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RESPECT
 Post subject: Eileen's reality. (Spoilers abound.)
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19398
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Upon playing The Room again—and again & again—I began to think more about Eileen and her presence in this world that Henry encounters: that being, of course, Walter's [otherside]. The entire purpose of The Room is, essentially, to emulate that of a dream: a world replete with chaos & disorder, a "world of extreme flux," with shifting walls & moving doors--much like the previous [otherside]'s. Walter's, however, is different: it is a dream, rather than a manifestation, such as Alessa's or Mary's.

The Building World is a perfect example of a popular "dream world." The buildings that are involved—Albert's Sports, Garland's Pet Shop, South Ashfield Bar, &c.—are all separate locations, yet in this reality, Henry steps through each one as though they're connected & intertwined by various staircases spanning impossible distances. The first time Henry experiences this "location," he ends up at the apex: Room #207 of South Ashfield Heights, Richard Braintree's room. Of course this is impossible, but not within the realm of one's dream.

Whenever Henry exits a particular world, by traversing a conveniently placed hole, he awakes in his room, stumbles out of bed, returns through his own hole, and is back where he was previously. All of this indicates that what occurs in Walter's world, though emulating a "reality," is in actuality a dream, playing through in Henry's head.

Eileen is no different.

After Eileen is cudgeled to near-death, in her own room, before her friend's party, she is rushed to St. Jerome's Hospital. Henry, upon finding a new hole in his laundry room, is now able to travel to where she is and rescue her, thus beginning the second half of the game. While Eileen follows Henry around, she can become "cursed" depending on the damage she is dealt. She informs Henry of this immediately upon his arrival back from the hole: a hole she claims isn't even there; Henry just "disappeared"—back to his bed; nap-time was over.

Why, then, would Eileen not see the hole? and why can she not return to the same reality that Henry does?

Simple: She's unconscious, at St. Jerome's Hospital, from a paranormal beat-down.

The Eileen Galvin that Henry interacts with throughout the second half of Silent Hill 4: The Room is nothing more than Eileen's dream-self: She is unable to leave because she's unable to awake. At all. She's stuck at St. Jerome's, unconscious. Neither can she die while in the dream-world; she can only become more & more cursed.

Depending on the ending, Eileen may or may not be seen alive again from the point that she's attacked by Walter Sullivan's ghost. Between St. Jerome's Hospital & South Ashfield Heights: Eileen is just a dream. If, during the final confrontation with Walter, Eileen is killed, then her physical body—supine in the hospital—dies, and a "bad" ending is acquired. If not: she awakes, to be finally visited by Henry Townshend, finally free of the entire ritual—with flowers even! (What a sweetheart!)

This is all just an interesting look into the developers ideas in creating a dream-like world for players & characters alike, and people's reactions to such dreams. Explaining a dream to anyone is next-to-impossible by any means, but Team Silent's vision of a shared reality is a rather peculiar one—one that I've become even more fond of as time passes.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


Last edited by The Adversary on 28 Apr 2009, edited 4 times in total.

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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 28 Jan 2004
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I never thought of it that way. Thank you for opening my eyes to such a brilliant theory, and answer to the second half of SH4.

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Historical Society Historian
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As if she didn't have a shitty deal already, eh?

Now, would it be logical to assume that she's comatose in the real world as this goes on? I would think the doctors would find it troubling if they couldn't wake her up, or they may assume it was due to the extensive injuries.

Well.. there really isn't much I can say. This makes sense, it fits, and it's interesting. Kudos. Something to think about whenever I get around to playing the game again.

Oh and, cudgeled! Fantastic.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 18 Jul 2004
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Fantastic theory. I never thought of it like that, which makes me feel rather foolish; it's simple, and logical.
I'll definitely be paying closer attention to Eileen next time I play through.

Poor Eileen really does get a raw deal.


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 Post subject:

Have you seen the film Paperhouse? Similar idea. The dreamworld of one can join another's.

Good theory.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 05 Feb 2005
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Yeah that's kinda what I wanted to ask, so you think that Henry and Eileen were sharing the same dream? Or rather, both inside of Walter's dream? So then how did they end up in there in the first place? And where is the real Walter "sleeping"??

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Subway Guard
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Nice one, Adversary.
Keep 'em coming!


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Wow. Totaly a huge piece of the puzzle. Kudos.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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>both inside of Walter's dream?
No, they're both in their own dreams. Think of Nightmare on Elm St.. The kids are each sucked into Freddie's nightmare-reality, but in this instance: both Henry & Eileen are in the same nightmare world. The "world" is created by Walter Sullivan as a child--thus the memories of South Ashfield Apartments from when he visited as a kid--but Henry & Eileen are both asleep, dreaming, meeting one another in this [otherside].

>So then how did they end up in there in the first place?
I believe it's the same for all of the Victims: Richard Braintree even mentions a hole that he traversed through; each one of them was "summoned" to this dream-world in their own way, as instigated by Walter.

Think of the old tale: If you dream of, say, falling out a window--defenestration for example (my favorite word). The story goes that if you land, or hit the ground, before waking up, you'll die in this world. So. "If you die in this world"--the dream-world is what Henry means here--"then you die in the real world too."

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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I know that part. Let's not get into semantics again. I was just wondering how they all got summoned to Walter's world, and how he created it.

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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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>how they all got summoned to Walter's world
As part of the Descent of the Holy Mother--the 21 Sacraments. Pre-determination, of sorts. They were chosen.

>how he created it.
As part of the Ritual of the Holy Assumption. You can read more about it from the first book scrap Henry finds behind his bookshelf.

Through the Ritual of the Holy Assumption, he built a world...

I don't know what more you're asking for.

>...would it be logical to assume that she's comatose in the real world...?
Absolutely. Unconscious at the hospital. Henry doesn't see the real Eileen Galvin until either of the posi- endings.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Moderator
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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
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Come on, now. It was bound to happen.

Question though:

Is Eileen's experience different from the others? I mean, what makes me wonder is Richard. You mention his room as being accessed in a rather impossible way, which is true. We also see him die in a rather impossible way. I can't fathom that ol Dick has a fully-functional electric chair in his bedroom.

With the other three victims, the police never find Andrew (at least, I don't recall them finding Andrew), but they do find Cynthia, Jasper, Rich and Eileen. In the cases of Cynthia, Jasper, and Eileen, they are discovered much in the same way you find them. Richard, however, dies in a pretty unlikely way, compared to the others. How does that work? Is he really electrocuted?

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Historical Society Historian
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It´s a good and interesting point. I slighltly though about that too, but I just don´t have the writing skills you have to post anything like that. Good work!

Off topic: something is bothering me, after you get the ending, 21 sacraments, you listen to the news reporter saying that Henry´s body was completly deformed. Got any theory how that exacly happened? Eileen dies at the hospital. Henry is found on the apartment. In which part of the apartment? Usually what happens in the world created by Walter (the deaths, of course) are reproduced in the real one as if it really happened. Henry only gets a strong headache and then *poof* is slightly "diferent"

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Historical Society Historian
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Which also explains Cynthia's "it's just a dream".

Kudos.

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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 28 Jan 2004
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Piranha wrote:
Off topic: something is bothering me, after you get the ending, 21 sacraments, you listen to the news reporter saying that Henry´s body was completly deformed. Got any theory how that exacly happened? Eileen dies at the hospital. Henry is found on the apartment. In which part of the apartment? Usually what happens in the world created by Walter (the deaths, of course) are reproduced in the real one as if it really happened. Henry only gets a strong headache and then *poof* is slightly "diferent"


TA mentioned before something about Henry's head exploding. Since Walter's World collapsed, it was too much for Henry to fathom and therefore...BOOM!

At least, that's what I recall.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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His head didnt just explode, I think his whole body was mutilated beyond recognition. Yeah I would probably say this is from Walter's world collapsing upon itself.

If this goes with Adversary's theory, I would guess that they found him in the room, possibly even in bed. He was there all along, but his body was destroyed, reflecting what happened to him in his "dream body" in Walter's world. (kinda like a freddy krueger type thing).

Ok, wait, I have another question for TA...

You said they got summoned to the dream world, and their real bodies are still in the real world?

So does this mean that, as the other victims are summoned to the dream world, their real bodies just fell asleep wherever their bodies were found? (falling asleep in a subway?)

And how would this explain the dissapearance of some of the actual bodies? (Joseph Shreiber and Peter Walls)

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Historical Society Historian
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^Cool... Thanks for answering

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 27 Sep 2005
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biomechanical wrote:

You said they got summoned to the dream world, and their real bodies are still in the real world?

So does this mean that, as the other victims are summoned to the dream world, their real bodies just fell asleep wherever their bodies were found? (falling asleep in a subway?)

And how would this explain the dissapearance of some of the actual bodies? (Joseph Shreiber and Peter Walls)


Well, think about the news reports that Henry heard. He saw the ambulance at the subway, heard about the man lighting himself on fire....so it almost sounds like whatever they do in the dream world to die not only KILLS THEM, but also inflicts upon them the same death on their sleeping form(setting yourself on fire=spontaneous combustion?) Also, dreams have no real time frame, so someone in the subway may crawl through the hole, stay for ten hours, and die, while meanwhile in the waking world only ten minuets have elasped and paramedics are on the way to save the mysterious collapsing girl. They arive, and she's DOA.

And for Joseph and Peter, I have no fucking clue.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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@Alone in the Town
The problem is that the police don't mention how Richard is found dead, only that the number 19121 is carved into his forehead. I can't safely explain how Richard died in reality, but if you've any idea, feel free to share. More of this below, kinda.

>TA mentioned before something about Henry's head exploding.
That actually wasn't me. It's been floating round for awhile now, but I wouldn't say his head exploded. The news report says: The body was reportedly disfigured beyond recognition, making identification impossible. You can learn a lot from the news reports.

In the ending of the 21 Sacraments, there are five bodies (Richard Braintree, Andrew DeSalvo, Jasper Gein, Cynthia Velasquez, & Joseph Schreiber) & Eileen Galvin--still alive, though dies shortly aftewards--found in the woods outside of Silent Hill. Henry is found disfigured--anyone else think of the Ring?--in room 302 of the apartments. This occurred yesterday. Today, though, five unnamed police officers were found dead, as well as Frank Sunderland. This incident is similar to one that occurred in Silent Hill years ago. So... what incident is that? It certainly isn't a part of Walter's Ten Hearts collection, or a part of the Descent of the Holy Mother. I'd like to know, myself.

Now, in the ending of Eileen's Death, there are five bodies found, including Eileen Galvin's. Four of them are already dead--Richard, Andrew, Jasper, Cynthia--, all with identical wounds. This contradicts the earlier reports, of Cynthia being removed from the hospital, Jasper being set ablaze, et cetera.

>their real bodies just fell asleep wherever their bodies were found?
The other cases are different, in a sense. Something happened to Cynthia while she went down into the Subway. If she were at home, asleep, her body wouldn't have been recovered in the Subway. Same goes for Jasper. It seems to me that the application of this dream-world primarily only affects Eileen & Henry, as they're the only two we know to be asleep.

What happens to Jasper mimicks Henry's dream, involving the fire, but I can't explain how he ultimately ended up at Wish House & set ablaze. It's palpable that Walter's ghost--being responsible for these deaths--is able to physically transport these bodies to their locations-of-death (Jasper to Wish House, for example), but it doesn't explain why Cynthia is seen entering the Subway in reality. We know that Walter can physically affect the real world & its inhabitants given that Toby Archibold was pushed off of a cliff in Mexico, but it still doesn't necessarily add up.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 27 Sep 2005
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the Adversary wrote:
>their real bodies just fell asleep wherever their bodies were found?
The other cases are different, in a sense. Something happened to Cynthia while she went down into the Subway. If she were at home, asleep, her body wouldn't have been recovered in the Subway. Same goes for Jasper. It seems to me that the application of this dream-world primarily only affects Eileen & Henry, as they're the only two we know to be asleep.


I was thinking more along the lines of Cynthia actualy being in the subway to begin with and THEN be transported to the dream world (through a hole or anything really). Her dream self, or soul, or whatever you want to call it goes into Walter's world and her real body collapses, but is still alive. Then she dies in the dream world, and the same death mysteriously replcates itself in reality.


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