Room 202, Blue Creek Apartment

Post by **Brian** » 10 Dec 2005

(the butterfly room) There's sort of a screen door James can't go through in that room. He looks at something in there. When you come back to the room later, the butterflies are out flying around. At this point, James doesn't notice anything past the screen door. Does anybody know what's behind the screen door? The camera doesn't focus on it.

Post by **The Adversary** » 10 Dec 2005

There's a health drink on the other side that you can pick up. Upon doing so, he won't look at what's no longer there. The moths--not butterfly's; the moths killed the butterfly that's lying on the bed--will encircle James as soon as he walks into the bedroom, and will continue to do so as long as the flashlight is on.

Post by **Brian** » 10 Dec 2005

I didn't pick the health drink up. I took a better look, and it's a bathroom. How do I get in there?

Post by **The Adversary** » 10 Dec 2005

You can't get in the bathroom.

Post by **Glazarus** » 10 Dec 2005

I think I lost some health when I was in there on hard mode... don't remember if it's true though, but it wasn't enough to kill me.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » 11 Dec 2005

Aren't the moths later referenced by the final boss' long-distance attack?

Post by **Glazarus** » 11 Dec 2005

That attack itself isn't based on nothing. Moths play a bigger role in the story.
And moths are also said to be the deads spirits.

Another thing could be a reference to the movie "The collector".

And another reference is "Silence of the lambs".

The "mothman" himself could be a reference to. (not the movie, the being that isn't proved to exist or not exist)

There are many things... also the significance of the butterflies being killed by moths is important.

Post by **The Adversary** » 11 Dec 2005

>don't remember if it's true though
It's not.

>Aren't the moths later referenced by the final boss
Coincides with an expansive theory, yes, involving room #'s, moths, & rebirth.

>also the significance of the butterflies being killed by moths is important.
Wrote it long ago.

Post by **Biomechanical** » 11 Dec 2005

I was also curious about the symbolism in the butterfly/moth room. The moths kill the butterfly and are later seen swarming about. Here is some info I found on the symbolism of butterflies and moths in dreams and art. I posted the meaning that pertain the most to the subject.

Butterflies: symbolize femininity, grace, beauty, love.

To see a butterfly among flowers and green grasses, indicates prosperity and fair attainments. To see a butterfly flying about, denotes news from an absent friend by letter, or from someone who has seen them. To a young woman, a happy love, culminating in a life union.

Moths: symbolize masculinity, turmoil, repression, weakness.

To see a moth in your dream, indicates that unseen irritations and damage will not surface until it is too late. It is important to pay attention to minor details and not overlook things or others. Alternatively, the moth may symbolize your weaknesses and character flaws.

Post by **Harrys_Girl** » 11 Dec 2005

Has anyone else ever gone in the room and had there not be any moths?I went in once,just once and there were no moths and I did have my flashlight on.I went in and out like five times,but noe moths.

it was weird.

Post by **Glazarus** » 11 Dec 2005

the Adversary wrote: Wrote it long ago.

So?

------------

Maria is the butterfly, Mary is the moth.
or
Mary is the butterfly and James is the moth.
or
Maria is the butterfly and Pyramid Head is the moth.

It's the meaning of killing something beautiful.

Post by **Brian** » 11 Dec 2005

BUT.... nobody knows what James is looking at in that bathroom, right?

Post by **The Adversary** » 11 Dec 2005

>So?
Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Mary is a caterpillar. Maria is a butterfly.

Post by **Glazarus** » 11 Dec 2005

Then.... the moths is probably symbolic of James. Killed something beautiful.

"Wrong wrong wrong"
Care to explain more? Just because I discovered the same thing and you post it in another thread, then that doesn't make me a bad sheep does it?

Post by **The Adversary** » 11 Dec 2005

>the moths is probably symbolic of James.
James never killed Maria.

>Care to explain more?
Your three suggestions.

Post by **Glazarus** » 11 Dec 2005

No, he never killed Maria, but PH did over and over to make James understand his crimes. Maria is a representation of the Mary James wanted and PH shows him how he killed something beautiful. If Ph is there to show him who he was, and what he did, then James could be the moth.

Or else, can you please give an explaination on who represents the moths...
If Mary is the caterpillar, Maria is the butterfly, then who is the moth?
Is the moth his crime? himself? his guilt?

Instead of being vague everytime a discussion is at hand, please explain what your theory is, instead of just saying "wrong wrong wrong". I like to hear your thoughts on the moths.

Post by **Hjartu** » 12 Dec 2005

To quote from http://www.heavens-night.com/maria/indepth.htm :

BUTTERFLIES;
Something you may have noticed throughout the course of the game is that there are butterflies strewn everywhere. One of the most noticeable butterflies is Maria's tattoo. So it looks pretty, right? Well there's actually a deeper meaning to them. Here I will try and explain this.

There is a Native American legend that says, "If you have a secret wish, capture a butterfly and whisper your wish to it. Since butterflies cannot speak, your secret is ever safe in their keeping. Release the butterfly, and it will carry your wish to the Great Spirit, who alone knows the thoughts of butterflies. By setting the butterfly free, you are helping to restore the balance of nature, and your wish will surely be granted."

Butterfly symbolism is also closely tied to the idea of spirits and souls. It has been used in many religions and cultures. For example, psyche is the Greek word for both soul and butterfly. The belief was that butterflies were human souls searching for a new reincarnation. Such as Mary's soul becoming Maria.

Also, The butterfly is a powerful symbol for transformation. It leaves the safety of the cocoon in it's new form. Early Christians believed that Christ started out as a caterpillar and underwent a transformation, or chrysalis, in the tomb before emerging in pure form as the butterfly. This is similar with Maria becoming a person based on Mary, or a 'new' better Mary that is more to James' liking.

In some places a black butterfly represents death, and so, the final boss of the game has a swarm of black butterflies flying around her that attack James.

- This seems to make the most sense to me.

Post by **Biomechanical** » 12 Dec 2005

From the information that I read, I have more to add. Spiritually speaking, humans have a life cycle similar to that of a butterfly also.

Egg - Birth. The time of conception and incubation
Caterpillar - Life. The lifespan of our living physical bodies
Pupae - Death. The time of transformation and rebirth into a higher form
Butterfly - The Spirit. The transcended consciousness and memory

Post by **Glazarus** » 12 Dec 2005

Then, the black butterflies are butterflies and not moths at all.

Post by **Biomechanical** » 12 Dec 2005

No, the things that swarm and attack James in the apartment, and at the final boss, are moths. As I said previously:

Biomechanical wrote:To see a moth in your dream, indicates that unseen irritations and damage will not surface until it is too late. It is important to pay attention to minor details and not overlook things or others. Alternatively, the moth may symbolize your weaknesses and character flaws.

The first time he sees moths, they symbolize his subconscious, unknown guilt, telling him to look deeper for clues.
When they attack him at the end boss, it symbolizes the realization of his own guilt swarming and overwhelming him.

Could it be that the hole he reaches into for the key is not really there at all? Just a tiny little version of the holes he will go into later? The key he gets in the butterfly room is for the clock puzzle. That clock puzzle says "The scars from the past shall remove the nail that stops Time." It symbolizes the TRUE beginning of his journey. From That point on, he will not be "frozen in time" at a point in clueless denial, but he will keep finding more clues. The moths that are seen at the beginning of his journey are like subconscious guilt pushing him to "search deeper" (for the key

) And at the very end of his journey, as his real guilt that overpowers him.