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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Why are the victims of Walter hostile to Henry?

Missing since: 17 Nov 2010
Notes left: 36
If those people are killed by Walter, why are they hostile to Henry? Walter is their murderer after all. Or they are became cursed in the process of the ritual?


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Why are the victims of Walter hostile to Henry?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
They're no longer themselves. As ghosts, they're so utterly consumed by the pain of their deaths that they lash out indiscriminately at the living. It's not entirely a conscious thing.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Why are the victims of Walter hostile to Henry?
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
Notes left: 7963
Last seen at: Nowhere
Or perhaps since it's, you know, Walter's world, the ghosts are obligated by Walter himself to attack anyone trespassing.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Why are the victims of Walter hostile to Henry?

Missing since: 03 Jan 2014
Notes left: 16
I thought maybe they were supposed to be killing Henry as part of the sacrifices?


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Why are the victims of Walter hostile to Henry?
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
Notes left: 7963
Last seen at: Nowhere
^ It's complicated. If a ghost kills Henry it count towards Walter's ritual but in order for the ritual to work without any problems Henry must learn about every demise. In other words, the truth.

The ghosts attacking the player, until he/she/it is dead before the beggining of the "new" murders and before the ritual is even finished is probaby just gameplay mechanics and it doesn't have anything to do with the story. Attacking the one trespassing, any ghost would do it, but killing the person necessary to finish everything? Nah. In the "real world" the game over wouldn't happen.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Why are the victims of Walter hostile to Henry?
     
         
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Missing since: 22 Jun 2006
Notes left: 1924
Last seen at: Katz Street
Would it not be possible to assume that Henry, upon dying by anything other maybe the last boss, just wakes up in his room like when you die in any other dream and that the ghosts are not controlled by anything but their new profound all encompassing anger/hate (going off of typical "vengeful spirit" deal)?
Because it's not often that Silent Hill, or at least the older titles, put enemies where they don't belong or makes them do anything that would contradict the plot.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Why are the victims of Walter hostile to Henry?

Missing since: 17 Nov 2010
Notes left: 36
They stick their hands into Henry's chest to grab his heart. It reminds me somehow the ten hearts ritual. Walter removed their heart to consume them to gain the power of heaven. It means they lack their heart. Symbolism?


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Why are the victims of Walter hostile to Henry?

Missing since: 17 Nov 2010
Notes left: 36
They pursue Henry relentlessly. They are typical ghosts from japanese horror stories. Have everyone seen the ju-on - the grudge horror film? I see similarities here.

Also, I believe if they kill Henry, they help Walter complete the 21 sacraments ritual. Joseph (15/21) is killed by Jimmy Stone's ghost after all in the beginning of the game...


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Why are the victims of Walter hostile to Henry?
     
         
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Missing since: 11 Jun 2012
Notes left: 10
Last seen at: United Kingdom
I thought they were just doing what Walter told them to do really. He's boss of everything


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Why are the victims of Walter hostile to Henry?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Walter doesn't control the monsters. I'm pretty sure there's one point where he kills one after it attacks him, but I'm not sure if I'm just dreaming that up or not.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Why are the victims of Walter hostile to Henry?
     
         
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Missing since: 03 Oct 2012
Notes left: 254
Last seen at: Isle of Man
^ I definitely recall Walter killing some of the monsters. He shoots mothbats outside the water prison, I can't remember if that was the only time he does or if there are other incidents, it's a while since I played it last.

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And my Post-Rock band Nanaki -
https://nanaki.bandcamp.com


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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Why are the victims of Walter hostile to Henry?

Missing since: 20 Jun 2010
Notes left: 1626
AuraTwilight wrote:
Walter doesn't control the monsters. I'm pretty sure there's one point where he kills one after it attacks him, but I'm not sure if I'm just dreaming that up or not.

I vaguely remember something like that. Perhaps it's similar with Alessa and the monsters in her otherworld; neither have complete control over every single thing including the monsters. Of course, I would expect Walter to gain complete control once he's finished with the sacrifices, but in the meantime, not so much.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Why are the victims of Walter hostile to Henry?
     
         
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Missing since: 31 Mar 2012
Notes left: 70
Last seen at: Portugal
Is there any ghost in Silent hill story that can be perceived as having intelligence ? Just asking this because it´s related to topic. I´m sure some ghosts in downpour quests showed they could see Murphy ... also not sure if Mary could be considered a ghost ?


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Why are the victims of Walter hostile to Henry?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Ernest Baldwin, Amy Baldwin, Joseph Screiber, Walter Sullivan, Mary Sunderland...just off the top of my head.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Why are the victims of Walter hostile to Henry?
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
Notes left: 7963
Last seen at: Nowhere
^ Joseph Schreiber, Ernest Baldwin, The Brookhaven Hospital Director, Stanley (albeit damn crazy) and Alessa. To name a few.

EDIT: Aura and I were about to post at the exact time but he beat me.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Why are the victims of Walter hostile to Henry?
     
         
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Missing since: 31 Mar 2012
Notes left: 70
Last seen at: Portugal
Thought so. I´m embarrased i didn´t remembered Ernest. Anyway if it´s established that ghosts can do speak, and perceive, it´s weird they attack Henry :D Though SH4 is kinda different so all this probably doesn´t mean anything..



Then again Walter may have something to do with it.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Why are the victims of Walter hostile to Henry?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
I'm sure much can be said of the fact that the SH4 ghosts were violent murder victims and Ernest and his ilk weren't. There's also implications that Walter is possessing them with his own thoughts, even if he doesn't consciously or deliberately control them.

But even with that in mind, a document in the subway of SH3 states that suicide and murder victims tend to try to lash out at the living.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: Why are the victims of Walter hostile to Henry?
     
         
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Missing since: 21 May 2010
Notes left: 1234
As far as Walter not having control over the monsters? I think he will actually attack those twin-monsters in the forest level, if they attack him or bump into him....Henry is of course his main target, but i think it's been stated that he will attack them if provoked.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Why are the victims of Walter hostile to Henry?
     
         
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Missing since: 31 Mar 2012
Notes left: 70
Last seen at: Portugal
Makes sense,that doc in sh3 can establish it, angry victims can´t let go... but we´re talking about the regular ghost enemies or the numbers ? I personally was talking about the numbers, they die and attack Henry but his neighbours weren´t all bad i think. Don´t recall them all of the bat, but don´t think the street walker ever killed anyone. Though the revolver guy looked a war vet.


Although possesing them indirectly can explain it.



Quote:
As far as Walter not having control over the monsters? I think he will actually attack those twin-monsters in the forest level, if they attack him or bump into him....Henry is of course his main target, but i think it's been stated that he will attack them if provoked.



Maybe he isn´t in full control of what happens ?


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: Why are the victims of Walter hostile to Henry?
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Aug 2003
Notes left: 1099
Last seen at: The most extreme and utter region of the human mind.
A related question that bothers me is, why is Walter himself hostile to Henry and Eileen before they arrive at the location where the ritual is supposed to be completed? One could make the argument that if the ghosts have any intelligent desire at all, it's to kill Henry and Eileen prematurely so that the ritual can't succeed, but Walter seems perfectly fine with trying to kill them himself in the latter half of the game. It's possible that the exact time and place doesn't strictly matter to him as long as they're killed in order, but Walter always seems to attack Henry before Eileen.

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“The sinister, the terrible never deceive: the state in which they leave us is always one of enlightenment. And only this condition of vicious insight allows us a full grasp of the world, all things considered, just as a frigid melancholy grants us full possession of ourselves. We may hide from horror only in the heart of horror."
--Thomas Ligotti


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