Eileen's reality. (Spoilers abound.)

[Mis Krist.]

In order to see those peepholes Henry has to get out of bed--when you come back from the worlds, Henry wakes up, gets out of bed, and can look out of the windows/peepholes into reality.

[Loveless_Dogg]

The way I see it, there's this Sphere of Influence created by Walter that surrounds this room. It gets weaker the further it gets but there's still some if not any influence by Walter. That's why he can visibly project himself to his victims in the real world. i.e. Peephole.

(I don't know exactly when the "Skinned Mike" tape was made but it included Richard yelling at Little Walter even at the time, but I personally assume The Real Walter was already dead by then.)

hmmm...just a thought though...

[Anonymous]

I'd like to point something out.
Saying that the Otherworld of Silent Hill four is a 'dream world' is oversimplifying things. The Otherworld of SH4 is not accessed solely through sleep, for example - Cynthia appears to happen across it through an altered state of intoxication. Otherworld is not a dream world, though sleep or dreams may be a key through which it is accessed.
I can think of two hard pieces of evidence to back this up. Firstly, the aged and faded tome found behind the bookshelf near the beginning of the game. It states that the Otherworld is both 'within and without Our Lord's world.' The Otherworld overlaps and owes it's existence to the real world, sharing some parts of itself with reality and intruding upon the real world elsewhere. Essentially this means that the Otherworld is quite real, unlike in a dream where if one is slashed or crushed the damage is not apparent upon waking.
Secondly...and this is something so obvious that it's apparently been overlooked...physical items which can have an effect on reality can be taken from the Otherworld to to real world and vice versa. Likewise, changes which have occured in reality which Henry would have no knowledge of are reflected in his excursions into the Otherworld, i.e. the burning of Wish House, the evidence chalk marks around Cynthias heretofore unseen discarded makeup items, etcetera.

On the topic of Eileen being asleep the entire time, and Henry never having actually woken up until the end...I disagree with the latter. You may have noticed that in the good endings, when Henry goes to meet Eileen in the hospital the next day she doesn't have a scratch on her. Perfect milky complexion. On the other hand, when Henry escapes the Walter's womb after the final battle he is quite obviously wounded. Therefore we might guess that while Eileen was quite asleep the entire time and apart from Walter's Otherworld bodily, Henry visits the Otherworld in the flesh, due to the relation of the Otherworld to room 302.

I've run out of time at the moment, but I wonder - what bearing does this have on Henry meeting Eileen outside the Otherworld apartment after he recieves the Keys?

[Glazarus]

Walters world is created as it would if his nightmares became real. The monsters are guilt and fear and doesn't hunt only you, but also him.

The otherworld that in this case is Walters world, is "in dreams". The apartment is a part of the otherworld, because the viewhole in the door is only looking INTO reality, never whats really on the otherside. Walter never appears in reality, even if you see him outside of your door. He is IN HIS WORLD, and when you see him, he stands in the "fleshlike" version of the apartment. The apartment is an outpost that rests on the BORDER between the two realities.
It isn't certain that Henry is asleep the whole time, but if he should be able to escape the apartment outpost, he must be able to go out into the REAL hallway, which he can't in the place we play. This makes us assume that Henry is asleep.

The reason Eileen hasn't got any wounds is simple... her ONLY wound is the carved numbers on her back. The reason she got into coma was probably because of bloodloss or missed outropoint from Walters world. Every other victim had numbers in REALITY. That means that the wounds appear on the victims, even if Walter kills them in their sleep.

Walter has been granted the powers of the Gods... so he is the king in his world.
It is his Kingdom.

[Anonymous]

You make a strong case.
That the apartment is, at the least, a border between reality and Otherworld is almost certainly true. Is it possible, however, that Henry's front door merely becomes another way to step into the Otherworld? And if the wounds of other victims became real though inflicted through the Otherworld, why wouldn't Eileen's? She definitely takes some hurt from various Otherworld sources, Walter being one of them.

[The Adversary]

>And if the wounds of other victims became real though inflicted through the Otherworld, why wouldn't Eileen's?
The only wounds the other victims are known to have are the numbers carved into them. Eileen's wounds are on her back: Henry wouldn't be able to see them in the ending the next day.

[Anonymous]

If the wounds she took during her time with Henry don't count, then you're right.
Do you believe this is because of storyline reasons, or game production reasons?

Edit: Wait a minute, the numbers weren't only carved onto her back, she'd recieved a severe beating from Walter. Her face was wounded, her eye bandaged, her arm in a cast. Was her arm in a cast during the ending scene? I don't recall.

[Glazarus]

She doesn't get any wounds... the "creep" stuff on her is the curse that manifests itself.

[Anonymous]

So her apparent wounds are really just a matter of perception, imposed by Walter's will of her death, AKA a curse?
Glazuras' theory sounds more and more likely to me, and I hate to sound like a fool, but why would Walter begin carving the numbers before she was nearly dead? In the case of Jasper and Richard, for instance, it wasn't until they were practically dead already that the numbers began to appear - Jasper on fire and Richard zapped by the chair. There were physical wounds on them when they were found, as Glazarus said. These would only appear after a complete and certain death, for some reason? Walter obviously intended to kill her, as little Walter acted to save her.

[The Adversary]

>There were physical wounds on them when they were found
In reality, no. The wounds that were inflicted upon them, as I stated previously, are only apparent in the "dream world"; in reality, all that's there are the numbers.

[Glazarus]

>There were physical wounds on them when they were found
In reality, no. The wounds that were inflicted upon them, as I stated previously, are only apparent in the "dream world"; in reality, all that's there are the numbers.

Yes, but the numbers themself seem pretty deep and could lead to bloodloss, so even if they are the only wounds they are pretty mortal. Also, some of those wounds where self inflicted.

Think of it like this... when some of them sleep, they could infact sleepwalk and carve the numbers into themselfs... just like Jasper does to himself. We never actually see the wounds being created, so we enver know what really happens in reality.
There are plenty of real stories that revolves around humans that sleepwalk and hurt others or themselfs. Some can even drive to work waking up at the next day sitting at their desk.

[The Adversary]

>just like Jasper does to himself.
No he doesn't. He's tracing over the number that's already there.

[Glazarus]

>just like Jasper does to himself.
No he doesn't. He's tracing over the number that's already there.

He is using a sharp candle... maybe it's just a graphical problem to add the numbers while writing. Maybe the intention is that he IS writing. Anyway, it does have credability with the reallife cases I mentioned. The cause of death may not be as we see them in Walters world.
The numbers can also be selfinflicted... I think it's more interesting if they are, because a wound that appear out of nowhere is more of a deus ex machina.

[The Adversary]

>maybe it's just a graphical problem to add the numbers while writing.
"What if's" don't fly. Jasper is not carving it into himself.

>a wound that appear out of nowhere is more of a deus ex machina.
They don't appear out of nowhere: Walter does it.

[Glazarus]

"What if's" don't fly. Jasper is not carving it into himself. "
ACtually, you said something similair when countering another theory I wrote. The one about the "snow" in Sh1. "Because of hardware limitations" you said... so why can't I say the same thing?

"They don't appear out of nowhere: Walter does it."
Walter does it, yes, in HIS world. The reason they appear in reality is selfinfliction.
I meant that they appear out of nowhere in REALITY... which I think is a deus ex.
Thats why I aimed for a more credability solution, thus, controlled in unreality, selfinflicted in reality. It's like sleepwalking, but not under your bodies control... it's under Walters control.

[Anonymous]

Now, wait a minute. Wounds created in Otherworld, whether Walter's or something else, don't need to have a counterpart cause in reality - Walter's Otherworld is strong enough for injuries to exist independent of other causes.
Even if it's pretty deep, a person could easily survive numbers carved into their flesh in meaty areas such as chest, back or breasts. Take your standard cutter for example...not meaning to offend anyone...there have been much worse wounds in vein-rich areas, such as wrists, that people have easily still survived without medical attention.
Jasper may have carved the number into his own flesh while on fire, but what about Eileen? Could she possibly write on her own back like that? I think that'd be pretty amazing. On the other hand I can't see any reason for Jasper to trace over the numbers, so...

[The Adversary]

>you said something similair when countering another theory I wrote.
Because in Silent Hill 1, the fog was implemented because of hardware limitations. That's a fact.

>a person could easily survive numbers carved into their flesh
I'm not implying that those wounds are what killed the victims. The first half of the victims were all killed in very physical methods: bludgeoning, gunshot wounds, et cetera; the second half of the Ritual's victims, rather, were all killed in preternatural ways. However, they, unlike the first ten victims, died in reality, and their bodies were found as they were; the second ten victims died in Walter's reality instead, while the victims were asleep/unconscious. The only wounds the police mention are the numbers carved into their bodies--that's what I meant when I said the physical wounds that are visible are those of the numbers, made-so by Walter Sullivan.

[Anonymous]

Hmmm. So you're saying that Walter deliberately causes the numbers to be visible in reality, excluding (also intentionally) the majority of the wounds which actually killed them? Very interesting.
His world, his rules...

[Glazarus]

"Because in Silent Hill 1, the fog was implemented because of hardware limitations. That's a fact."
Which is exactly the wrong thing I pointed at... I talked about the snow, not the fog.

"made-so by Walter Sullivan."
I totally agree that tehse wounds are Walters doings, but the cause for them to appear in reality is mroe interesting in the way of sleepwalking in control of another. So, the "real" carvings were selfinflicted, while the one who "made" them were, the "man inside", Walter.

[The Adversary]

>So, the "real" carvings were selfinflicted
No, Walter Sullivan did them in reality; Walter has the ability to traverse between reality & unreality. "There were no clues. Almost as if a ghost were responsible." [paraphrase] Like Raithien said: It would be impossible for the victims to carve the numbers into themselves in reality simply because of where they were carved: In the forehead, on the stomach, on the back, across the chest.