Abstract Daddy - fact or fiction?
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- BloodRedLion
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Thank god.Robert wrote:I know that. Where in Silent Hill 2 have I read this?FBA 6100 wrote:>Where have I read this before?
Well, a good guess might lead you to believe it was in Silent Hill 2.
The newspaper hallway before you fight the Thomas monster.
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If the creature is supposed to be a depiction of Angela stabbing her father to death, then why don't we see an arm being raised repeatedly in a stabbing motion? No one lies still and flat on top of a person if they're stabbing them to death, they straddle them upright and start swinging.
Also, look at the design of the creature.
The 'hands' of the being on top are protruding through the doorframe and acting as front legs, thus making it completely impossible for the stabbing motion to even happen. Arms and legs going through the door like that with no way of removing them are a representation of complete domination of the person underneath - obviously Angela.
Also, look at the design of the creature.
The 'hands' of the being on top are protruding through the doorframe and acting as front legs, thus making it completely impossible for the stabbing motion to even happen. Arms and legs going through the door like that with no way of removing them are a representation of complete domination of the person underneath - obviously Angela.
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What you are looking at is a 'static' picture, one that was drawn to give an overall depiction of a monster. When you actually fight the monster, it makes all sorts of movement. In fact, when James finally kills the monster in the labyrinth, that's when its movements become very erratic.Knick Knack wrote:If the creature is supposed to be a depiction of Angela stabbing her father to death, then why don't we see an arm being raised repeatedly in a stabbing motion? No one lies still and flat on top of a person if they're stabbing them to death, they straddle them upright and start swinging.
So you're telling me that Angela's sense of "ideal father" is one who is molesting her? Or are you saying that the editors were being sarcastic as well? Neither answers make any sense to me.The 'hands' of the being on top are protruding through the doorframe and acting as front legs, thus making it completely impossible for the stabbing motion to even happen. Arms and legs going through the door like that with no way of removing them are a representation of complete domination of the person underneath - obviously Angela.
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'Ideal' isn't Engrish because it was originally written in Japanese. [Risoutekina chichioya]. Wallofdeath translated the Japanese term into English. If anything, "abstract daddy" is the one that could be Engrish.Knick Knack wrote:I think the word 'ideal' showing up is either sarcasm or a case of Engrish. The term 'Ideal Father' itself is strange as a label for this thing.
I don't agree that it was sarcasm. Non-English speakers would simply not understand the sarcasm. The explanation was there to define the term of "abstract daddy" to non-English speakers. We have the luxury to think it was sarcasm because we know what "abstract daddy" means. The audience that this book was written for do not. Imagine if you had to look up a dictionary for a word you didn't know. Would you be able to tell if the definition was a case of 'sarcasm'? And if it were sarcasm, would you be able to tell the difference?
I'm okay with people believing what they choose to believe. I just don't think "ideal father" makes sense in the conventional belief surrounding the monster.
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Erratic movement or not, there still is no violent upright stabbing motion at any point. The top figure is flat on top of the bottom figure the entire time, with the exception of when it rears back the moment before the fight as it rises to face James. It doesn't support the whole stabbing idea.Burning Man wrote:What you are looking at is a 'static' picture, one that was drawn to give an overall depiction of a monster. When you actually fight the monster, it makes all sorts of movement. In fact, when James finally kills the monster in the labyrinth, that's when its movements become very erratic.
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I don't know about that. With the same logic, I can say that there isn't any violent 'thrusting' movement either. How can you say that the monster shows Thomas molesting Angela then? Just because one figure is on top of another? It's not so obvious, in my opinion.Knick Knack wrote:Erratic movement or not, there still is no violent upright stabbing motion at any point. The top figure is flat on top of the bottom figure the entire time, with the exception of when it rears back the moment before the fight as it rises to face James. It doesn't support the whole stabbing idea.
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If we've got two figures laying flat and a choice between either rape or stabbing going on, present motion or not, it makes more sense for the former to be the case simply because of 1) the lack of any indication that murder is what's going on and 2) the fact that the entire room the monster is in is about sex. The scarred walls and the garbage on the roof of the room are all an indication of her feelings of how he hurt her and left his filth inside of her. The rusty thrusting metal cans also aim at the 'fucking' idea. A stabbing would be pretty out of place.
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Well, given the context, information, and allusions provided in the game, there are only so many activities this could signify, and I don't think it's a happy childhood memory of a piggyback ride.How can you say that the monster shows Thomas molesting Angela then? Just because one figure is on top of another?
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Like I said earlier, same logic can be applied to molestation. You're looking at a monster here. In fact, I think you're forgetting about the bloody newspaper found just outside the hallway. There is an indication of murder alright. A prelude, of sorts.Knick Knack wrote:1) the lack of any indication that murder is what's going on
Entirely up to interpretation, of course. I can probably agree that some of her emotional scars were indeed manifested in the creation of the monster, but I don't see why it's just about her abuse. In fact, if the room is supposed to remind Angela of the abuse, then it would make sense that she would want to kill her father for all the wrong-doing that he did.2) the fact that the entire room the monster is in is about sex.
Which reminds her of her hate toward her 'daddy.' And, yes, there is indication that she hates him to the point that she wants to kill him. I mean, she was pretty aggressive with that TV.The scarred walls and the garbage on the roof of the room are all an indication of her feelings of how he hurt her and left his filth inside of her.
But, again, we're talking about interpretations here. Scarred walls and garbage on the roof may be an indication of what Angela thinks of herself.
Yeah, I never said it was that. All I'm saying is that the monster is more of an indication of her guilt rather than her emotional scars due to abuse.alone in the town wrote:Well, given the context, information, and allusions provided in the game, there are only so many activities this could signify, and I don't think it's a happy childhood memory of a piggyback ride.
I'm all for alternate interpretations. I really am. But I originally wrote this theory because of what the monsters means: "ideal father." All of the alternate views I've read up to now simply dismisses the meaning as having any sort of significance. 'Sarcasm?' 'Engrish?' I mean, come on.
The only reasonable alternate explanation came from Nillin, but since Silent Hill Chronicles specifically states that it's a symbol of Angela's past, I'm not sure it's about her believing that she "deserved it."
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I'm not so sure anymore...Knick Knack wrote:The molestation fits with the theme of pretty much everything in her reality.
First, yes, there is a hint. The newspaper explaining the death of Thomas is just outside the hallway. Unlike the abstract environments where any sorts of interpretation can be possible, this newspaper reads word-for-word. Newspapers of today's date is pasted all over the hallway. The newspaper doesn't explain Angela's abuse. It's more of an indication of why Silent Hill decided to call her.Saying that she was stabbing him i seriously reaching because there are no hints at such a thing going on anywhere aside from this mistranslated name, whereas there are signs for it being rape all over the place.
Second, "ideal father" is not a mistranslated name. Sorry, but it just isn't.
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It explained why the town called her. I don't see how it hints at the monster being a representation of murder, especially when what's going on in the creature's form doesn't even slightly resemble the method of murder.
Also, what exactly is making you not so sure. There's plenty that indicates negative feelings on sex and molestation were a massive part of her subconscious(and thus, her reality). The uterus room, the figures of women with bleeding crotches on either side of the walls of the burning stairs, the 'or you could just force me' line, how the Doorman jumped from Angela's to James' reality because of how the two people both linked it to sex, just to name a few.
(Also, I wasn't referring to 'Ideal Father' being a mistranslation. What I meant was that apparently, if that is the monster's real name, then Abstract Daddy is the mistranslation here.)
Also, what exactly is making you not so sure. There's plenty that indicates negative feelings on sex and molestation were a massive part of her subconscious(and thus, her reality). The uterus room, the figures of women with bleeding crotches on either side of the walls of the burning stairs, the 'or you could just force me' line, how the Doorman jumped from Angela's to James' reality because of how the two people both linked it to sex, just to name a few.
(Also, I wasn't referring to 'Ideal Father' being a mistranslation. What I meant was that apparently, if that is the monster's real name, then Abstract Daddy is the mistranslation here.)
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Pardon my interjecting but is it not possible that it could be both interpretations?
The pushing of the valves can indicate both the sexual interpretation and the force of killing someone.
As for the monster.
I feel like it can harbor both interpretations.
I think that it could be true that Angela was sexually mollested and abused by her father and that the "ideal" way of doing with this father could be to kill this father. That part of the figure that is shown above and moving up and down, whether the killer or raper is penetrating with something. The figure on the bottom is definitely dominated and trapped. Can't it represent both events in a way? Both people experience getting oppressed and forced into a very killing submission.
When James sees his monsters he doesn't seem to give us the clue that he sees what they represent, he doesn't immediately. There's always a blur. I believe both of these interpretations can be melded just as the figures of Francis Bacon's paintings are capable of many different movements, actions and different views of them physically and emotionally.
Sorry if I don't make sense or I didn't read properly... that tends to happen.
The pushing of the valves can indicate both the sexual interpretation and the force of killing someone.
As for the monster.
I feel like it can harbor both interpretations.
I think that it could be true that Angela was sexually mollested and abused by her father and that the "ideal" way of doing with this father could be to kill this father. That part of the figure that is shown above and moving up and down, whether the killer or raper is penetrating with something. The figure on the bottom is definitely dominated and trapped. Can't it represent both events in a way? Both people experience getting oppressed and forced into a very killing submission.
When James sees his monsters he doesn't seem to give us the clue that he sees what they represent, he doesn't immediately. There's always a blur. I believe both of these interpretations can be melded just as the figures of Francis Bacon's paintings are capable of many different movements, actions and different views of them physically and emotionally.
Sorry if I don't make sense or I didn't read properly... that tends to happen.
...that all my life I've been rushing up and down hills, leaping rivers, crashing over obstacles,
never dreaming that one day that beautiful thing in flight would land on this earth and into my arms
never dreaming that one day that beautiful thing in flight would land on this earth and into my arms
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