscope thing much like Eileen, showing in the real world as extreme mutilation.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: What is the method of sacrificing the 21th victim?
     
         
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Missing since: 21 May 2010
Notes left: 1234
AuraTwilight wrote:
Does it really matter? It's not the method that kills him that matters so much as the fact he dies. If we go by the 21 Sacraments Ending, he probably walked into that big ass blender thing like Eileen did.




Haha..too funny...no grand elaborate explanations...just straight to the point... :lol: .... 8)


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: What is the method of sacrificing the 21th victim?

Missing since: 17 Nov 2010
Notes left: 36
When I saw at that spiked machine thing which Eileen walked into, I think it would chop its victims into pieces. But when I look at Henry's ghost at the door during a haunting, I see him as if he was beaten up or at least starved to death, because he can't go out from his apartment.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: What is the method of sacrificing the 21th victim?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 May 2006
Notes left: 1881
Last seen at: in the branches that blow
^Yes, the machine at the end would have completely shred anyone stepping into that thing to tiny bits! There wouldnt be a body left at all. Beyond recognizable means the face was cut up and beaten. Walter just had himself a time giving him all that wisdom.

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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: What is the method of sacrificing the 21th victim?

Missing since: 07 Nov 2006
Notes left: 1076
Last seen at: indiana, u.s. of a
l'm for the idea that walter just completely brutalitied henry. no square inch on henry's body left unbeaten. although, it would be funny to see henry walk into the gravity drive.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: What is the method of sacrificing the 21th victim?

Missing since: 17 Nov 2010
Notes left: 36
Somehow I've left in impression that Henry is not killed by that killing machine, but by locked in Room 302. After each "Nightmare" you wake up in the bed, means that Henry never really leaves The Room, but staying in bed all the time. It feels like as if Henry isn't killed by Walter directly, but by locked in his room, starving to death. I remember a scene in the Se7en, where the detectives find the "Sloth". His body was twisted beyond recognisation too. I think Henry's case is similar here, but he is not roped to bed but chained to it by never ending dreams and nightmares. (nod to nightmare on elm street)


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: What is the method of sacrificing the 21th victim?
     
         
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2301
I think that he would end up like Joseph Schrieber, trapped in Walter's Otherworld forever

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: What is the method of sacrificing the 21th victim?

Missing since: 23 Jun 2011
Notes left: 161
Last seen at: Silent Hill
^ That is what i think too. I guess i have never really thought about this but i think SHF and TREX89 are correct.

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"The Fear of Blood tends to create fear for the flesh."
-Silent Hill


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: What is the method of sacrificing the 21th victim?

Missing since: 09 Apr 2012
Notes left: 25
I really don't like the 21 sacraments ending, especially the 'wandering for eternity, never-ending dream' part, too disturbing.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: What is the method of sacrificing the 21th victim?

Missing since: 21 Jun 2012
Notes left: 4
Last seen at: Section 9 Headquaters.
TREX89 wrote:
Somehow I've left in impression that Henry is not killed by that killing machine, but by locked in Room 302. After each "Nightmare" you wake up in the bed, means that Henry never really leaves The Room, but staying in bed all the time. It feels like as if Henry isn't killed by Walter directly, but by locked in his room, starving to death. I remember a scene in the Se7en, where the detectives find the "Sloth". His body was twisted beyond recognisation too. I think Henry's case is similar here, but he is not roped to bed but chained to it by never ending dreams and nightmares. (nod to nightmare on elm street)


Maybe I'm getting at this wrong, or just not reading it right. But how the hell does starvation/nightmares actually mutilate your being so severely that it was impossible to identify you?

I'm under the impression that something else went on. Sure, nightmares may cause face disfigurement to SOME degree (Trauma, shock, etc), but I don't see how it would cause so much disfigurement on the entire body to the point where authorities had a hard ass time identifying the person, lol. xD

I know it's not a big deal, but I'm curious as well. I also don't believe that spherical contraption (The one Eileen is forced to walk into) could cause it either. It would shred you up, not horribly disfigure you. They didn't say that the body was in parts, but as a whole still.

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: What is the method of sacrificing the 21th victim?
     
         
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Missing since: 20 Apr 2008
Notes left: 481
Last seen at: England.
I would guess that Henry would be stuck in the Otherworld forever. I find it hard to believe that he would walk into the death trap at the end of the game. Walter probally had a fun time spanking him with a paddle, too... You know how those dudes swing. Awwww yeah.

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I have a Youtube account where I sometimes post SH related videos. www.youtube.com/user/severeth

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: What is the method of sacrificing the 21th victim?
     
         
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Missing since: 13 Jun 2012
Notes left: 30
Last seen at: Lakeside Amusement Park
Maybe if you walk into the blender in Walter's Otherworld, your body in the real world just looks beaten and mangled?

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- Member of The Order -
~ The Sect of Valtiel ~


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: What is the method of sacrificing the 21th victim?

Missing since: 05 Aug 2012
Notes left: 120
I think this is the closest I get to a topic about the ritual and it does have connections to the individual question as well I'd say. I don't know how far this was discussed before, but replaying the game in Japanese actually made me notice something I didn't notice that much before in the text about the descent of the holy mother.

The translation for the Descent of the Holy Mother text is rather free and sadly looses one important aspect...at least I didn't notice it before, that is that the original text makes the sacrifices much clearer and a little more poignant I think:
Quote:
The First Revelation

And the Lord said, in the time of strife and fullness, in stillness, purify through my wrath.
With the White Oil, the Black Cup and the blood from the Ten Hearts of Sin prepare the ritual of Liberation.

The Second Revelation

And the Lord said, together with the White Oil and the blood from Ten Hearts, offer up your own blood as well.

By doing so you will attain Liberation from the shackles of flesh and attain the powers of the second world.
Through Nothingness and Darkness birth Gloom,
and prepare through Despair the Giver of Enlightenment.

The Third Revelation

And the Lord said, by the Temptation through sin you will return to the great Origin, and under Observation of the unenlightened demon you must circle towards the time of Chaos and line up the Four Atonements.
If this be done, the Road to Recurrence shall open.

The Final Revelation

And the Lord said, and the One who will become the Body of the Mother, and the One inheriting the final Enlightenment, they shall be released from the flesh.
If this be done, through the 21 Sacraments, the Holy Mother shall appear from the Land of Plenty and bring Salvation to the Land of Sin.

This is a rather quick translation, so bear with me if it isn't Shakespeare.

The blood from the Ten Hearts of Sin was gained from his first ten victims, but it was never mentioned that the Practicioner/Conjurer had to offer up his own blood in the ceremony as well to complete the "ritual of Liberation" (which is called Assumption in the translation). This is when he gained the "power of the second world", which can be the afterlife, but also the world of dreams experiences through Silent Hill.
He then killed Peter Walls (Nothingness), who had probably seen nothing when he claimed to have encountered God, and Sharon Blake (Darkness), whose life was darkened by the meddling of the Cult. They probably let him know about the place of Toby Archbold (Gloom), who was depressed about the current hard times of the Valtiel sect, and thus they "birthed" his demise.
He continued with preparing Joseph Schreiber (Despair), by leading him on the path to Enlightenment about all the events, but led him to desperation when he trapped him in his room and made him nothing but a "Giver of Enlightenment" to the next tenant.
Like in the 3rd Revelation, he circles down the spiral staircase of the 4 dreamworlds. First he is approached by Cynthia (Temptation), who 'seduces' men to sin, killing her leads him to Jasper Gein (Origin) and back to his own Origin and the origin of the cult which started it all. He performs his next act under the eyes of the former guard of the Water prison, Andrew de Salvo (Observation), who knew nothing about the greater scheme but was still a horrible person. And finally he reaches the probably slightly insane Richard Braintree (Chaos) who himself has violent tendencies. In this order he lines up the 4 Atonements. Then the Road to Recurrence opens and we have to travel through all the worlds again to reach the core.
Finally, being the only one who was ever really nice to Walter, Eilenn (The Mother's Body), shall become the container for the descended Holy Mother driving her insane, and, being the one who was enlightened about the events by the Giver and by traversing the worlds, Henry becomes the One who receives the final Enlightenment. This seems like, in spirit, they would become the formula from which the Holy Mother is formed.
Then the Holy Mother appears in this world in the flesh from another world and cleanses it in her image.

Maybe this was actually clear to everybody playing the English version from the get-go, but somehow I didn't put two and two together until I read it in the original Japanese.
So, what I'm getting at is that Eileen and Henry are more horribly disfigured because they must be completely stripped from their flesh according to the ceremony.

Now on a tangent, isn't the whole ritual kinda flawed from the beginning when it talks about the Ten Hearts of Sin and Walter sacrifices two innocent children?


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: What is the method of sacrificing the 21th victim?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Finally, being the only one who was ever really nice to Walter, Eilenn (The Mother's Body), shall become the container for the descended Holy Mother driving her insane


Actually incorrect; The 'Holy Mother's container is Room 302 itself. Eileen is being possessed by Walter himself.

Quote:
Now on a tangent, isn't the whole ritual kinda flawed from the beginning when it talks about the Ten Hearts of Sin and Walter sacrifices two innocent children?


Not at all. Valtiel was snuck into Walter's unconscious, giving divine right to his judgements. Anyone he says is a sinner, IS a sinner, for the purpose of his ritual.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: What is the method of sacrificing the 21th victim?

Missing since: 05 Aug 2012
Notes left: 120
AuraTwilight wrote:
Actually incorrect; The 'Holy Mother's container is Room 302 itself. Eileen is being possessed by Walter himself.

I know that #302 is the form that this "Holy Mother" (whatever it is) appears in this world because that's where Walter wants it, but that doesn't change the fact that Eileen is "Mother's Body" (母体), who is described in the prophecy as being "the one who becomes the mother's body" (母なる体).
Now the least thing we could do is question that part.

Quote:
Not at all. Valtiel was snuck into Walter's unconscious, giving divine right to his judgements. Anyone he says is a sinner, IS a sinner, for the purpose of his ritual.

Though I still wonder what they exactly meant by "Valtiel was snuck into the realm of his subconscious". And well yes, towards the gods that these rituals call down the strangest people seem to be sinners.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: What is the method of sacrificing the 21th victim?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
The meaning chosen and intended is 'Mother Reborn' for a good reason. The term you're interpreting as 'body' is more accurately phrased as 'embodiment' or 'incarnation', probably eluding to the fact that Eileen is a symbol of everything Walter thought was good in the world, and was effectively an emotional surrogate for motherhood.

That's why he has to kill her; to break his ties with the old world. Making her 'Mother's Body' makes no sense of any kind.

Quote:
Though I still wonder what they exactly meant by "Valtiel was snuck into the realm of his subconscious". And well yes, towards the gods that these rituals call down the strangest people seem to be sinners.


It's exactly what it sounds like. Valtiel's sitting in the back of his head, and his presence gives Walter the authority to judge good and evil like a god. The people he chose aren't necessarily 'sinners' for any other reason besides that he said so.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: What is the method of sacrificing the 21th victim?

Missing since: 05 Aug 2012
Notes left: 120
^ Are these your interpretations of SH4 or do you have solid proof that would elevate your ideas above those of others?


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