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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Lucid dream
     
         
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Missing since: 14 Oct 2004
Notes left: 2132
Last seen at: In the Cave of Rendezvous
We know that the world we explore is Walters dreamworld. But the nature of those worlds are a little different. They act out as Lucid dreams, but at the same time they aren't.
A lucid dream is when a person is aware of his/her own sleep, and gets full control over the dreamworld. Some people have these their entire life, while other might only have one in a lifetime.
Walter is aware of his world, due to his agenda. He knows where he is and have no trouble traveling through them all. The difference here is that Walter also attacks enemies and they attack him. Now, in a lucid dream this wouldn't happen. He would have been able to just snap his fingers and change a mutilated dog into a big bunch of flowers.

From what we could read in journals and books, the result of the ten hearts sacrifice is that the person doing it, gets the "key" to the world of Gods. (or something like that).
The dreamworld is actually a mix of Walters constant lucid dream and the kingdom of the Gods.

Now what is Walters purpose in this dreamworld?
If you think of Valtiel in Sh3, then it explaines it all. Walter is acting out as Valtiel.
He is making sure that Eileen and Henry gets to the final confrontation and their purpose fulfilled.
So is he Valtiel? Probably not, but when he get access to the kingdom of Gods, he become sort of a subgod. Like Valtiel is a working hand for God.
The reason he attacks you is to keep you moving... to let you believe that if you do not continue, you will die. In Silent Hill 3, the God must be born from hatred and blood. The way you get to the final confrontation in Sh4 is the same. With bloodstained hands.

Walters world is like a lucid dream level 2. Where you have so much control that you could drag other into it. And you need godly powers to be able to create such a place.

Like wormholes and timetravel, there is one place for one end of the portal and one end for the other. The whole ashfield hights is the otherside of that portal.
Braintree talks about a "hole", so the hole in your appartment is not entire uniqe.


Ok, not really much answers, but a few to become more...

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 05 Jul 2005
Notes left: 2174
Last seen at: Plus Forty Seven Degrees 56' 37" Minus Sixteen Degrees 51' 08"
Very interesting. BUT for a lucid dream to happen, for you to have total control of it, you must go through some sort of therapy (?). Heard this somewhere, about how to have sex with someone in your dreams and you´re controling everything, weird.

And that kind of stuff doesn´t make much sense to me: walter attacking his creations (or, are those creations really from him?) if he made those things, why attacking? For fun? That would be stupid. Yet, he´s a psycho. Maybe only when he has completed the whole 21 sacraments business, he will have total control of it (remeber in the begining of the game, that old article about the other world? There were some parts missing, probably saying something about it).

Anyways, good point, agree with almost everything!

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 14 Oct 2004
Notes left: 2132
Last seen at: In the Cave of Rendezvous
I think it has to do with guilt. But what makes the enemies to be inside his dreamworld is his own killing. We have two catagories of enemies. The first is his victims. Everyone he kills is "living" in his kingdom.
Then we have a more subconscious catagory, where things like "greedy worm" and those rubberfaces (whatever they are called). These seems to emerge from little walters fears of adults and animals. So the dreamkingdom is a construct of both big Walter and Little Walter, but at the same time, they are one and the same.
It is only different parts of Walter wanting the same thing.

But think about the two catagories. I have never seen Walter attacking the "victim" catagory, but almost every "fear" catagory is attacking him.

It may be that little Walters creations is attacking big walter and big walters victims is attacking little walter. I don't think little walter want to kill anyone, but he want to see his mother again. So little Walter and big Walter is the same will, but built up in two different ways that fight against each other.

As for the lucid dream... no therapy is needed. Hypnos is a result of special treatment, but a lucid dream is something that is different from person to person.
Seems to have something to do with wich level of deep REM sleep one have.
The deeper REM, the less you have lucid dreams... the lighter REM sleep the better your chances get to have a lucid dream.
It's not proven yet, but no one really knows why some dream lucid dreams frequently and others nothing at all. It's one of those dreammysteries, yet to be explained with science.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 05 Jul 2005
Notes left: 2174
Last seen at: Plus Forty Seven Degrees 56' 37" Minus Sixteen Degrees 51' 08"
Glazarus wrote:
It may be that little Walters creations is attacking big walter and big walters victims is attacking little walter. I don't think little walter want to kill anyone, but he want to see his mother again. So little Walter and big Walter is the same will, but built up in two different ways that fight against each other.


That way it makes perfect sense, but still, Walter should have been able to do something about those "flaws", but on the other hand it´s kinda helping Henry to move on, like you said, so it makes sense either way.

For the lucid dreams part, I forgot to mention that everyone is able to do so, as long as you´re on that sort of weird therapy. Yeah, some ppl are born with that gift, others need that therapy. I´m gonna try someday...or not...that might be weird as shit. Controling a fake reality...

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 14 Oct 2004
Notes left: 2132
Last seen at: In the Cave of Rendezvous
I'm using my dreams when I make movies... that way I control my reality :-D

Walter have control, it's just that, if you are a dictator and control a country, the people is still there and could rebel.
Or think of it as this... the flaws is a part of him, not the world.
Actually, the flaws are little Walters creations, the fears from his childhood.
Those creations haunt big Walter because it's part of his subconcious.
The victims are guilt, while the fears are from his childhood. They just don't go away. Actually, the whole world that Walter is lucidly dreaming is based in memories and most of them are from his childhood.

Walter is the lucid dreamer, but most creations are little Walters.
It may even be that the "fear" side of enemies are created by little Walter to protect himself against big Walter. Little Walter is unaware that big Walter is himself. Thats why he gets suprised when big Walter says his name.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 19 Jun 2004
Notes left: 76
Last seen at: MSU
Piranha wrote:
Glazarus wrote:
It may be that little Walters creations is attacking big walter and big walters victims is attacking little walter. I don't think little walter want to kill anyone, but he want to see his mother again. So little Walter and big Walter is the same will, but built up in two different ways that fight against each other.


That way it makes perfect sense, but still, Walter should have been able to do something about those "flaws", but on the other hand it´s kinda helping Henry to move on, like you said, so it makes sense either way.

For the lucid dreams part, I forgot to mention that everyone is able to do so, as long as you´re on that sort of weird therapy. Yeah, some ppl are born with that gift, others need that therapy. I´m gonna try someday...or not...that might be weird as shit. Controling a fake reality...



It's not that weird feeling. It's funny how at least for me, some things like impending death are exhilirating and fun and other things like missing band practice are terrifying. Anyways, my lucid dreams all generally amount to me reasoning due to certain discrepencies in logic and then I just prove to other people it's a dream by shifting things up a bit.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Jul 2009
Notes left: 3535
The Kingdom of the Gods? That's interesting, and new. If that's the case, then why wasn't God encountered in Silent Hill 4?


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Because the summoning wasn't completed; it required the deaths of Eileen and Henry. That's what the 21 Sacraments does.

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I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2009
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whats interesting is you never see walter interact or even acknowlegde the existence of the enemies/creatures....its like a part of his conscious mind that manifested itself into the monsters...so, its kinda atwist

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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
>you never see walter interact or even acknowlegde the existence of the enemies/creatures
False. In numerous instances, in numerous ares, Walter can be seen killing the monsters.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Jul 2009
Notes left: 3535
This has to be my favorite Order ritual so far.

And I've tried various times to Lucid Dream, but I just fail at it. The experience is breathtaking and exciting, according to some of my friends and siblings. I'm very jealous at the moment.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 26 Apr 2009
Notes left: 444
MMY wrote:
>you never see walter interact or even acknowlegde the existence of the enemies/creatures
False. In numerous instances, in numerous ares, Walter can be seen killing the monsters.


Indeed, I have at numerous occasions have gotten past Walter in the forest and Water Prison just because of the monsters distracting him. Hell, stomped them for him, had Henry right there, and he just walked off to kill more buzzers.

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Most people say Henry's a pervert because of looking through the peephole to Eileen's room, but here's the thing: Your not required to do that, it's the players choice.
So whose the pervert now :P?

((Apparently you can OD on Green Tea...And it's painful.))


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