big headed woman
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- The Adversary
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>I remember her saying things like, "I'm scared," or "Mommy?" in a little baby-doll voice.
The way Eileen speaks then isn't different from how she normally does, nor is Henry affected if he gets too close to her.
If Eileen was being possessed by Walter, why wouldn't he just, you know, kill her? He doesn't need her body in the dream-world, as evidenced by the final arena—only her body in the real world. Walter could force her to do any number of things while in possession of her. Yet nothing like that happens.
The way Eileen speaks then isn't different from how she normally does, nor is Henry affected if he gets too close to her.
If Eileen was being possessed by Walter, why wouldn't he just, you know, kill her? He doesn't need her body in the dream-world, as evidenced by the final arena—only her body in the real world. Walter could force her to do any number of things while in possession of her. Yet nothing like that happens.
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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.
. . . AND THAT'S THAT.
- Mis Krist.
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I'm not sure if I can agree with you on the first part, because Eileen definitely doesn't normally talk in a baby doll voice... which she did in the game when she's severely injured/has those weird marks all over her body.
I never said I thought Walter was possessing Eileen, just that she starts talking like a little kid. And if you're so certain that it isn't possession, do you have a theory about what those weird marks on Eileen are and how/why they progress as rapidly as they do? I'm curious.
I never said I thought Walter was possessing Eileen, just that she starts talking like a little kid. And if you're so certain that it isn't possession, do you have a theory about what those weird marks on Eileen are and how/why they progress as rapidly as they do? I'm curious.
I'm not dead yet, dammit.
- The Adversary
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I believe that Konami actually calls Eileen in this state, "Possessed Eileen" in the official guidebooks.
It's also indicative of how much power Walter has by the time the game ends also, since when she's in a state of heaviest possession she not only says the things he said as a child, but in the Umbilical Cord cutscene she will run away from Henry in the super's apartment and say in a childlike voice what little Walter most likely said often, "I'll wake you up, mommy, I will!". (To which Henry gives her a blank stare and probably thinks, 'What the fu...')
She'll walk faster to her death by the the armillary sphere-- exactly what Walter wants.
So I don't consider it really 'cursed', and you have to admit, it was Eileen herself who said 'cursed' but did she really know more of what was going on than the player who can logically assume it's more 'possession' than simply being 'cursed'?
If anything what we can all agree on is that, "He's taking her over." the words used by Joseph in the cutscene at Room 302 of the Past.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1__Wn7ehRE <- Eileen Normal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnMfZaEFV68 <- Eileen Possessed
The dialogue was the same in both cutscenes last I remember, but both have Joseph referring to her as being 'taken over'. Which usually implies something more along the lines of 'possession' than being 'cursed'. Interpret it as you will.
It's also indicative of how much power Walter has by the time the game ends also, since when she's in a state of heaviest possession she not only says the things he said as a child, but in the Umbilical Cord cutscene she will run away from Henry in the super's apartment and say in a childlike voice what little Walter most likely said often, "I'll wake you up, mommy, I will!". (To which Henry gives her a blank stare and probably thinks, 'What the fu...')
She'll walk faster to her death by the the armillary sphere-- exactly what Walter wants.
So I don't consider it really 'cursed', and you have to admit, it was Eileen herself who said 'cursed' but did she really know more of what was going on than the player who can logically assume it's more 'possession' than simply being 'cursed'?
If anything what we can all agree on is that, "He's taking her over." the words used by Joseph in the cutscene at Room 302 of the Past.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1__Wn7ehRE <- Eileen Normal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnMfZaEFV68 <- Eileen Possessed
The dialogue was the same in both cutscenes last I remember, but both have Joseph referring to her as being 'taken over'. Which usually implies something more along the lines of 'possession' than being 'cursed'. Interpret it as you will.
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- The Adversary
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The strange behavior Eileen manifests (especially since of some of that behavior is floating in the air, mumbling gibberish while Henry gets a splitting headache) is her transition toward Victimhood.
Eileen gimping around with Henry isn't necessary to Walter's plans, since he seems to have intended to kill her in her apartment. Besides, it's not like Henry gets that much more knowledge out of her tagging along (except for translating the journal entries, but even then, that's only the second world out of five). So, either Walter's toying with Henry by letting him believe that he can save Eileen, or he isn't putting out the effort because he knows it'll all end up in his court anyway. The third possibility is that Walter just isn't as powerful as we give him credit for.
Victimhood's a strange thing. Are they slaves to Walter's will, or are the actually there to haunt Walter, much like the monsters (and the way Walter will go out of his way to kill them brutally) are actually after him instead of Henry, who just happens to get in the way? Clearly, Walter is demonstrating power over Eileen, and how much power he has over her is directly related to how beat-up she is, but he never seems to have any power over the other Victims, nor do we ever see a situation where he might attack them.
If Walter hadn't performed the Ritual of Holy Assumption, I wouldn't doubt that he'd be just like any other visitor to the SH Experience, with the monsters and Victims out for his blood.
Eileen gimping around with Henry isn't necessary to Walter's plans, since he seems to have intended to kill her in her apartment. Besides, it's not like Henry gets that much more knowledge out of her tagging along (except for translating the journal entries, but even then, that's only the second world out of five). So, either Walter's toying with Henry by letting him believe that he can save Eileen, or he isn't putting out the effort because he knows it'll all end up in his court anyway. The third possibility is that Walter just isn't as powerful as we give him credit for.
Victimhood's a strange thing. Are they slaves to Walter's will, or are the actually there to haunt Walter, much like the monsters (and the way Walter will go out of his way to kill them brutally) are actually after him instead of Henry, who just happens to get in the way? Clearly, Walter is demonstrating power over Eileen, and how much power he has over her is directly related to how beat-up she is, but he never seems to have any power over the other Victims, nor do we ever see a situation where he might attack them.
If Walter hadn't performed the Ritual of Holy Assumption, I wouldn't doubt that he'd be just like any other visitor to the SH Experience, with the monsters and Victims out for his blood.
- volpe3fuego
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Well, I've come up with my own theory for this one. I discovered from reading around that the big Eileen head watching you represents Henry spying on Eileen but for the rest, here's my personal take.
To me, the huge size of the noggin is referring to looking through the peephole. When you look through it, it's like seeing through a microscope; you feel bigger than what you're looking at because you're gazing through a tiny space. So the size of the head could be the meaning for this. As for the sexual noises, well, I think that symbolizes that maybe Henry was fantasizing or doing a little more than just "spying", if you catch my drift *ahem*
To me, the huge size of the noggin is referring to looking through the peephole. When you look through it, it's like seeing through a microscope; you feel bigger than what you're looking at because you're gazing through a tiny space. So the size of the head could be the meaning for this. As for the sexual noises, well, I think that symbolizes that maybe Henry was fantasizing or doing a little more than just "spying", if you catch my drift *ahem*
The Game..what's up with that? Who's his manager: Milton Bradley? ~ Edge making fun of Triple H,WWE
I don't understand how people come to the conclusion that the Eileen head is a manifestation of Henry's emotions or thoughts.
Every other monster and every level are products of Walter's mind and experiences.
So if anything, that big head is something Walter created, and probably represents Walter having more than just murderous feelings for her. I'm not saying he wants to throw a ring on her and marry her or something, but hell, she's a gorgeous woman and I think he knows that.
Plus, with all the conflicting emotions he had on the stairs that ultimately led to him "splitting" after trying to kill Eileen and failing... it just seems consistent that the big Eileen head was created by that other half that might have some fondness for her. If not fondness, probably simple lust (I only think that because of the moaning, though). I doubt love, or any "sane" form of love, anyway.
Why would Henry go the entire game without conjuring one single monster or image, then suddenly have the power to manifest a giant Eileen head?
I'm not attacking anyone who says it's created by Henry, or anything. I'm just curious.
Every other monster and every level are products of Walter's mind and experiences.
So if anything, that big head is something Walter created, and probably represents Walter having more than just murderous feelings for her. I'm not saying he wants to throw a ring on her and marry her or something, but hell, she's a gorgeous woman and I think he knows that.
Plus, with all the conflicting emotions he had on the stairs that ultimately led to him "splitting" after trying to kill Eileen and failing... it just seems consistent that the big Eileen head was created by that other half that might have some fondness for her. If not fondness, probably simple lust (I only think that because of the moaning, though). I doubt love, or any "sane" form of love, anyway.
Why would Henry go the entire game without conjuring one single monster or image, then suddenly have the power to manifest a giant Eileen head?
I'm not attacking anyone who says it's created by Henry, or anything. I'm just curious.
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Even though dancing Cynthia is just an easter egg and probably not canon (just some simple fanservice), I would still say that might be a product of Walter's mind, too. In fact, both costumes, if you really want to interpret it as something important have closer connotations to Walter's vision of them then Henry's.
Nurse costume = Nurses are kind, gentle, nurturing. We do pick up Eileen in a hospital too. Take into account the way Eileen was the only source of kindness in his life that one time, I would say that if he could re-imagine her wearing something else, it would probably be this nurse costume.
Lingerie costume = Probably some association with sex. Cynthia was never said outright to be a promiscuous girl, but a lot of people feel that from the way she acts toward Henry, and the way she used to sneak into clubs as a teen and party a lot. The "party slut" you could say (possibly). Considering Walter actually did have feelings for her at one time, and she turned him down very rudely, he probably saw her for what she really was. Then you wind up with her wearing what some people call, the "hooker outfit".
The dancing Cynthia... probably a throwback to her partying days, or just another hint that she's probably a bit of a female "player", so to say... after all, she was the "Temptation" themed victim. That "Temptation" probably refers to sexual temptation.
Andrew's head, I would say is another apparition created by Walter. It's not a haunting that can hurt Henry, but I think it's more than an easter egg. I'm not going to try and interpret it, since I never really put much thought into it other than, "Oh, just another haunting." but it's probably in the same vein as the "victim" Henry you can see sometimes by looking through the peephole, or the vision in the television (which is also of Andrew's face).
...actually, a thought just hit me. I wonder if it has to do with the way the Panopticon Prison was set up? Remember how the children were kept in cells with small "peepholes" for the guards to watch them? Andrew was one of those guards. Maybe we see Andrew's head floating by the window, looking in, similar to how Walter saw Andrew walking by and looking in as a child. Only this time Andrew is in a state of suffering (Walter's vengeance). The television set might be on a similar vein: Andrew somewhere else looking in at you.
That's just one interpretation though, so take it with a grain of salt. It's always good to form your own conclusions.
Nurse costume = Nurses are kind, gentle, nurturing. We do pick up Eileen in a hospital too. Take into account the way Eileen was the only source of kindness in his life that one time, I would say that if he could re-imagine her wearing something else, it would probably be this nurse costume.
Lingerie costume = Probably some association with sex. Cynthia was never said outright to be a promiscuous girl, but a lot of people feel that from the way she acts toward Henry, and the way she used to sneak into clubs as a teen and party a lot. The "party slut" you could say (possibly). Considering Walter actually did have feelings for her at one time, and she turned him down very rudely, he probably saw her for what she really was. Then you wind up with her wearing what some people call, the "hooker outfit".
The dancing Cynthia... probably a throwback to her partying days, or just another hint that she's probably a bit of a female "player", so to say... after all, she was the "Temptation" themed victim. That "Temptation" probably refers to sexual temptation.
Andrew's head, I would say is another apparition created by Walter. It's not a haunting that can hurt Henry, but I think it's more than an easter egg. I'm not going to try and interpret it, since I never really put much thought into it other than, "Oh, just another haunting." but it's probably in the same vein as the "victim" Henry you can see sometimes by looking through the peephole, or the vision in the television (which is also of Andrew's face).
...actually, a thought just hit me. I wonder if it has to do with the way the Panopticon Prison was set up? Remember how the children were kept in cells with small "peepholes" for the guards to watch them? Andrew was one of those guards. Maybe we see Andrew's head floating by the window, looking in, similar to how Walter saw Andrew walking by and looking in as a child. Only this time Andrew is in a state of suffering (Walter's vengeance). The television set might be on a similar vein: Andrew somewhere else looking in at you.
That's just one interpretation though, so take it with a grain of salt. It's always good to form your own conclusions.
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- Mis Krist.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01qke-goVHw
After you beat the game and get Cynthia's costume, when you are walking toward her in the subway, she will shake her butt until you start the cut scene with her. It's not a haunting, it's just a funny little fanservice-y easter egg.
After you beat the game and get Cynthia's costume, when you are walking toward her in the subway, she will shake her butt until you start the cut scene with her. It's not a haunting, it's just a funny little fanservice-y easter egg.
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- Son_of_Kauffman
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Both in my opinion.Krist. wrote:^ To be fair, though, she does start talking like a child during some parts. I remember her saying things like, "I'm scared," or "Mommy?" in a little baby-doll voice. I don't know if that's her just freaking out, though or if it's Walter's influence...
Spetsnaz of the Interior Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia
Spetsnaz sil Vnutrenniye Voiska Ministerstva Vnutrennikh Del
http://egan.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/20/california-will-survive-its-crackup/?ref=opinion
Think of Italy — which reminds me of California in so many ways — and its chronic inability to form a government. That’s California, with even better food and no parliamentary system.
....somewhere in Italy a contract was put out on the life of the article's author.
Spetsnaz sil Vnutrenniye Voiska Ministerstva Vnutrennikh Del
http://egan.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/20/california-will-survive-its-crackup/?ref=opinion
Think of Italy — which reminds me of California in so many ways — and its chronic inability to form a government. That’s California, with even better food and no parliamentary system.
....somewhere in Italy a contract was put out on the life of the article's author.