Silent Hill Heaven

Joseph ultimately finds himself trapped in alternate Room 302. (We witness his last moments in the beginning nightmare).
What do you think about this scene? It is or just a weird dream?

No, Walter killed Joseph. The opening sequence is a dream.

But if you arrive to Room 302 of the Past with Henry, you can see black goo on the floor in the living room. If you remember the dream, that's exactly the spot where . It is exactly the same spot again to trigger the cutscene with .

In Japan, (Silent Hill is a japanese game after all...) strong emotions like sadness, pain, anger, etc. gets collected in the same place where it has happened. And being locked in a room for a long, long time, attacked by the most disturbing ghost I ever seen in a game, is a very strong emotion.

Does it cause a plot-hole if Walter doesn't kill Joseph himself? I don't think so. This death counts to Walter too as he killed him too, just indirectly! (By locking him in Room 302 forever!!!) Pure nightmare fuel... Good night guys

That doesn't make any sense.

Walter killed Joseph because that's how the ritual goes. He doesn't get to count someone else's murders as his own handiwork, that's bullshit.

I think you're from a foreign country and english isn't your first language?

From what I understood of your last post you're saying that the spot where we meet Joseph's ghost is the same one in which he died: The living room. And that, in Japan, some believe that your emotions are attached to particular places that you died.

That begs the question: So what? What does this have to do with anything about the actual character?

The first sequence of the game with Jimmy Stone's ghost (the monster from the wall) is a dream, a nightmare lived by Henry. A flashforward of somekind.

Walter murdered Joseph but the act is never really explained through the game but IF Jimmy's ghost murdered him then it counts towards Walter because he IS the king of that particular world.

If you take a look into the things with another perspective and give a really deep thought about it then sure, Joseph's theme, Despair, may have something to do with him being trapped and locked inside the room but I wouldn't count on that because the character's personality is a complete different thing.

But if you want to learn more there's many theories floating around the web about how the murder theme fits the actual victim. You should read them.

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Mephisto wrote:I think you're from a foreign country and english isn't your first language?

[...]

But if you want to learn more there's many theories floating around the web about how the murder theme fits the actual victim. You should read them.

Woah. Haven't read the OP or the others, but resorting to condescending remarks wont get your point across clearer nor will it get him to phrase his sentences better.

^ Way to misunderstand what I actually meant. I was only trying to be helpful. That's all.

Wait so was that jimmy on the ground with is head cracked in the back or was that Joseph. It in the E3 trailer with I'm pretty sure Walter holding the crowbar above him. I'm getting very confused between jimmy and Joseph.

^ Well, Jimmy Stone was murdered with a shot in the back of his head. So I'm pretty sure it was Jimmy...

Also, you can tell the difference between the two from their (lack of) hair. Stone was completely bald while Joseph had the classical "monk style".

Mephisto wrote:^ Well, Jimmy Stone was murdered with a shot in the back of his head. So I'm pretty sure it was Jimmy...

Also, you can tell the difference between the two from their (lack of) hair. Stone was completely bald while Joseph had the classical "monk style".

Ahh ok thanks.

TREX89 wrote:In Japan, (Silent Hill is japanese) strong emotions (sadness, pain...) gets collected in the same place where it was happened. And being locked in a room for a long, long time, attacked by a disturbing-looking ghost victim is a very, very strong emotion.

Just because the game is japanese doesnt mean that you can apply all kinds of japanese folklore and emotions and use it as a reliable source to support your theories.

What others said.

So just to be clear...in the opening sequence, i've always understood that to be Joseph....with the way he died by those ghosts...correct.

>the way he died by those ghosts...correct.
No, Joseph wasn't killed by those ghosts, he was killed by Walter himself. This is the only implied truth since the "21 Sacraments" would fail otherwise. If Joseph was killed by another person, there would've been no reason for Walter to continue his ritual.

Mephisto wrote: The first sequence of the game with Jimmy Stone's ghost (the monster from the wall) is a dream, a nightmare lived by Henry. A flashforward of somekind.

But the person experiencing this dream is doing so through Joseph's eyes - notice how he's pointing out that his red typewriter is missing and he didn't have a television at his place, it's Joseph walking around amongst Henry's furniture.

Furthermore, on the subject, isn't it somewhat suggested that Jasper in fact killed himself (according to Walter's wishes)? I mean, he is carving the numbers himself. Following this, it wouldn't be so strange if Joseph was killed by a ghost or likewise and still an item of Walter's sacraments. Since, like Mephisto said, it's still Walter's doing.

overdosexdelusion wrote:

Mephisto wrote: The first sequence of the game with Jimmy Stone's ghost (the monster from the wall) is a dream, a nightmare lived by Henry. A flashforward of somekind.

But the person experiencing this dream is doing so through Joseph's eyes - notice how he's pointing out that his red typewriter is missing and he didn't have a television at his place, it's Joseph walking around amongst Henry's furniture.

Furthermore, on the subject, isn't it somewhat suggested that Jasper in fact killed himself (according to Walter's wishes)? I mean, he is carving the numbers himself. Following this, it wouldn't be so strange if Joseph was killed by a ghost or likewise and still an item of Walter's sacraments. Since, like Mephisto said, it's still Walter's doing.

I always assumed Walter set Jasper on fire due to what he says before he dies "I finally met him, the one the nosey guy talked about, the devil". Unless I missed something? I could be wrong

Pretty sure Jasper didn't set himself on fire.

As for Joseph, maybe the dream experienced wasn't necessarily his death, or the cause of his death, but just a really horrible experience he had. I know it's a lame theory but if Walter absolutely had to be the one to kill Joseph, then there's no way that could have been his actual death.

After all, Henry dealt with ghosts sticking their hands through his body and he survived. Not to mention, if I recall right, didn't Joseph figure out how to ward off ghosts with holy candles and saint medallions? So he might've been able to fight off the ghost before Walter then killed him.

Or something.

There really is no canon evidence backing up any of this, but it's just my thoughts.

The question then is why is joseph still self aware of what is going on and is able to help Henry while the other ghosts, Jimmy, Richard,Cynthia and others are out to kill him? Joseph may have used holy candles, but the fact remains that Walter still killed him.

So why isn't he acting hostile toward Henry?

He's the Giver of Wisdom. In order to satisfy his role, he needs to be conscious enough to give Henry information on everything, which means not killing him.

Given his behavior when they finally meet face-to-face, he still doesn't seem at all sane, and I'm pretty positive he's still basically under Walter's control.

Makes a Silent Hill kind of sense.